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Old April 29, 2019, 10:39 PM   #26
raimius
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If the monetary accusations are true, this gives a lot of leverage to NY anti-gun politicians.

It's sad that such (alleged) greed and shady dealings have the potential to hand our largest gun rights organization over to those who want it destroyed.
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Old April 30, 2019, 06:59 AM   #27
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This is so very discouraging on so many levels.
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Old April 30, 2019, 07:31 AM   #28
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who other than the NRA can pull together millions of gun owners? GOA?
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Old April 30, 2019, 07:33 AM   #29
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I was thinking CCRKBA
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Old April 30, 2019, 07:47 AM   #30
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I was thinking CCRKBA
it was a rhetorical question, because if others could do so, why haven't they? I mean there are ~76 million gun owners that the NRA doesn't have as members.
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Old April 30, 2019, 09:07 AM   #31
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if others could do so, why haven't they?
Because the big dog ain't dead yet? (maybe that was rhetorical too) It will be interesting to see what develops in the next year or two. I'm pessimistic, but not totally so. And I'll keep feeding SAF.
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Old April 30, 2019, 09:28 AM   #32
Glenn E. Meyer
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Here's a pretty straight forward article on the controversy:

https://www.vox.com/2019/4/30/185109...ons-corruption

It lays out a pretty incompetent financial and political strategy. Poor researched business dealings to recover funds for supporting a president who played right into gun control precedents without much thought.

Again, supporting the cause and the mission of the organization does not mean blind loyalty to incompetent leadership.

https://www.vox.com/2019/4/30/185109...ons-corruption
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Old April 30, 2019, 09:46 AM   #33
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who other than the NRA can pull together millions of gun owners? GOA?
Oh, they can manage a few dozen

It's a bit of a false equivalence, though. The NRA in its current form isn't doing us many favors, and they don't get a pass. A course correction is urgently needed.
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Old April 30, 2019, 08:01 PM   #34
Bartholomew Roberts
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Well, apparently a member motion of no-confidence in LaPierre was shot down. The Board met behind closed doors and unanimously reelected LaPierre as EVP. Carol Meadows is the new President and Charles Cotton is the new First VP.
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Old April 30, 2019, 08:10 PM   #35
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I am reminded of an old saying:

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem."
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Old April 30, 2019, 09:01 PM   #36
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Amen, brother
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Old April 30, 2019, 11:03 PM   #37
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Of course the EVP vote was unanimous. They had to send a message of solidarity that they don't care what we think.

In most corporations, the stockholder (or member) votes don't mean anything anyway; they are only "advisory" and the board of directors does whatever it pleases in spite of the votes. There is no way to remove an insular BoD that acts against the wishes of the shareholders/members.

I've seen this too many times with publicly-traded companies. The BoD is a mutual admiration society that acts in its own interest and against the interest of the company it's supposed to be managing. If you don't like it, you're supposed to sell your shares and move on.
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Old May 1, 2019, 03:21 PM   #38
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I agree that a change in NRA Leadership is desperately needed but, over the years I have upgraded my membership to Benefactor and will continue to support them. I routinely throw away requests for money and delete e-mail requests. I've paid enough, it's rime they do what they are supposed to.
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Old May 1, 2019, 04:12 PM   #39
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I have not renewed my membership in YEARS. After the bump stock collusion (not saying they are needed but begins a slippery slope) it cemented my issues with the NRA and Lapierre. I liked Oliver North. I like Nugent in there. Non PC and tells it how it is.


Lapierre getting reelected unanimously assured they will not be receiving another $35/year of my money. Even dangling a cheap nylon bag with the NRA logo on it as consolation. I shall continue to write and call my elected officials.


This sounds like Chrysler and GM, except there will be no bail out. Old Guard doing as they've always done and getting comfortable with the money so long as the money can line personal pockets. Steer the iceburg around the Titanic and call it good. THEN act shocked when she's a goin' down.


Not with my money they won't. No doubt someone from the NRA trolls this forum gauging which way the wind is blowing. Also no doubt they don't really care.
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Old May 2, 2019, 07:26 PM   #40
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I paid my dues to the NRA yet they continue to ask me for more money. Every time I turn around there's another email that asks me for more money. The only way to respond to the emails is with money and I'm sick and tired of it. I've gotten to the point now where I feel like it's just a big scam.

Copied from first few posts..

I was going to say that LaPierre gets $700,000 but Jerrys (Post #23) says $5 million...wow.. No way on any earth is he worth that money.
I guess the elected board approves what ever it is he gets paid.
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Old May 2, 2019, 07:59 PM   #41
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I paid my dues to the NRA yet they continue to ask me for more money. Every time I turn around there's another email that asks me for more money. The only way to respond to the emails is with money and I'm sick and tired of it. I've gotten to the point now where I feel like it's just a big scam.

Copied from first few posts..

I was going to say that LaPierre gets $700,000 but Jerrys (Post #23) says $5 million...wow.. No way on any earth is he worth that money.
I guess the elected board approves what ever it is he gets paid.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_LaPierre
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Old May 3, 2019, 07:08 AM   #42
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I paid my dues to the NRA yet they continue to ask me for more money.
There's actually a valid reason for that. Your dues go to support the NRA Foundation, which is the organization responsible for gun safety, training programs, and range support. Basically, the "shooting culture" we know.

