Ruger Blackhawk .357: 1978 vs New

BlackBart66 · September 24, 2018, 04:09 PM

Hello All...I am new to the forum so I hope I am posting this in the right place. I have decided to buy a blued .357 Magnum Blackhawk with the 4 5/8” barrel....I just really like the gun and it will be a great big-bore companion to my Single Six.

My local gunshop has a used “unfired” 1978 New Model .357 Blackhawk at a price pretty close to that being asked for a band new gun. It does include the original box and holster, and does look to be unfired...or fired very little. It has the factory wood grips also, which the brand new 2018 gun does not (rubber grips on that).

My question to folks who really know Rugers is: Were the guns made in 1978 considered better in any way than those newly-manufactured today? For instance, was there more hand fitting, etc.? Or are the newest guns made on the latest machines considered superior to those Blackhawks made 40 years ago? Thanks for your thoughts....again, the price difference is not enough to sway me on its own.

Drm50 · September 24, 2018, 06:58 PM

I will tell you this, I was in business back then and sold a bunch of Ruger BHs.
You didn't hear very many if any, stories of Rugers going back to Customer Service. Actually I quit buying Ruger SAs when they went to new model, with
the exception of a 357/9mm I bought for my Dad.

Ruga Booga · September 24, 2018, 07:06 PM

I had two 1978 Ruger super blackhawks 44 mag. One pre warning and one post. Pre warning was well worn cosmetically but was very tight mechanically. Other was in near mint condition and also very tight. Both shot very well. All I have to compare it to is a 1992 model super blackhawk hunter model and that was also a very nice gun. In my opinion a brand new 78 model is worth just as much as a brand new one. I say, the older the better

BBarn · September 24, 2018, 07:12 PM

I'm not aware of any major design changes in the 357 Backhawk between 1978 and 2018. I imagine some of the tooling/machinery/methods have changed, as well as the factory location. Can't say which might be better, or in what way.

tallball · September 24, 2018, 09:50 PM

You might be able to talk him down a little bit on the price of the used one. The Ruger "non warranty" would be the same either way, if I understand correctly.

I have one Ruger DA revolver from 1970, three others from the later 70's or 80's, and one I bought new about five years ago. My FiL bought one brand-new a few months ago. All of them work just fine.

They're my favorite handguns out of many.

Driftwood Johnson · September 25, 2018, 09:39 AM

Howdy

Regarding hand fitting, one of the hallmarks of Ruger designs has always been to design the parts so that almost no hand fitting was necessary. Hand fitting adds to the cost of manufacture, Ruger was brilliant at driving the cost out of manufacturing. This cannot be said of other brands such as Colt or Smith and Wesson, except for the newest S&W designs which are made with MIM parts.

I bought this 45 Colt/45ACP Convertible Blackhawk brand-spanky new in 1975. So it is just a few years older than the one you are looking at. Has always functioned perfectly, but like I say, no hand fitting involved in the manufacture. I have had it apart lots of times and would have seen if any parts were hand fitted. A trained monkey could almost assemble these, the parts go right from the parts bins into the gun.

An 'original model' 45 Colt Vaquero made in 1994. Only real difference from the earlier Blackhawk is the shape of the frame, the 'color case' finish, and the grip frame and ejector housing are made of steel rather than aluminum. The grips are rosewood rather than walnut. The cylinder base pin is an aftermarket part. Inside, the parts are virtually the same as the earlier Blackhawk. Again, no hand fitting needed.

A 45 Colt New Vaquero made just a few years ago.

A 357 Magnum New Vaquero made in 2006. While there are a lot more parts inside than a Colt or clone, there is no hand fitting required to assemble one. They just get slapped together.

A Three Screw Single Six from 1963. It's nice to have them, but Ruger boxes are not collectable. Smith and Wesson boxes are collectable. Any dealer who tries to tell you a used Ruger is more valuable with the box is just trying to get a few more bucks out of you. You can find used holsters in the bargain bin at lots of gun shops for $10.

By the way. Ruger marketed the grips on their guns a while back as rubber. They were referring to the old hard rubber grips that came on a lot of old guns many years ago. Those really were hard rubber. Ruger grips are injection molded plastic.

The grips on this Smith and Wesson New Model Number Three, which shipped in 1896, are hard rubber.

