newbie seeks advice on primer pocket cleaning - Page 4

condor bravo · April 20, 2015, 04:51 PM

Yes, necessary to wipe case lube off rifle brass after SIZING (exception when using sprayon type case lube), but with tumbling it is not an issue at all. No residue or excess polish at all to remove. Didn't notice that question 3 referred to resizing rather than tumbling. But if you are reloading for handgun only and not rifle, you will probably end up not lubing those cases at all. Some say that they do lube handgun cases but in the same breath will probably say that it is really not necessary.

Frankly · April 20, 2015, 07:20 PM

Well my universal decapper arrived today, and following today's feedback I checked prices on Internet and found Home Depot to be cheapest for the polish. And someone else had said mix it 50/50 (or somewhere thereabouts) with odorless mineral spirits, so grabbed a jug while I was there. Anything I'm missing?

Frankly · April 20, 2015, 07:34 PM

Condor,

Let me clarify that I am loading only straight-walled shells, at least for now. I have a dozen or so long guns, but I am primarily a side-arm sort of guy.

I don't mind putting a capful of polish and a capful of mineral spirits in the media before I add the shells; if it gets them cleaner for inspection and allows me to resize with less arm fatigue, I'm there.

But I am reading conflicting messages with regard to what happens next. Am I supposed to tumble them again to get the polish off? That seems to contradict the idea some have shared that they want their used brass shinier than new.

Me, I don't give a rat's hind end whether my shells are shiny enough to use as shot glasses. Heck, even a .45 Colt shell won't hold a whole shot of JD anyway. I am driven by pragmatics (or will be once I figure out what that means). I am just trying to figure out the whats and whys of all this before I get too deeply entrenched and find I shoulda been doing something different all along.

All productive feedback is appreciated.

There are a few late comers to the thread who seem more interested in picking fights or putting people down. To those, it would be nice if you just skip past threads that you don't have anything positive to say about...

Thanks again all.

condor bravo · April 20, 2015, 08:30 PM

No, not at all necessary to tumble twice. Once only and then on with the usual sequence of sizing, etc. Some do want to tumble for what to others seems to be for an excessive amount of time. One thing everyone needs to keep in mind when interpreting responses is that rifle reloaders may fall into the trap of responding to questions like they all pertain to rifle reloading, and handgun reloaders, well, do the same thing as if all questions referred to handgun reloading. Sometimes that can result in questionable or conflicting responses. Since you are starting out with handgun rounds, would suggest tumble for a desired amount of time and then continuing without lubricating. Keep the steps to as few as possible and at the same time obtain a high quality product.

Frankly · April 20, 2015, 08:34 PM

Condor,

But if I do choose to use the polish/spirits mix in my media, no harm, no foul, and I don't have to clean anything off before continuing with all the other loading steps, correct?

Frankly · April 20, 2015, 08:38 PM

The reason I am beating this dead horse is that at least one person admonished that I must lube before sizing lest I risk damage to the brass, even though the press can handle it dirty and unlubed... Earlier in this thread I remarked that my USA made brass has been resizing without much effort, but the foreign made crap is taking a whole lot me force on the handle. I was hoping someone would weigh in on that, but all I got was a useless, cranky reply from one member...

Sevens · April 20, 2015, 08:56 PM

If you were to attempt to run a bottle neck rifle piece of brass through a size die with no lube of any manner, there is almost no chance whatsoever that you would do it successfully. And further discussion spawning from the absolute need to lube bottle neck rifle brass for sizing has led to some confusion about your prepping of straight-wall pistol brass.

No, lube is not required for pistol brass if you have a modern carbide sizing die. Even so, some of us use it anyway, as it makes ANY sizing of ANY brass radically easier.

If you poll twenty guys in how they prep brass... you'll get 25 answers.

You seem to seek the PERFECT answer, and I can respect your desire for that...
But alas
that answer does not exist.

condor bravo · April 20, 2015, 09:04 PM

Post #80 is absolutely correct. Use whatever media mixture (polish or spirits) you prefer and by the time tumbling is finished there is nothing remaining on the brass that needs to be removed. I use the auto polish with walnut shells and the tumbled cases come out completely dry with no residue attached. As mentioned in previous posts, strips of dryer sheets, etc, can be added to pick up accumulated dust. Next step is to the sizing die with no harmful results whatsoever. Lubing the handgun cases is completely optional but generally not necessary (unless perhaps sizing something about as large as .45-70s).

snuffy · April 20, 2015, 11:43 PM

Quote:

The reason I am beating this dead horse is that at least one person admonished that I must lube before sizing lest I risk damage to the brass, even though the press can handle it dirty and unlubed...

