Path to take to being an EXPERT Sharpshooter/Marksman

[achilles00775]

Hi, all!

Great forum to be at!

A little bit about me.

I dont know the first thing about guns, ammo, nor any of that stuff.

Never held one, never fired one. Hell, never HEARD or SEEN one fired!

I AM looking to invest heavily into learning HOW to fire one, and how to get REALLY good at shooting.

Is there any way of doing this? Or gauging my "growth" as far as skill? I especially love the conept of being able to shoot accurately from long distances.

This will be my new-found hobby, as my fascination for this tremendous art grows by the DAY!



If anyone could help, offer hints/tips, or words of advice/wisdom-- it would be greatly appreciated... thanks a BUNCH, guys!

[Greybeard]

http://appleseedinfo.org/ could be a very good way to get started - for not a lot of $. Highly recommended for all levels of shooters, especially novices.

[achilles00775]

wow!! You're FAST, Greybeard!

[LordTio3]

Achilles,

I commend you on your enthusiasm. The shooting sports are indeed very fun and enjoyable. But I think a question that you must ask youself as you become more interested in this subject is "Exactly what direction to I plan to take this?" While your answer to this may be much different now than it will be 10 years from now (as it is from 10 years ago), it will help you to decide exactly where to focus and begin your skills.

First of all you posted this in "Tactics and Training" under the Handgun Forum. So I assume you are interested in handgun training. Are you interested in JUST becoming an accomplished marksman?
Do you want to be a Range Marksman, or have situational training as well? Do you think you'd like to look into competition at all (IDPA, IPSA, etc...)?
Are you interested in hunting or sport shooting (traps)?
Are you interested in more than just pistols: to include rifles, shotguns, black powder, relic or "antique" weapons?
You expressed interest in "long range" marksmanship. Can we assume you are talking about rifle ranges of 250-1000 yards; or are you speaking of long pistol range of 25-100 yards?
Do you own or are you in the market for a firearm currently?
Do you have any interest in getting licensed as a private citizen for carriage of a firearm or do you think you'd like to carry a weapon on your person for protection?
What "turns you on" about guns, and why the sudden (albeit very warmly welcomed) interest?


These are just a few questions that will help us get to know you and further understand your aspirations toward becoming an accomplished marksman. Welcome to the forums. We look forward to getting to know you.

~LT

[Capt. Charlie]

Welcome to The Firing Line Achilles! You'll find a lot of good advice and expertise here.

First of all you posted this in "Tactics and Training" under the Handgun Forum. So I assume you are interested in handgun training.

Just a bit of clarification here LordTio. Given the grouping under "Hogan's Alley", I can see how you would infer that, but the Tactics & Training Forum covers ALL firearms. Further, training issues need not be restricted to defensive matters. From the basics common to all firearms to bullseye pistol, rifle and shotgun, if it's training, we cover it here.

[JimPage]

Achilles: I don't know where you are, so I can't be more specific. But the best way to get started is with guidance from someone experienced in whatever type of firearm you are interested in. Local gun clubs are usually a great source of great experience and expertise. I'd start there if I were you.

But you have to have some people sense about this. I mean that just as in all areas, there as a few folks who think they are experts but really are just in it for their own self esteem and may teach you things incorrectly. So talk to lots of different people and join a couple of clubs to find them. Organized rifle, pistol, or shotgun teams are good places to start.

Be sure to take a safety class or more. Hunter Education classes are a good place to start and are free in most states.

[achilles00775]

Hi, again all. Thanks for the replies.

I'm not sure how to quote ppl in their messages yet-- so I will try my best to suffice. Sorry if I screw up. lol

First of all you posted this in "Tactics and Training" under the Handgun Forum. So I assume you are interested in handgun training.

Oh... I'm sorry. I just looked at the title of "Tactics and Training" and thought that stood for all guns in this forum.

I'm sorry. I am interested in both handguns as well as other varieties-- which I'm not sure what exactly there are besides rifles and handguns.

