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Old October 16, 2018, 06:15 PM   #1
Dano4734
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Is it me or h110

H110 in my casull is a good accurate powder but filthy. I have powder all over the gun. Is it something I am doing wrong? I use cci small rifle primers and my charge is just fine for the 454 hardcast 340 grain penn. always have to clean the black out of my gun when I use it. Like I said good accurate powder but filthy
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Old October 16, 2018, 08:05 PM   #2
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I always found that when H110/W296 shot dirty, it was underloaded.

I don't know what amount/bullet you are using it with, but that is my notions.

PS: H110/W296 are not good cast bullet powders.

They both require a load close to the maximums for cleaner burning.

If you are using cast bullets, use something similar to Alliants 2400.

Just to note: Alliants 300MP falls about in the same category as the other two, at least in my experiences. Others may see it differently, just not me.
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Old October 16, 2018, 08:27 PM   #3
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Thank you my brother. I am going to stick with the n110 from vitht that burns really clean. I got the h110 really cheap from the shop that was going out of business so I tried it
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Old October 16, 2018, 08:50 PM   #4
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Quote:
...and my charge is just fine for the 454 hardcast 340 grain penn....
What was the charge ?
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Old October 16, 2018, 09:44 PM   #5
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In my 44 mag with a max charge of 24 gr and 240 gr jacketed bullets H110 is clean. I concur that you are likely using a weaker charge
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Old October 16, 2018, 10:05 PM   #6
Dano4734
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Charge was recommended by penn bullets 26 grains of h110 and is max should I be using mag primers. I just using cci small rifle

Last edited by Dano4734; October 16, 2018 at 10:12 PM.
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Old October 16, 2018, 10:13 PM   #7
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Yup, that's a full case.
What kind/how significant a crimp are you using?
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Old October 16, 2018, 10:18 PM   #8
Dano4734
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Using factory crimp from lee i put a pretty stiff crimp so they don’t unseat. Accuracy is really good just dirty as heck
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Old October 16, 2018, 10:22 PM   #9
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Put 25 rounds yesterday and my gun was just grimy with soot. There are three grease rings on the hardcast do you think that would do it
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Old October 16, 2018, 10:27 PM   #10
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Try a magnum primer.
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Old October 16, 2018, 10:30 PM   #11
Dano4734
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I am stumped i use a pretty stiff load of Vihtavuori n110 and it’s absolutely clean. I like the h110 accuracy but black soot and lots of cleaning followed. My barrel looks like a mirror no leading even with all the shooting I been doing trying to get good with iron sights again for deer season
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Old October 16, 2018, 10:34 PM   #12
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I will get some mag primers and give it a try
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Old October 17, 2018, 05:53 AM   #13
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I load for my 460 mag and have good experiences with H110. Bottom line it's dirty. When I load H110 it's a pretty filthy exterior all around the cylinder. For mid range velocity cast I use 2400. For really light coyboy loads I like Unique and WST. Shooting jacketed is less of a mess. Still like H110 for my application, very accurate for "full house" loads. Huge fireball too which adds to the "fun factor" ! I've downloaded H110 about 8% over max load suggestions and saw no real loss in consistency per my chrono testing but the general consensus is don't do it.
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Old October 17, 2018, 06:07 AM   #14
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"I always found that when H110/W296 shot dirty, it was underloaded."

^^^this
I switched to AA#9 for the simple reason of I don't always want/need maximum loads.
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Old October 17, 2018, 07:42 AM   #15
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A second vote for AA9.
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Old October 17, 2018, 11:31 AM   #16
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I have had success with cast bullets and AA#9. It is a little snappier in recoil than 2400 and the H110.
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Old October 17, 2018, 12:14 PM   #17
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Quote:
I always found that when H110/W296 shot dirty, it was underloaded.
. . . This ^^ (+2)

I don't load the big bores; or cast. But in my experience (357/44 jacketed), when W296 (H-110) is pumped up good and firm, it runs very clean. Very clean. But when underloaded, it'll leave behind a lot of partially spent and unspent by-products.
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Old October 17, 2018, 02:06 PM   #18
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H110 usually burns clean behind stout jacketed loads. That isn't necessarily the case with cast bullets. N110 is a very clean powder.