If that was me, I should have made myself clearer. I was referring to those that use the stainless pin media in water in true tumblers,(not vibratory). The stainless method leaves cases really clean, increases drag on the brass. You can still run those clean cases through your carbide dies without lube, it's just so much easier and smoother if there's a bit of lube on them.

I own a 500 S&W mag. I'd bust my bench and wear my loader out if I didn't lube those huge cases. It runs at such high pressure, the brass is expanded a lot and it has very little taper. Same goes for my 45/70 cases.

stagpanther · April 21, 2015, 05:03 AM

My advice before reloading using Internet homebrew recipes:

Buy the Lyman reloading manual. Read it. Read it again. Then , when you think you really understand reloading--read it one more time.

You're going to need some thousands of rounds under your belt before venturing away from the tried and true lawyer-approved basics IMO.

Frankly · April 21, 2015, 09:32 AM

Quote:

You seem to seek the PERFECT answer

No, just clarity. Some of the posts seem vague and even contradictory. That's why so many followup questions. I think the original topic of this thread and the side-topics it spawned are coming into clarity now. Thanks!

Frankly · April 21, 2015, 09:41 AM

Condor,

When I was at Home Depot yesterday, I told the guy who helped me find the car polish what I was up to and mentioned the thing about adding drying sheets, and he said, "You know what else dryer sheets are good for? Mosquito repellent. Just put one in your back pocket when you're out hiking around..." I found that an interesting bonus...

One more nagging question: Why are folks emphasizing USED dryer sheets?

BTW, the car polish was $7.95 at Home Depot. Cheapest I found it anywhere else was around $12.

Frankly · April 21, 2015, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Buy the Lyman reloading manual. Read it. Read it again. Then , when you think you really understand reloading--read it one more time.

Please take a moment to read my original post.

condor bravo · April 21, 2015, 10:05 AM

Can't really say why used dryer sheets would be recommended, but someone did give a response to that. I guess dryer sheets are the same thing as what I use, fabric softener sheets cut into strips. Always use new strips per tumbling session. Can't think of much anything else to add to the tumbling equation but something may come up. After adding polish to the media, just be sure to break up the clumps, otherwise it will take quite a bit of time for the clumps to break up on their own and distrubute itself throughout the media.

Frankly · April 21, 2015, 10:14 AM

Condor,

Sorry if I didn't state that clearly. The rationale for using dryer sheets was clearly explained. What they did NOT explain is why they emphasized USED sheets. It begs the question: what is wrong with using NEW ones? I wish people would type a few more words to follow up the what with the why... it would lead to far fewer followup questions, but I am just grateful to get any answers at all to questions that must seem entirely pedestrian to you experienced loaders...

stagpanther · April 21, 2015, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Buy the Lyman reloading manual. Read it. Read it again. Then , when you think you really understand reloading--read it one more time.
Please take a moment to read my original post.

I did read your OP--but my advice still stands--I'd stick with the basics and do em "by the book" before venturing off the reservation. By your own admission you are confused by what seems to be sometimes contradictory info. you've solicited here. I'm in no way casting doubt on the advice--I in fact have my own way of doing things--but my take is that you should really start with the basics and "play it by the book" so that you get an understanding of what's going on.

Frankly · April 21, 2015, 10:29 AM

Stag,

I certainly don't intend the impression that I want to run before I can walk--quite the opposite! I see the views of experienced loaders as useful in framing what I have read in the two books. As I said earlier, I am not anxious to blow anything up. I am actually taking this a whole lot more slowly than some think I should. I still have a few thousand rounds of factory ammo to use up, so I am not in a desperate hurry. My latest acquisition-- which came as a direct result of this discussion thread-- is a universal decapping die. I am going to try that out after work today. If all goes well, it represents a completely new approach to the steps of loading as I have learned them so far... I'm excited.

stagpanther · April 21, 2015, 11:01 AM

Understood--and forgive me if I seem condescending--that was not my intent--and many of these people I'm sure know more than I do about reloading. My advice is simply establish a solid basis of understanding built on the fundamentals in the guide. They are a great starting point and many of the questions you have in your mind now will be answered over time as you gain more experience.

Frankly · April 21, 2015, 11:19 AM

Okay so I couldn't wait. I tried out the new universal decapper on this handful of .357 cases. Wow, so quick and easy. Got the polish and spirits blending in the garage as I type this. Gonna run out and dump these shells in and let 'em tumble while I'm away at work. When I get home I'll post an "after" picture...

snuffy · April 21, 2015, 11:42 AM

Frankly, yes used dryer/softener sheets. New ones would have all the softener "stuff" still on them. The stuff is rumored to be a wax that when deposited on cloth makes it feel soft. Some have reported that using new dryer sheets deposits the stuff on the cases leading to contamination of powder. Most have perfume, that makes your loads smell nice--!