The actual lobbying is done by a separate arm, known as the NRA-ILA. Because of their tax status, the Foundation can't do advocacy, so your membership dues can't be used for that. The ILA relies on donations, which is what all the junk mail is about.
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Old May 11, 2019, 08:47 PM   #43
Bartholomew Roberts
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Latest news on the Ackerman-McQueen/LaPierre fight. It looks like hiring McQueen’s son-in-law to sue AM has cost the NRA $19 million in a single year on top of the $40 million paid to AM - and it doesn’t look like he is any more transparent in his billing.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...pense-details/

Last edited by Bartholomew Roberts; May 11, 2019 at 08:54 PM.
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Old May 11, 2019, 09:16 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts
Latest news on the Ackerman-McQueen/LaPierre fight. It looks like hiring McQueen’s son-in-law to sue AM has cost the NRA $19 million in a single year
Shucks, I'll do it for half that ...
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Old May 12, 2019, 06:56 PM   #45
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I looked at the table summary of billing by attorney Brewer and was astounded by the more than $19 million billed in 12 months. First, consider the average hourly rate in New York City is $344 per hour per a major legal malpractice carrier. https://www.lawyersmutualnc.com/blog...-rates-by-city. Let's increase that rate to $600 per hour for top notch legal talent.

If you divide 19-million by 600, you get 31,666; that means you would have to bill 31,666 hours at $600 per hour in order to bill $19-million a year. That 31,666 divided by 365 days a year equals just of 86 hours a day billed at $600 each hour.

Now, I know this doesn't take costs such as deposition fees, expert witness fees, travel costs, etc. into consideration. I also know that law firms engaged in complex litigation will usually need more than one lawyer working on the case. That $19-million figure is still a staggering amount.
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Old May 12, 2019, 07:41 PM   #46
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I was going to use $500, which would bring it to 38,000 billable hours. But ... in any law firm, not all the work is done by the lead attorney(s) who bill(s) at $500/hour. I'm not an attorney so I have no idea what percentage would be done by junior attorneys and paralegals, but my guess would be "a bunch." I also don't know what such lower-tier people would be billed at. To keep it simple, I just used $250/hour. Even if we use those arbitrary numbers, it makes it an indeterminate equation -- it could work out to a small number of hours by the big guns and a metric boatload of hours by the minions, or it could be a lot of hours by the big guns and a comparatively few hours by the supporting team.

Let's pick a 2:1 ratio -- that would work out to 19,000 hours by the lead, principal attorney(s), and 38,000 hours by staff averaging $250/hour. So now we're at a total of 57,000 billable hours over the span of one year.

Divide that by 52 weeks and we get 1,096 hours per week. for EVERY week of the year. Nobody, even in the legal profession, works 100 percent billable 100 percent of the time. Another gross assumption -- assume that everyone on the team works 10 hours of overtime a week, so out of 50 hours a week they can bill 40. (Which I think is a real stretch). 1,096 hours divided by 40 means the firm would have had to have 27.4 people working on the NRA matters FULL-TIME.

I don't believe it.
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Old May 15, 2019, 08:46 PM   #47
Bartholomew Roberts
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NRA Board member Allen West calls out the current executive leadership, specifically Charles Cotton and Carolyn Meadows, as covering up and not informing the Board.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...ayne-lapierre/

The NRA leadership in question responded here:
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...rs-statements/
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Old May 16, 2019, 05:45 AM   #48
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This is a link to the North-Childress letter outlining NRA legal expenses paid to the Brewer organization. North and Childress claim that La Pierre has steadfastly refused an outside auditor.

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...ss-Letter.html

If this stuff is true the NRA is in dire straits. An article i recently read claims the NRA headquarters building and grounds, valued at 25 million dollars, has been mortgaged to the hilt.

Last edited by thallub; May 16, 2019 at 05:54 AM.
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Old May 16, 2019, 05:50 AM   #49
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it would appear that the NRA will be done in by the money grubbing leadership, not Pelosi/Schumer…..
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Old May 16, 2019, 12:44 PM   #50
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There are problems with the NRA that people with the power to make positive changes are very motivated to pursue. Only part of it is the political left.

For me, I decided to join my state org. I will not join the NRA as long as Lapierre is running it. I have no faith in the idea that I can join and rise up through the ranks and vote him out. Too many people are already there and still can’t. I like Nugent and I can easily respect North, but this whole thing with AM makes me feel like this isn’t about protecting 2A rights as much as creating another advertising beheameth.

Things have changed. Too many people will equate the NRA to Goldman Sachs. For too many people, the NRA is just another scam to avoid in life. It isn’t going to be about lies coming from Pelosi, Clinton, DiFi, Schumer, or anyone else in Washington. People are staring at the phones while driving thinking the only way to stay in touch with friends and family is through Facebook. We live in a world where most people live and die by the app. A huge portion of the population is addicted to drugs, online porn, and overwhelmingly absorbed with self. Who has the time or money to be a part of things like this when there is a six figure student loan to pay for?

Then you have this idea that so much of what the NRA is and does is not done out in the open making many see them as trying to hide things. I saw The videos from this last convention of everyone debating on making the things that the public needs to see dealt with in private. Forums like this and many others really should add special areas dedicated to NRA specific topics. Things that don’t just fall off the screen like this thread will.

You can’t show the world a carbon copy of what tele-evanjalists do and expect everything to be ok. Too many people are blindly following. That makes people easily lied to. When it comes out that people lied, everyone’s jaw drops. This is idiocy that leads to money pits. We constantly slam the left for nonsense like this but are perfectly willing to give hard earned money to the NRA under the expectation of protecting the 2nd. It’s just too hard to see that protection when we see scam artists at the top.
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