I would be surprised if going to a magnum primer improves H110 cleanliness over a standard small rifle primer. A gas checked cast bullet might be worth a try if you're open to a different bullet.
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Old October 17, 2018, 02:29 PM   #19
Dano4734
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I will try it in some jacket bullets. 26 grains on my cast bullets is a stout load so i doubt it’s too low. They are not gas checked so i can try that also
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Old October 17, 2018, 02:34 PM   #20
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Magnum primers have nothing to do with the bullet or how clean the powder burns. They're about igniting the powder only. H110 doesn't require magnum primers anyway. Using 'em might give you higher pressures.
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Old October 17, 2018, 03:09 PM   #21
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Any suggestions on what jacketed I should try. Out of swift a frame and they are expensive any good cheaper ones I should try
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Old October 17, 2018, 03:52 PM   #22
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According to the manufacturers, Hornady's 240gr and 300gr Mag XTP, and Speer's 300gr Deep Curl bullets are rated for full power 454 Casull loads. Their other 45 caliber bullets are only suitable for velocity/pressure levels below that of full power Casull loads. Sierra's 45 caliber offerings are also only suitable for loads below that of full power 454 Casull loads. The respective bullet loading manuals go into further detail concerning 454 Casull loads.

As I'm sure you are aware, you don't really need a full power Casull load to effectively dispatch deer. A suitable reduced 454 load can be developed using most any of the 45 caliber jacketed bullets.
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Old October 17, 2018, 03:54 PM   #23
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May be a dirty lube too.
Some burn a bit sooty. It hurts nothing, but can make your hands dirty.
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Old October 17, 2018, 04:34 PM   #24
Dano4734
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Thanks guys
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Old October 17, 2018, 05:55 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road Clam
I've downloaded H110 about 8% over max load suggestions and saw no real loss in consistency per my chrono testing but the general consensus is don't do it.
It's not just a general concensus; it's a published warning from Hodgdon. It used to be on the front page of their load data site, but it disappeared when they remodeled the site. I wrote and asked them why they had removed it, and the tech responding said he hadn't realized it was gone and that it was an oversight that would be corrected, so it will eventually reappear.

The reason not to load the powder down is indicated indirectly by all the fouling you see. If it isn't burning hot enough or under enough pressure to burn well, the powder is actually capable of extinguishing, leaving a bullet lodged in the barrel. Since this doesn't happen the majority of the time, it is easy for the shooter to fail to notice the gun has not fired properly and then fire the next round into the stuck bullet, bulging the barrel at a minimum and bursting metal in the worst case.


Quote:
Originally Posted by T. O'Heir
...They're about igniting the powder only. H110 doesn't require magnum primers anyway...
The first sentence is true. The second may be so in some situations. The way to tell is to see which primer produces the lowest standard deviation number in your chronograph. That's the one you should be using as it is producing the most consistent ignition.

In 1989, CCI reformulated their magnum primers to better ignite powders in the St. Marks Powder plant's Wester Cannon (WC) series of spherical propellants. These powders include many favorites such as WC748, WC760, WC844, WC846, WC852 (sold in canister grade as 748, 760, H335, BL-(C)2, and H380, respectively) as well as WC296 (sold in canister grade as 296 in the Winchester brand and H110 in the Hodgdon brand). What they all have in common is heavy surface deterrent coatings that are needed to make their burn progressive (evolving gas at an increasing rate as the burn progresses). The heavy deterrent coating plays a role in the extinguishing phenomenon mentioned earlier. Getting these powders to light consistently through that heavy deterrent layer can require a hot, enduring flame. Hence the 1989 CCI reformulation of their magnum primers to provide those characteristics. Since then, other domestic primer makers seem to have followed suit with white hot spark throwing formulas.

CCI freely admits over the phone that their magnum small pistol and standard small rifle primers are the same primer with the same amount of the same priming mix and the same cup size and thickness and anvils. They are just split out into two sets of packages for marketing purposes. So, if you are using CCI small rifle primers, you have magnum pistol primers already. For most other makers, something similar probably holds true today. The question then becomes, do you want to move to small rifle magnum primers?

The reason against that is the cups tend to be heavier so you need a strong firing pin blow for them. If you have that, the plus for doing so is to raise start pressure to help ensure extinguishing does not occur. This may help address the cast bullet problem which is they are easier to push through the throat than jacketed bullets are, so they offer less resistance for the powder to build pressure against. Hotter ignition could help with that. More crimp could help with that. Again, lowest SD over the chronograph will tell the tale.
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