Are you interested in JUST becoming an accomplished marksman?
Do you want to be a Range Marksman, or have situational training as well? Do you think you'd like to look into competition at all (IDPA, IPSA, etc...)?
Are you interested in hunting or sport shooting (traps)?
Are you interested in more than just pistols: to include rifles, shotguns, black powder, relic or "antique" weapons?
You expressed interest in "long range" marksmanship. Can we assume you are talking about rifle ranges of 250-1000 yards; or are you speaking of long pistol range of 25-100 yards?

Ohhhhh.. lol... wow!

I've never heard of any of this stuff before... nor ever given it that much real thought... lol.

Wow-- maybe I need to step back and re-evaluate a bit more.

What would you recommend for learning so that one could re-assess what it is EXACTLY they are looking for to get out of firearm training?

Do you own or are you in the market for a firearm currently?

No, not yet. but I plan on soon.

Do you have any interest in getting licensed as a private citizen for carriage of a firearm or do you think you'd like to carry a weapon on your person for protection?

I would like to get licensed.

What "turns you on" about guns, and why the sudden (albeit very warmly welcomed) interest?

I dont know... I came from a really conservative christian background, in which my family used to talk about guns like they were the BOOGEYMAN, and FORBID them like they were Satan's person wand of evil.

So as a child, I grew up, not only scared of guns and knives-- but of ppl whom I constantly were paranoid around me of holding or concealing them.

Well, after some years-- I grew into being non-religious, and I now understand the healthy relationship between a man and a fire-arm that could a.) provide for him via game in the forest, and b.) protect him and his family from other surronding predators.

That's when I figured... HEy.. there is nothing EVIL at all about a FIREARM. It's absolutely HEALTHY!

and that to learn and educate myself on them would be healthy ALSO!

Now-- I dont play any sports or have any other hobbies-- and with my interest growing in this only sport which has REALLY ever garnered THIS much interest in me-- I would like to turn it into an ACTIVE hobby.

And thus-- this is where I am today!

These are just a few questions that will help us get to know you and further understand your aspirations toward becoming an accomplished marksman. Welcome to the forums. We look forward to getting to know you.

Okay. Perfect! thank you, Lord Tio.

Now, to be clear-- I wasnt sure if the term "marksman" is the correct term to use or not. It's just that I heard it before to describe a really EXPERT shooter, and I thought I would just use it to describe what I am after.

Boy, I sure do have a LOT to think about concerning your questions. lol. thank you for your post!

[achilles00775]

Okay. Thanks JimPage.

So talk to lots of different people and join a couple of clubs to find them. Organized rifle, pistol, or shotgun teams are good places to start.

Now, as far as firearm classifications-- are the rifle, pistol, and shotgun the official categorical designations for them.

Or would it include han-gun, semi-automatic, automatic, etc.?

Sorry for the dumb questions-- it's just that it's my first time with any of this. and my family hates guns, and I wont whisper a BREATH of interest to him or my family about this sort of subject around any of them. SO I try my best to learn online from this community.

which seems GREAT so far, btw.

[NYC Drew]

The very first course I would recommend you take is offered by the NRA. It is called

"Home Firearms Safety". There is no live-fire (shooting) component, but a competent instructor will cover the differences between

• Pistol
• Rifle
• Shotgun

As well as the different types of ways in which guns are loaded, operated and fired.

For pistols (handguns) it boils down to "revolver" and "semi-automatic".

For long guns (shotguns & rifles) there are many types. You may already be familiar with pump shotguns and semi-automatic rifles (think "M16" type).
Other types (action types) include

• Hinge
• Bolt
• Over Under
• Side by Side
• Lever
• Falling Block

and then there are muzzle loading pistols, rifles and shotguns as well, not to mention fully-automatic guns (which are generally somewhat restricted in the United States).