The used sheets are a mesh that traps the black crap that inevitably is in the media after a few tumbles. It extends the life of the media by preventing the black dirt from adhering to the media dulling the abrasive action that is what makes a tumbler work.

Nothing wrong with your approach asking good questions. Taking it slow is much better than rushing in thinking something like "how hard can this be"? OR if a little powder is good more would be better!

Just to be clear, I do not think you're in the last 2 categories.

The universal decapping die is a good tool. It lets you drive out military crimped primers easily and will work for almost all metallic cased ammo. if used before tumbling, it will allow the media to remove [U]some[/U. of the primer residue, at least the loose stuff.

Another tip is the grit grade of the media. At least for the corn cob I use. I get the 40 grit from Grainger.

https://www.grainger.com/product/ECO...stConfigId%3D6

40 grit will NOT plug up the primer flash hole in the base of a case. 20 grit will, does, will need to be removed prior to priming. 40 grit also cleans/shines faster by having more surface area to do the cleaning/polishing. Hint, 40 pounds will last you a very long time, or at least a very lot of tumbling in a couple of years.

How many hours for a HF vib. tumbler? I have a 5 gal pail that has the media I've been using for the last year. I have done at least75 hours on that media, still going strong. I renew the Nu Finish polish every other time I run a batch of semi-auto handgun brass. I use a used dryer sheet cut into strips for each load, then discard them each time.

polyphemus · April 21, 2015, 12:24 PM

Quote:

The reason I am beating this dead horse is that at least one person admonished that I must lube before sizing lest I risk damage to the brass, even though the press can handle it dirty and unlubed... Earlier in this thread I remarked that my USA made brass has been resizing without much effort, but the foreign made crap is taking a whole lot me force on the handle. I was hoping someone would weigh in on that, but all I got was a useless, cranky reply from one member...

The fellows here are actually being helpful and patient with their responses,a lot of experience is being offered for your consideration all in good faith.
Now here's what Richard Lee writes about that issue in Modern Reloading:"If
cases are excessively clean,some of the brass will rub on the carbide.The dirt,soot,oxides and oil on the case keep the case from galling the carbide.None of the foreign matter on the brass is hard enough to damage the carbide die."
There's an expert opinion what you choose to do is left to common sense.

Frankly · April 21, 2015, 02:55 PM

Quote:

The fellows here are actually being helpful and patient with their responses,a lot of experience is being offered for your consideration all in good faith.

Yes, all true... and you are pointing that out because?

Frankly · April 21, 2015, 03:09 PM

Not a problem Stag, I did not think you were condescending; just thought maybe you hadn't read my OP because you told me to do something I had said in the very beginning of the thread I had done, and more. Some people find their way into discussions without reading OPs, so my reply was sincere as well... But anyway, I get where you're coming from. Thanks again.

Frankly · April 21, 2015, 03:11 PM

Snuffy,

That's another great clarification. Oops, I had already tossed a NEW one in this load. Now what?

Frankly · April 21, 2015, 04:08 PM

BEFORE

AFTER (4 HOURS LATER)

April 20, 2015, 04:51 PM	#76
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	Yes, necessary to wipe case lube off rifle brass after SIZING (exception when using sprayon type case lube), but with tumbling it is not an issue at all. No residue or excess polish at all to remove. Didn't notice that question 3 referred to resizing rather than tumbling. But if you are reloading for handgun only and not rifle, you will probably end up not lubing those cases at all. Some say that they do lube handgun cases but in the same breath will probably say that it is really not necessary. Last edited by condor bravo; April 20, 2015 at 05:09 PM.

April 20, 2015, 08:56 PM	#82
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,755	If you were to attempt to run a bottle neck rifle piece of brass through a size die with no lube of any manner, there is almost no chance whatsoever that you would do it successfully. And further discussion spawning from the absolute need to lube bottle neck rifle brass for sizing has led to some confusion about your prepping of straight-wall pistol brass. No, lube is not required for pistol brass if you have a modern carbide sizing die. Even so, some of us use it anyway, as it makes ANY sizing of ANY brass radically easier. If you poll twenty guys in how they prep brass... you'll get 25 answers. You seem to seek the PERFECT answer, and I can respect your desire for that... But alas that answer does not exist. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