BlackBart66 · September 25, 2018, 09:56 AM

Thanks for the great comments and analysis. It would seem from the comments that there are no significant differences between a 1978 Blackhawk and a 2018 new off-the-shelf one regardi construction, function or accuracy. I like the idea of an older gun, all things being equal. This one will be a shooter, not a safe queen. Have the sights changed since 1978? I know they were adjustable then and are adjustable now, but wondering if the rear sight is a different construction...? I seem to remember hearing about some rear sight ears shooting lose on some earlier Ruger guns, but I admit I could be mistaken.

Bob Wright · September 25, 2018, 09:58 AM

So far as I know, the only difference is in materials ~ older guns have carbon steel hammers and triggers, and aluminum alloy rear sight bases. New gun have carbon steel rear sights and stainless steel innards.

All of which matters not a whit, other than personal preference.

Bob Wright

Driftwood Johnson · September 25, 2018, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Have the sights changed since 1978? I know they were adjustable then and are adjustable now, but wondering if the rear sight is a different construction...? I seem to remember hearing about some rear sight ears shooting lose on some earlier Ruger guns, but I admit I could be mistaken.

Howdy Again

I have not bought a new Blackhawk since 1975, but I doubt the rear sights have changed much.

Rear sight ears shooting loose?

You may be thinking about the old Flat Top Three Screws. That is going back a long way. This is a 44 Mag Flat Top Three Screw made in 1958. They were called Flat Tops because there were no raised ears on the frame to protect the rear sight. The top strap was flat, the rear sight was screwed into a groove milled into the top strap.

This Three Screw 357 Mag was made in 1962. The frames were modified at this time to include raised ears to give a little bit more protection to the rear sight.

Here is the rear sight on my Blackhawk from 1975. The appearance of the top strap is pretty much the same as the 1962 Three Screw. There are raised ears to protect the rear sight. The only difference is Ruger had stopped using the old Micro brand rear sights by then. Ruger still incorporates these raised ears on the Blackhawks except for the new 'Flat Top' models that were offered recently, as an homage to the past.

BlackBart66 · September 25, 2018, 07:32 PM

Thanks for that comprehensive information....so it seems that the sights haven’t chaged from 1978 to the present on the New Model Blackhawk, and that the internal parts for the blued model were made out of carbon steel in 1978 and are now made of stainless steel.

Seems these are the only differences, and things such as the quality of parts fit and accuracy do not favor either the 1978 or 2018 model. If anything would have anything else to add. Let me know and thanks again.

Rifletom · September 26, 2018, 10:30 AM

Wow! Great pics and info on the Ruger's Driftwood. My '76 BH .357 does not have the "Micro" rear sight also. It doesn't say anything. I've shot an awful lot of rounds thru it and it is still as tight as ever. These are fantastic revolvers. Looks like the .45 above.

Bob Wright · September 26, 2018, 04:23 PM

If the rear sight tang has the Ruger "Eagle" emblem on it, it is steel.

Bob Wright

**44 AMP** · September 26, 2018, 06:02 PM

I have seen internet discussion about how Ruger changed the boring process for their cylinders from one at a time to boring all six at once using a gang bore, and claims that the new cylinders give superior accuracy.

I can no longer remember when this change is supposed to have taken place, or which models/calibers it refers to. Have also heard how the .45 cal cylinder throats are all wrong and need to be reworked or the guns won't shoot well.

I have a .45 Blackhawk I bought in 83, another I bought a decade or so later, neither of which has had the cylinder throats touched and are as accurate as any revolver I've ever had, and better than some.

Have a .357 Blackhawk, no idea when made, but bought about 20 years ago. Also a Super, and several original Vaqueros. They're all good. If you get one that isn't, Ruger will fix it.

A New Model Blackhawk .357 is not a collectable item, there's a bunch of them, and they're still in production. Factory box adds nothing to their value unless you think its worth paying for. Ruger boxes aren't numbered to the gun like S&W boxes with the gun label on them.

A 40+ year old new model Blackhawk is just a used gun. Even unfired, if it was sold at retail, even once, its a used gun. Is not "new in the box" could be "as new, in the box" could be called "new, old stock", but it shouldn't be the price of a new gun.

Up to you if the price is enough lower than a new one to be a deal, or not.

44caliberkid · September 26, 2018, 07:45 PM

I'm sure the newer ones aren't made any better, but nothing special about an old one, unless it's a three screw. But don't pay more than $375 for the '78, and they can commonly be had for $350. If the shop took it in on trade I bet they didn't give more than $275 for it.

jackmoser65 · September 27, 2018, 11:35 AM

I would only take the older gun if it was a really good deal. If the prices are close they're doing you no favors on the older gun.

GarrettJ · September 29, 2018, 07:39 PM

I have a .357 from ‘65 that was used but in decent shape when I bought it.
I bought a new .45 Convertible in ‘95, and then a new 10mm/.40 this year.