Here is a link to the NRA's "education" site. You can search for a class using state or zip code criteria.

http://www.nrainstructors.org/searchcourse.aspx

The course I would recommend is NRA Home Firearm Safety Course, 2nd from the top, left hand column.

Good luck.
NYC Drew.
Gun Guy.

[WW2]

I was were you are a couple of years ago. then one day I was invited to a FREE clinic on cowboy action shooting. All guns, training and ammo were supplied, all I had to do was show up! Well, I had a blast! See if there is a cowboy action shooting club near you and see if they do a free clinic like I went to.

There is also first shots at http://www.nssf.org/FirstShots/ that is made for new shooters. Check them out.

Since cowboy action shooting is expensive to get in to, I bought an inexpensive Bersa Thunder 380 pistol and have taken a training class in "Defensive Tactical Handgun". Had a great time and learned alot! As I improve I am thinking of getting in to IDPA competitions (see http://www.idpa.com/)

I also got a Remington 870 12 guage and took some sporting clays lessons. Again, great fun!

Finally, being anti-gun is not a Christian dogma. Remember Luke 22:36

He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

So, Jesus told his disciples to buy a sword to protect themselves. Today I believe he would have said gun rather than sword.

Finally, if you get the Outdoor channel on TV, check out Wednesday night at the range for a host of shooting programs including Cowboys, SWAT Magazine, Shooting USA, and others! Don't be suprised to see the names in this forum that you see on some of those programs!

Have Fun! Be Safe!

[2guns]

Achilles,

I commend you on your personal growth and evolution as an individual. Dispelling fear induced through ignorance is a huge step forward. Congratulations and welcome to the world of firearms.

I agree with the previous poster that a Basic NRA course on safety and nomenclature is a good start. However, I think NRA courses are quite boring and spend too much time grubbing for money to support their political agenda. In the political realm I think GOA (Gun Owners of America) are more true to the mission of fighting for gun rights....just my opinion and many here will disagree.

Go ahead and take a basic course or two from the NRA then do an Appleseed as previously mentioned. Appleseed will give you an historical perspective as an American. Appleseed will also set you on the path of acquiring good marksmanship fundamentals with a rifle.

A rifle is king in the world of guns. You can do just about anything with a rifle. A handgun is a handy tool but it has been said that it is merely a tool for fighting your way back to your rifle. Remember that! Shotguns have their place and are sort of a specialty gun but can be very functional in many situations. To become proficient with all 3 will take quite a bit of time and an investment of money.

After you have taken an NRA class or 2 then an Appleseed, (or maybe 2 or 3 because they can be very fun) then do a hunter safety course in your home state. At that point, you will be on your way to knowing what you want to do next. Seek out quality training and be consistent with your practice.

As far as purchasing guns for starters, all you need for an Appleseed is a .22LR like a Ruger10/22. They are not too expensive and ammunition costs won't break the bank. You can even check out the Appleseed website at: appleseedinfo.org
There you will find all the other gear that is recommended to make your learning experience enjoyable and most beneficial. There is even someone on that sight who is offering customized Ruger 10/22's that will help you to operate the gun more efficiently. Also get a sling. A sling is essential to good rifle marksmanship.

The next gun for a good beginner personal defense sidearm, would be something like a Glock, chambered in 9mm or perhaps a revolver chambered in .38special or .357 magnum (the magnum will be more versatile and you can grow into using magnum ammo for defensive shooting and use the more economical .38 specials for range practice). Also invest in a decent holster. Along with the handgun, get some training in the "use of force doctrine". It is imperative, as an armed citizen, that you fully understand when you are justified in using lethal force. Masaad Ayoob is probably the leading authority on the subject and he holds classes in various parts of the country year round.

After that maybe you could get a 12 gauge pump-action shotgun for home defense and trap shooting and some hunting.

I recommend you buy your ammo by the case. It is cheaper that way. Of course, you may just want to start out with a few boxes at a time to be frugal.