April 21, 2015, 05:03 AM	#85
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,742	My advice before reloading using Internet homebrew recipes: Buy the Lyman reloading manual. Read it. Read it again. Then , when you think you really understand reloading--read it one more time. You're going to need some thousands of rounds under your belt before venturing away from the tried and true lawyer-approved basics IMO. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

April 21, 2015, 10:14 AM	#90
Frankly Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2015 Posts: 261	Condor, Sorry if I didn't state that clearly. The rationale for using dryer sheets was clearly explained. What they did NOT explain is why they emphasized USED sheets. It begs the question: what is wrong with using NEW ones? I wish people would type a few more words to follow up the what with the why... it would lead to far fewer followup questions, but I am just grateful to get any answers at all to questions that must seem entirely pedestrian to you experienced loaders... Last edited by Frankly; April 21, 2015 at 10:20 AM.

April 21, 2015, 11:01 AM	#93
stagpanther Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2014 Posts: 11,742	Understood--and forgive me if I seem condescending--that was not my intent--and many of these people I'm sure know more than I do about reloading. My advice is simply establish a solid basis of understanding built on the fundamentals in the guide. They are a great starting point and many of the questions you have in your mind now will be answered over time as you gain more experience. __________________ "Everyone speaks gun."--Robert O'Neill *I am NOT an expert--I do not have any formal experience or certification in firearms use or testing; use any information I post at your own risk!*

April 20, 2015, 07:20 PM	#77
Frankly Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2015 Posts: 261	Well my universal decapper arrived today, and following today's feedback I checked prices on Internet and found Home Depot to be cheapest for the polish. And someone else had said mix it 50/50 (or somewhere thereabouts) with odorless mineral spirits, so grabbed a jug while I was there. Anything I'm missing?

April 20, 2015, 07:34 PM	#78
Frankly Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2015 Posts: 261	Condor, Let me clarify that I am loading only straight-walled shells, at least for now. I have a dozen or so long guns, but I am primarily a side-arm sort of guy. I don't mind putting a capful of polish and a capful of mineral spirits in the media before I add the shells; if it gets them cleaner for inspection and allows me to resize with less arm fatigue, I'm there. But I am reading conflicting messages with regard to what happens next. Am I supposed to tumble them again to get the polish off? That seems to contradict the idea some have shared that they want their used brass shinier than new. Me, I don't give a rat's hind end whether my shells are shiny enough to use as shot glasses. Heck, even a .45 Colt shell won't hold a whole shot of JD anyway. I am driven by pragmatics (or will be once I figure out what that means). I am just trying to figure out the whats and whys of all this before I get too deeply entrenched and find I shoulda been doing something different all along. All productive feedback is appreciated. There are a few late comers to the thread who seem more interested in picking fights or putting people down. To those, it would be nice if you just skip past threads that you don't have anything positive to say about... Thanks again all.

April 20, 2015, 08:30 PM	#79
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	No, not at all necessary to tumble twice. Once only and then on with the usual sequence of sizing, etc. Some do want to tumble for what to others seems to be for an excessive amount of time. One thing everyone needs to keep in mind when interpreting responses is that rifle reloaders may fall into the trap of responding to questions like they all pertain to rifle reloading, and handgun reloaders, well, do the same thing as if all questions referred to handgun reloading. Sometimes that can result in questionable or conflicting responses. Since you are starting out with handgun rounds, would suggest tumble for a desired amount of time and then continuing without lubricating. Keep the steps to as few as possible and at the same time obtain a high quality product.

April 20, 2015, 08:34 PM	#80
Frankly Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2015 Posts: 261	Condor, But if I do choose to use the polish/spirits mix in my media, no harm, no foul, and I don't have to clean anything off before continuing with all the other loading steps, correct?

April 20, 2015, 08:38 PM	#81
Frankly Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2015 Posts: 261	The reason I am beating this dead horse is that at least one person admonished that I must lube before sizing lest I risk damage to the brass, even though the press can handle it dirty and unlubed... Earlier in this thread I remarked that my USA made brass has been resizing without much effort, but the foreign made crap is taking a whole lot me force on the handle. I was hoping someone would weigh in on that, but all I got was a useless, cranky reply from one member...

April 20, 2015, 09:04 PM	#83
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	Post #80 is absolutely correct. Use whatever media mixture (polish or spirits) you prefer and by the time tumbling is finished there is nothing remaining on the brass that needs to be removed. I use the auto polish with walnut shells and the tumbled cases come out completely dry with no residue attached. As mentioned in previous posts, strips of dryer sheets, etc, can be added to pick up accumulated dust. Next step is to the sizing die with no harmful results whatsoever. Lubing the handgun cases is completely optional but generally not necessary (unless perhaps sizing something about as large as .45-70s).