The .357 shoots about average. Ok, but nothing special. The 20+ year old .45 shoots very well, and the 10mm shoots excellent.

September 24, 2018, 04:09 PM	#1
BlackBart66 Junior Member Join Date: September 24, 2018 Posts: 3	Ruger Blackhawk .357: 1978 vs New Hello All...I am new to the forum so I hope I am posting this in the right place. I have decided to buy a blued .357 Magnum Blackhawk with the 4 5/8” barrel....I just really like the gun and it will be a great big-bore companion to my Single Six. My local gunshop has a used “unfired” 1978 New Model .357 Blackhawk at a price pretty close to that being asked for a band new gun. It does include the original box and holster, and does look to be unfired...or fired very little. It has the factory wood grips also, which the brand new 2018 gun does not (rubber grips on that). My question to folks who really know Rugers is: Were the guns made in 1978 considered better in any way than those newly-manufactured today? For instance, was there more hand fitting, etc.? Or are the newest guns made on the latest machines considered superior to those Blackhawks made 40 years ago? Thanks for your thoughts....again, the price difference is not enough to sway me on its own.

September 25, 2018, 09:39 AM	#6
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy Regarding hand fitting, one of the hallmarks of Ruger designs has always been to design the parts so that almost no hand fitting was necessary. Hand fitting adds to the cost of manufacture, Ruger was brilliant at driving the cost out of manufacturing. This cannot be said of other brands such as Colt or Smith and Wesson, except for the newest S&W designs which are made with MIM parts. I bought this 45 Colt/45ACP Convertible Blackhawk brand-spanky new in 1975. So it is just a few years older than the one you are looking at. Has always functioned perfectly, but like I say, no hand fitting involved in the manufacture. I have had it apart lots of times and would have seen if any parts were hand fitted. A trained monkey could almost assemble these, the parts go right from the parts bins into the gun. An 'original model' 45 Colt Vaquero made in 1994. Only real difference from the earlier Blackhawk is the shape of the frame, the 'color case' finish, and the grip frame and ejector housing are made of steel rather than aluminum. The grips are rosewood rather than walnut. The cylinder base pin is an aftermarket part. Inside, the parts are virtually the same as the earlier Blackhawk. Again, no hand fitting needed. A 45 Colt New Vaquero made just a few years ago. A 357 Magnum New Vaquero made in 2006. While there are a lot more parts inside than a Colt or clone, there is no hand fitting required to assemble one. They just get slapped together. A Three Screw Single Six from 1963. It's nice to have them, but Ruger boxes are not collectable. Smith and Wesson boxes are collectable. Any dealer who tries to tell you a used Ruger is more valuable with the box is just trying to get a few more bucks out of you. You can find used holsters in the bargain bin at lots of gun shops for $10. By the way. Ruger marketed the grips on their guns a while back as rubber. They were referring to the old hard rubber grips that came on a lot of old guns many years ago. Those really were hard rubber. Ruger grips are injection molded plastic. The grips on this Smith and Wesson New Model Number Three, which shipped in 1896, are hard rubber. Last edited by Driftwood Johnson; September 25, 2018 at 09:45 AM.

September 25, 2018, 09:58 AM	#8
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,989	So far as I know, the only difference is in materials ~ older guns have carbon steel hammers and triggers, and aluminum alloy rear sight bases. New gun have carbon steel rear sights and stainless steel innards. All of which matters not a whit, other than personal preference. Bob Wright __________________ Time spent at the reloading bench is an investment in contentment.

September 26, 2018, 04:23 PM	#12
Bob Wright Senior Member Join Date: July 10, 2012 Location: Memphis, Tennessee Posts: 2,989	If the rear sight tang has the Ruger "Eagle" emblem on it, it is steel. Bob Wright __________________ Time spent at the reloading bench is an investment in contentment.