What I have laid out here is an incremental program of learning not only the marksmanship aspects of shooting but safety and proper understanding of the law. In terms of dollar investment, the 10/22 will run you about $200 and a brick (500 rounds) of ammo will cost about $20. Handgun, holster and ammo another $1,000. Classes to that point (NRA, Appleseed, and a handgun class) could be in the neighborhood of $1,200 if you include Ayoob's Justifiable Use Of Deadly Force. Shotgun and a case of ammo about $600-$800.

After that, you may consider a high-power, center-fire rifle and depending on what you want could go to $600 or more.

My preference is to buy quality, new manufacture firearms. Though with some guidance from a trusted friend who knows firearms you can pick up some great deals on used guns....but you need to know what you are looking for. Cheap guns are not worth it and can get you killed or injured.

Final word of advice, do some research on your state's gun laws. Some states, like N.J. and N.Y.have ridiculous restrictions. Others, like Vermont and Wyoming, have very few limits but it is important to know the rules.

Hope this is not too overwhelming. I just wanted to give you a fairly broad idea of how much you can spend on a basic starter set of 3 guns (rifle, handgun and shotgun) and the subsequent training.

Best of luck

[Buzzcook]

Join the army or marines. If you are young enough join the boy-scouts.
That's a good start to becoming a good marksman.

Basically you start by taking classes, buying a .22 rifle and handgun, practicing, and competing.

The NRA is a good source for instruction, most of the shooting ranges and clubs will have NRA trained instructors. There are also individuals and organizations that offer various levels of training. The latter tends to be more tactical than sport orientated.

Choosing a first rifle and handgun can be as simple or complex as you want it to be. A clear majority of instructors would recommend you start with a .22lr.

Practicing is more than just putting bullets down range. You have to be disciplined enough to practice what you've been taught not just blast away.

competition is the great learning experience. Most of the people you shoot with and or against will be very generous in helping new shooters.
If you get on a team, your team mates will give you lots of help.

The main thing is to have fun.

[thesheepdog]

http://appleseedinfo.org/

Best Marksmanship program I have ever attended. Now I am hooked

[LordTio3]

I dont know... I came from a really conservative christian background, in which my family used to talk about guns like they were the BOOGEYMAN, and FORBID them like they were Satan's person wand of evil.

I know so many people who have experienced this and "come to the light" as it were. My compliments on overcoming a common stigma.

As far as learning and aquiring knowledge is concerned, the best advice someone once gave me was, "When it comes to handling firearms, there ARE no stupid questions. The only dangerous questions you need to worry about are the unanswered ones."

I feel like it is really easy for a new and excited enthusiast to feel like they are standing in the middle of a bunch of "Gun Guru's" and never pipe up about anything for fear of looking stupid. Just for clarification, I have NEVER heard a man ridiculed for ASKING a simple question. Conversely, I REGULARLY hear men ridiculed for REPEATING foolish assumptions that are either dangerous or simple-minded nonsense. If there is any doubt in your mind, or you are curious or uncertain in any way about something, ask. We look upon curiosity and the desire for knowledge in a VERY positive light in our community. And enthusiasm is a bonus.

Also, just fair warning, 99% of questions asked pertaining to gun selection, caliber, ammo, or anything else pertaining to preference should and probably will be answered with the following: "It Depends" followed by return questioning. When dealing with firearms and their purposes and application, Nothing is certain, and everything is a compromise. So be very wary of anyone talking to you about "Absolutes", using words like "Always, No matter what, or End-all Be-all". There are always exceptions and "finding your own way" is half of the fun.

________________________________________________

I think one of the best places to begin dabbling in the shooting arts is to buy yourself a pistol and a few boxes of ammunition. If you can't do this, then see if you have a friend who has one. If not, look up local ranges and see if they rent handguns (many do). Ranges also usually offer beginner instruction courses regarding safety and basic technique that are invaluable to new shooters. But really, getting on a SAFE range, learning basic safety, and correctly squeezing of a few rounds should give you a pretty good view of "what it's all about".