April 21, 2015, 09:41 AM	#87
Frankly Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2015 Posts: 261	Condor, When I was at Home Depot yesterday, I told the guy who helped me find the car polish what I was up to and mentioned the thing about adding drying sheets, and he said, "You know what else dryer sheets are good for? Mosquito repellent. Just put one in your back pocket when you're out hiking around..." I found that an interesting bonus... One more nagging question: Why are folks emphasizing USED dryer sheets? BTW, the car polish was $7.95 at Home Depot. Cheapest I found it anywhere else was around $12.

April 21, 2015, 10:05 AM	#89
condor bravo Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2014 Location: Nevada/Ariz/CA Posts: 1,753	Can't really say why used dryer sheets would be recommended, but someone did give a response to that. I guess dryer sheets are the same thing as what I use, fabric softener sheets cut into strips. Always use new strips per tumbling session. Can't think of much anything else to add to the tumbling equation but something may come up. After adding polish to the media, just be sure to break up the clumps, otherwise it will take quite a bit of time for the clumps to break up on their own and distrubute itself throughout the media.

April 21, 2015, 10:29 AM	#92
Frankly Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2015 Posts: 261	Stag, I certainly don't intend the impression that I want to run before I can walk--quite the opposite! I see the views of experienced loaders as useful in framing what I have read in the two books. As I said earlier, I am not anxious to blow anything up. I am actually taking this a whole lot more slowly than some think I should. I still have a few thousand rounds of factory ammo to use up, so I am not in a desperate hurry. My latest acquisition-- which came as a direct result of this discussion thread-- is a universal decapping die. I am going to try that out after work today. If all goes well, it represents a completely new approach to the steps of loading as I have learned them so far... I'm excited.

April 21, 2015, 11:19 AM	#94
Frankly Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2015 Posts: 261	Okay so I couldn't wait. I tried out the new universal decapper on this handful of .357 cases. Wow, so quick and easy. Got the polish and spirits blending in the garage as I type this. Gonna run out and dump these shells in and let 'em tumble while I'm away at work. When I get home I'll post an "after" picture... Last edited by Frankly; April 21, 2015 at 04:55 PM.

April 21, 2015, 11:42 AM	#95
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Frankly, yes used dryer/softener sheets. New ones would have all the softener "stuff" still on them. The stuff is rumored to be a wax that when deposited on cloth makes it feel soft. Some have reported that using new dryer sheets deposits the stuff on the cases leading to contamination of powder. Most have perfume, that makes your loads smell nice--! The used sheets are a mesh that traps the black crap that inevitably is in the media after a few tumbles. It extends the life of the media by preventing the black dirt from adhering to the media dulling the abrasive action that is what makes a tumbler work. Nothing wrong with your approach asking good questions. Taking it slow is much better than rushing in thinking something like "how hard can this be"? OR if a little powder is good more would be better! Just to be clear, I do not think you're in the last 2 categories. The universal decapping die is a good tool. It lets you drive out military crimped primers easily and will work for almost all metallic cased ammo. if used before tumbling, it will allow the media to remove [U]some[/U. of the primer residue, at least the loose stuff. Another tip is the grit grade of the media. At least for the corn cob I use. I get the 40 grit from Grainger. https://www.grainger.com/product/ECO...stConfigId%3D6 40 grit will NOT plug up the primer flash hole in the base of a case. 20 grit will, does, will need to be removed prior to priming. 40 grit also cleans/shines faster by having more surface area to do the cleaning/polishing. Hint, 40 pounds will last you a very long time, or at least a very lot of tumbling in a couple of years. How many hours for a HF vib. tumbler? I have a 5 gal pail that has the media I've been using for the last year. I have done at least75 hours on that media, still going strong. I renew the Nu Finish polish every other time I run a batch of semi-auto handgun brass. I use a used dryer sheet cut into strips for each load, then discard them each time. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

April 21, 2015, 03:09 PM	#98
Frankly Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2015 Posts: 261	Not a problem Stag, I did not think you were condescending; just thought maybe you hadn't read my OP because you told me to do something I had said in the very beginning of the thread I had done, and more. Some people find their way into discussions without reading OPs, so my reply was sincere as well... But anyway, I get where you're coming from. Thanks again.

April 21, 2015, 03:11 PM	#99
Frankly Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2015 Posts: 261	Snuffy, That's another great clarification. Oops, I had already tossed a NEW one in this load. Now what?

April 21, 2015, 04:08 PM	#100
Frankly Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2015 Posts: 261	BEFORE AFTER (4 HOURS LATER) Last edited by Frankly; April 21, 2015 at 04:57 PM.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search