September 26, 2018, 06:02 PM	#13
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	I have seen internet discussion about how Ruger changed the boring process for their cylinders from one at a time to boring all six at once using a gang bore, and claims that the new cylinders give superior accuracy. I can no longer remember when this change is supposed to have taken place, or which models/calibers it refers to. Have also heard how the .45 cal cylinder throats are all wrong and need to be reworked or the guns won't shoot well. I have a .45 Blackhawk I bought in 83, another I bought a decade or so later, neither of which has had the cylinder throats touched and are as accurate as any revolver I've ever had, and better than some. Have a .357 Blackhawk, no idea when made, but bought about 20 years ago. Also a Super, and several original Vaqueros. They're all good. If you get one that isn't, Ruger will fix it. A New Model Blackhawk .357 is not a collectable item, there's a bunch of them, and they're still in production. Factory box adds nothing to their value unless you think its worth paying for. Ruger boxes aren't numbered to the gun like S&W boxes with the gun label on them. A 40+ year old new model Blackhawk is just a used gun. Even unfired, if it was sold at retail, even once, its a used gun. Is not "new in the box" could be "as new, in the box" could be called "new, old stock", but it shouldn't be the price of a new gun. Up to you if the price is enough lower than a new one to be a deal, or not. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

September 24, 2018, 06:58 PM	#2
Drm50 Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2014 Posts: 1,380	I will tell you this, I was in business back then and sold a bunch of Ruger BHs. You didn't hear very many if any, stories of Rugers going back to Customer Service. Actually I quit buying Ruger SAs when they went to new model, with the exception of a 357/9mm I bought for my Dad.

September 24, 2018, 07:06 PM	#3
Ruga Booga Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2017 Location: SE Kansas Posts: 116	I had two 1978 Ruger super blackhawks 44 mag. One pre warning and one post. Pre warning was well worn cosmetically but was very tight mechanically. Other was in near mint condition and also very tight. Both shot very well. All I have to compare it to is a 1992 model super blackhawk hunter model and that was also a very nice gun. In my opinion a brand new 78 model is worth just as much as a brand new one. I say, the older the better

September 24, 2018, 07:12 PM	#4
BBarn Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2015 Posts: 887	I'm not aware of any major design changes in the 357 Backhawk between 1978 and 2018. I imagine some of the tooling/machinery/methods have changed, as well as the factory location. Can't say which might be better, or in what way.

September 24, 2018, 09:50 PM	#5
tallball Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2014 Posts: 2,444	You might be able to talk him down a little bit on the price of the used one. The Ruger "non warranty" would be the same either way, if I understand correctly. I have one Ruger DA revolver from 1970, three others from the later 70's or 80's, and one I bought new about five years ago. My FiL bought one brand-new a few months ago. All of them work just fine. They're my favorite handguns out of many.

September 25, 2018, 09:56 AM	#7
BlackBart66 Junior Member Join Date: September 24, 2018 Posts: 3	Thanks for the great comments and analysis. It would seem from the comments that there are no significant differences between a 1978 Blackhawk and a 2018 new off-the-shelf one regardi construction, function or accuracy. I like the idea of an older gun, all things being equal. This one will be a shooter, not a safe queen. Have the sights changed since 1978? I know they were adjustable then and are adjustable now, but wondering if the rear sight is a different construction...? I seem to remember hearing about some rear sight ears shooting lose on some earlier Ruger guns, but I admit I could be mistaken.

September 25, 2018, 07:32 PM	#10
BlackBart66 Junior Member Join Date: September 24, 2018 Posts: 3	Thanks for that comprehensive information....so it seems that the sights haven’t chaged from 1978 to the present on the New Model Blackhawk, and that the internal parts for the blued model were made out of carbon steel in 1978 and are now made of stainless steel. Seems these are the only differences, and things such as the quality of parts fit and accuracy do not favor either the 1978 or 2018 model. If anything would have anything else to add. Let me know and thanks again.

September 26, 2018, 10:30 AM	#11
Rifletom Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2011 Location: So-Cal Posts: 789	Wow! Great pics and info on the Ruger's Driftwood. My '76 BH .357 does not have the "Micro" rear sight also. It doesn't say anything. I've shot an awful lot of rounds thru it and it is still as tight as ever. These are fantastic revolvers. Looks like the .45 above.

September 26, 2018, 07:45 PM	#14
44caliberkid Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2017 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,102	I'm sure the newer ones aren't made any better, but nothing special about an old one, unless it's a three screw. But don't pay more than $375 for the '78, and they can commonly be had for $350. If the shop took it in on trade I bet they didn't give more than $275 for it.

September 27, 2018, 11:35 AM	#15
jackmoser65 Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2014 Posts: 754	I would only take the older gun if it was a really good deal. If the prices are close they're doing you no favors on the older gun.

September 29, 2018, 07:39 PM	#16
GarrettJ Member Join Date: April 13, 2008 Posts: 94	I have a .357 from ‘65 that was used but in decent shape when I bought it. I bought a new .45 Convertible in ‘95, and then a new 10mm/.40 this year. The .357 shoots about average. Ok, but nothing special. The 20+ year old .45 shoots very well, and the 10mm shoots excellent.