If you do decide to buy yourself a handgun, know that you can find a quality USED firearm for around $250-400 depending on what you eventually decide to pursue. (just to give you a ballpark). And don't be afraid to buy guns used, as long as they aren't abused (a gunsmith can tell you this). Guns don't wear like cars. 200 year old guns are still shooting as well as they did the day they were made in some cases. Can the same be said about a 25 year old car is MOST cases?

~LT

[achilles00775]

Wow!

Excellent replies from everyone! All around!

The very first course I would recommend you take is offered by the NRA. It is called

"Home Firearms Safety". There is no live-fire (shooting) component, but a competent instructor will cover the differences between

* Pistol
* Rifle
* Shotgun


As well as the different types of ways in which guns are loaded, operated and fired.

For pistols (handguns) it boils down to "revolver" and "semi-automatic".

For long guns (shotguns & rifles) there are many types. You may already be familiar with pump shotguns and semi-automatic rifles (think "M16" type).
Other types (action types) include

* Hinge
* Bolt
* Over Under
* Side by Side
* Lever
* Falling Block


and then there are muzzle loading pistols, rifles and shotguns as well, not to mention fully-automatic guns (which are generally somewhat restricted in the United States).

Here is a link to the NRA's "education" site. You can search for a class using state or zip code criteria.

http://www.nrainstructors.org/searchcourse.aspx

The course I would recommend is NRA Home Firearm Safety Course, 2nd from the top, left hand column.

Good luck.
NYC Drew.
Gun Guy.

Man, I sure would LOVE to take this course, but unfortunately the course isnt even located within a 100 MILE RADIUS from me-- lol.

I live in St. Louis, MO btw.

thanks for the gun classifications. I havent had the fortune of knowing what the ones I emboldened up above mean yet, though. LOL

Man, am I a dummy when it comes to gun discussion. I guess, I have a LOT of reading up to do as far as general education involving guns.

Maybe I should purchase a "Guns for Dummies"" book or something to give me a brief background with all the names, like Ruger, or magnum or caliper and what the numbers like (.22) stand for.

any beginner beginner books you can recommend would be great!

thx, NYC Drew!

[achilles00775]

I was were you are a couple of years ago. then one day I was invited to a FREE clinic on cowboy action shooting. All guns, training and ammo were supplied, all I had to do was show up! Well, I had a blast! See if there is a cowboy action shooting club near you and see if they do a free clinic like I went to.

There is also first shots at http://www.nssf.org/FirstShots/ that is made for new shooters. Check them out.

Since cowboy action shooting is expensive to get in to, I bought an inexpensive Bersa Thunder 380 pistol and have taken a training class in "Defensive Tactical Handgun". Had a great time and learned alot! As I improve I am thinking of getting in to IDPA competitions (see http://www.idpa.com/)

I also got a Remington 870 12 guage and took some sporting clays lessons. Again, great fun!

Finally, being anti-gun is not a Christian dogma. Remember Luke 22:36
Quote:
He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
So, Jesus told his disciples to buy a sword to protect themselves. Today I believe he would have said gun rather than sword.

Finally, if you get the Outdoor channel on TV, check out Wednesday night at the range for a host of shooting programs including Cowboys, SWAT Magazine, Shooting USA, and others! Don't be suprised to see the names in this forum that you see on some of those programs!

Have Fun! Be Safe!

Great!

And I agree about the bible verse.

Thank you.

I will check out those websites, and the Outdoor Channel on order it is!

thanks again.

Also-- why do they call it "Cowboy Action shooting"?

[achilles00775]

Achilles,

I commend you on your personal growth and evolution as an individual. Dispelling fear induced through ignorance is a huge step forward. Congratulations and welcome to the world of firearms.

I agree with the previous poster that a Basic NRA course on safety and nomenclature is a good start. However, I think NRA courses are quite boring and spend too much time grubbing for money to support their political agenda. In the political realm I think GOA (Gun Owners of America) are more true to the mission of fighting for gun rights....just my opinion and many here will disagree.

Go ahead and take a basic course or two from the NRA then do an Appleseed as previously mentioned. Appleseed will give you an historical perspective as an American. Appleseed will also set you on the path of acquiring good marksmanship fundamentals with a rifle.

A rifle is king in the world of guns. You can do just about anything with a rifle. A handgun is a handy tool but it has been said that it is merely a tool for fighting your way back to your rifle. Remember that! Shotguns have their place and are sort of a specialty gun but can be very functional in many situations. To become proficient with all 3 will take quite a bit of time and an investment of money.

After you have taken an NRA class or 2 then an Appleseed, (or maybe 2 or 3 because they can be very fun) then do a hunter safety course in your home state. At that point, you will be on your way to knowing what you want to do next. Seek out quality training and be consistent with your practice.

As far as purchasing guns for starters, all you need for an Appleseed is a .22LR like a Ruger10/22. They are not too expensive and ammunition costs won't break the bank. You can even check out the Appleseed website at: appleseedinfo.org
There you will find all the other gear that is recommended to make your learning experience enjoyable and most beneficial. There is even someone on that sight who is offering customized Ruger 10/22's that will help you to operate the gun more efficiently. Also get a sling. A sling is essential to good rifle marksmanship.

The next gun for a good beginner personal defense sidearm, would be something like a Glock, chambered in 9mm or perhaps a revolver chambered in .38special or .357 magnum (the magnum will be more versatile and you can grow into using magnum ammo for defensive shooting and use the more economical .38 specials for range practice). Also invest in a decent holster. Along with the handgun, get some training in the "use of force doctrine". It is imperative, as an armed citizen, that you fully understand when you are justified in using lethal force. Masaad Ayoob is probably the leading authority on the subject and he holds classes in various parts of the country year round.

After that maybe you could get a 12 gauge pump-action shotgun for home defense and trap shooting and some hunting.

I recommend you buy your ammo by the case. It is cheaper that way. Of course, you may just want to start out with a few boxes at a time to be frugal.

What I have laid out here is an incremental program of learning not only the marksmanship aspects of shooting but safety and proper understanding of the law. In terms of dollar investment, the 10/22 will run you about $200 and a brick (500 rounds) of ammo will cost about $20. Handgun, holster and ammo another $1,000. Classes to that point (NRA, Appleseed, and a handgun class) could be in the neighborhood of $1,200 if you include Ayoob's Justifiable Use Of Deadly Force. Shotgun and a case of ammo about $600-$800.

After that, you may consider a high-power, center-fire rifle and depending on what you want could go to $600 or more.

My preference is to buy quality, new manufacture firearms. Though with some guidance from a trusted friend who knows firearms you can pick up some great deals on used guns....but you need to know what you are looking for. Cheap guns are not worth it and can get you killed or injured.

Final word of advice, do some research on your state's gun laws. Some states, like N.J. and N.Y.have ridiculous restrictions. Others, like Vermont and Wyoming, have very few limits but it is important to know the rules.

Hope this is not too overwhelming. I just wanted to give you a fairly broad idea of how much you can spend on a basic starter set of 3 guns (rifle, handgun and shotgun) and the subsequent training.

Best of luck

Wow!! this amount of detailed and clearly mapped out information is absolutely beautiful to a clueless beginner like me.

I cant thank you enough, 2gunz, sir.

this has provided me with more than enough insight on where one would need to go to satisfy me for my beginner years.

A tremendous post.
any further questions of mine on this and I'll be sure to PM you.

Thanks

[achilles00775]

Join the army or marines. If you are young enough join the boy-scouts.
That's a good start to becoming a good marksman.

Basically you start by taking classes, buying a .22 rifle and handgun, practicing, and competing.

The NRA is a good source for instruction, most of the shooting ranges and clubs will have NRA trained instructors. There are also individuals and organizations that offer various levels of training. The latter tends to be more tactical than sport orientated.

Choosing a first rifle and handgun can be as simple or complex as you want it to be. A clear majority of instructors would recommend you start with a .22lr.

Practicing is more than just putting bullets down range. You have to be disciplined enough to practice what you've been taught not just blast away.

competition is the great learning experience. Most of the people you shoot with and or against will be very generous in helping new shooters.
If you get on a team, your team mates will give you lots of help.

The main thing is to have fun.

A team?

Hmmm... okay, Buzzcook Never thought about that!

Can you expound a bit more on what you mean via "Tactical" vs. "Sport-Oriented"? Does one type of training have ther advantage over the other?

http://appleseedinfo.org/

Best Marksmanship program I have ever attended. Now I am hooked

Perfect.

This fits in with what the others were saying also.

Which also brings up another question of mine- was the term "marksman" used correctly in the case I am presenting?

I wasnt sure of the official word one designates for calling someone who is an expert rifleman or fire-arms shooter, so correct me if I am wrong. Or if there are various levels and titles to attaining fire-arm mastery.

[achilles00775]

I know so many people who have experienced this and "come to the light" as it were. My compliments on overcoming a common stigma.

As far as learning and aquiring knowledge is concerned, the best advice someone once gave me was, "When it comes to handling firearms, there ARE no stupid questions. The only dangerous questions you need to worry about are the unanswered ones."

I feel like it is really easy for a new and excited enthusiast to feel like they are standing in the middle of a bunch of "Gun Guru's" and never pipe up about anything for fear of looking stupid. Just for clarification, I have NEVER heard a man ridiculed for ASKING a simple question. Conversely, I REGULARLY hear men ridiculed for REPEATING foolish assumptions that are either dangerous or simple-minded nonsense. If there is any doubt in your mind, or you are curious or uncertain in any way about something, ask. We look upon curiosity and the desire for knowledge in a VERY positive light in our community. And enthusiasm is a bonus.

Also, just fair warning, 99% of questions asked pertaining to gun selection, caliber, ammo, or anything else pertaining to preference should and probably will be answered with the following: "It Depends" followed by return questioning. When dealing with firearms and their purposes and application, Nothing is certain, and everything is a compromise. So be very wary of anyone talking to you about "Absolutes", using words like "Always, No matter what, or End-all Be-all". There are always exceptions and "finding your own way" is half of the fun.

________________________________________________

I think one of the best places to begin dabbling in the shooting arts is to buy yourself a pistol and a few boxes of ammunition. If you can't do this, then see if you have a friend who has one. If not, look up local ranges and see if they rent handguns (many do). Ranges also usually offer beginner instruction courses regarding safety and basic technique that are invaluable to new shooters. But really, getting on a SAFE range, learning basic safety, and correctly squeezing of a few rounds should give you a pretty good view of "what it's all about".

If you do decide to buy yourself a handgun, know that you can find a quality USED firearm for around $250-400 depending on what you eventually decide to pursue. (just to give you a ballpark). And don't be afraid to buy guns used, as long as they aren't abused (a gunsmith can tell you this). Guns don't wear like cars. 200 year old guns are still shooting as well as they did the day they were made in some cases. Can the same be said about a 25 year old car is MOST cases?

~LT

Hello again , Lord Tio.

Great advice as far as finding a range that already rents guns and ammunition.

I had no idea they offered beginner instruction either.

That's great!

Oh yeah-- also, I just got your PM, and am responding to it shortly.

[thesheepdog]

Which also brings up another question of mine- was the term "marksman" used correctly in the case I am presenting?

I wasnt sure of the official word one designates for calling someone who is an expert rifleman or fire-arms shooter, so correct me if I am wrong. Or if there are various levels and titles to attaining fire-arm mastery.

It depends from place to place.
According to Appleseed Specs, a Rifleman (expert) is at the top of the shooting abilties; below that is Sharpshooter; then Marksman. Anything lower than that is disqualified.

The term Marksman is used for Infantry trained in longer range shooting than the basic grunt. Hence why you see "Designated Marksman" in the Army.

Sharpshooters are mostly heard of in Police; it's their term for someone highly trained in precise tactical rifle engagements.

"Rifleman" is a civilian who can consistently score the "expert" score on the AQT (Army Qualification Test). This is designated as hitting the center "5" ring (4 MOA or better) from 100-400 yards; standing, sitting and prone positions without the use of a bench or bipod.

[2guns]

Achille,

It was my pleasure to write that info for you. Your curiosity is warmly received. Better to learn by asking questions than to act like you know something and wind up with a problem. When handling guns the margin of error is too thin and mistakes can often result in life altering devastation.

As you can see from many of the responses, people in the gun culture are really happy to share information and help to educate new enthusiasts. We take it as a responsibility to our community that new shooters are given assistance. In the current political climate it is all too easy for anti-gun forces to blame the gun or gun culture for mistakes and negligent behavior.

Always remember that safety is paramount in this lexicon.

Feel free to contact me with any other questions you may have and if you ever get up to eastern PA it would be a pleasure to let you shoot some of my personal collection.

Best to you.

[5whiskey]

get REALLY good at shooting.

The best advice I can think of is to first learn the five safety rules by heart. Learn them, know how to apply them, and LIVE by them. Then take some form of training (either formal or informal) with someone who knows what they're doing and how to teach it. That's to learn the fundamentals of marksmanship.



Then buy a single shot rifle and pistol to practice those fundamentals.

[WW2]

Well, I guess it is best just to refer to you a couple of videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kGQQ9wjzOw

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jmd6KNQMEuM

As you can see, the costumes can get expensive! Also you need FOUR guns. It is a blast and is as much about friendship as the shooting.

And if you have a horse, or want one, check out Cowboy Mounted Shooting Association's video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iihCQlPFIMk

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE-FthPCsa8

As I read these posts, I agree with getting a .22 rifle or pistol to get started at the lowest cost; and then go to an appleseed event!

Of course, after I bought my first gun, the first question that was asked of me was "Whay do you want to kill people?"

My answer was "I want to shoot for sport, like Cowboy Action Shooting not to kill anyone!" I couldn't believe the questions some people come up with.

[Buzzcook]

I googled rifle ranges St. Louis, MO and got lots of hits. The training is there.

Can you expound a bit more on what you mean via "Tactical" vs. "Sport-Oriented"? Does one type of training have ther advantage over the other?

Tactical shooting is related to military, police, and self protection. There are competitive shooting sports that use tactical shooting as a basis, but mostly it's about defending your self from bad guys.

Sport shooting covers a large variety of shooting. It's main aim is personal satisfaction. There is over lap with tactical shooting.

[achilles00775]

Originally Posted by thesheepdog

It depends from place to place.
According to Appleseed Specs, a Rifleman (expert) is at the top of the shooting abilties; below that is Sharpshooter; then Marksman. Anything lower than that is disqualified.

The term Marksman is used for Infantry trained in longer range shooting than the basic grunt. Hence why you see "Designated Marksman" in the Army.

Sharpshooters are mostly heard of in Police; it's their term for someone highly trained in precise tactical rifle engagements.

"Rifleman" is a civilian who can consistently score the "expert" score on the AQT (Army Qualification Test). This is designated as hitting the center "5" ring (4 MOA or better) from 100-400 yards; standing, sitting and prone positions without the use of a bench or bipod.

Ahhh! Puts so much into perspective. Thank you.

Is the 100-400 range typically what is referred to as the "sniper" range in the military? Or are there distances required for that that are longer?

I'm asking because a couple of buddies from mine in the army, told me that how the drill seargants select who goes to Sniper school/training, is based on some type of test, where if they pass with flying colors and excel in certain long-ranged rifle shooting tests, they automatically qualify as a sniper.

and I was just wondering if this "Rifleman" range was it.

thanks