Reports of "Militia Takeover" in Oregon

[zukiphile]

Originally Posted by BL

Obviously we’re making jest of what is really a very dangerous and embarrassing situation. I suspect Ms. Clinton couldn’t have asked for a better photo op to push her agenda than if she’d planned it herself. In a year where issues of gun control, domestic/international terrorism, environmental issues, etc will most likely play a big part in the election these Bozos are doing freedom loving Americans no favors.

Newt Gingrich made an interesting point at a lunch I attended a long time ago.

He noted that a lot people think of conflict as a cost, something that detracts from one's capital. However, in politics conflict can allow one to accumulate capital. It isn't a cost to be avoided but an opportunity to improve one's standing in public discourse. Of course, as he later demonstrated, it can also be an opportunity for his opponent to accumulate political capital.

In last year's Bundy episode and this one, some LDS outliers showed up armed, but employed their arms against no one and explicitly stated a peaceful intent. I don't see that as cutting peculiarly against any of the civil liberties at issue, even as it isn't my dispute resolution mechanism of choice.

There is no doubt that some people already hostile to the right will remain supportive of measures to restrict its practice. Is an armed but peaceful protest more likely to make those people vote?

On the other hand, the episode does disclose some of the problems of expansive government in a more general way, and that illustration may help motivate voters who were going to vote against Clinton - if they vote at all.

In a pre-election accumulation of political capital, this need not accrue exclusively to her benefit.

[ronl]

What I believe is happening is that you have a group of people tired of being pushed around by the Feds. Take the water rights thing; the Feds lost in court so they simply put a fence around the water source, which the locals legally took down. Try running livestock without water, doesn't work out too well. Concerning one fire that Hammond started, it was a backfire he set to protect his farm and house from a conflagration started by lightening. Let me hurry up and get a permit before my home burns. It was successful. Fires are used all the time out there to reinvigorate the land, and to protect it from an invasion of juniper trees, which are taking over the land and sucking up valuable water resources. BLM has started several fires just for that reason. I suspect the true reasons for this confrontation may never make it into the public eye. Let's see, who really wins when small ranchers are put out of business? Only three groups that I see. There are the eco-weenies, who think that most of us ought to give up the ghost so nature can continue on unobstructed by mans interference. There are the big boys, Con Agra, Monsanto, ADM, etc who can have more control of what we eat without any competition, and then there are the politicians whose skids are greased by both of the above. That being said, I completely disagree with the tactics used by the "militia" involved, but desperate men will do crazy things. Seems that these days the little man is pretty well steamrolled by bigger gov. with little recourse.

[pnac]

They've gotten some decent press due to their cleaning up, maintaining and repairing the property, they've drawn attention to their cause and, so far, nobody's been hurt. I think now would be a good time to withdraw, while they're perceived to be the good guys, the righteous protester and not the aggressor.

[kilimanjaro]

They just met with the local Sheriff and seem to staying on site for a while longer.

[thallub]

The Bundys and their entourage are members of the so called "Mormon Militia". They have caused trouble in a few states. After they attacked folks protesting the actions of Harry Reed in Searchlight, Nevada, the state of Nevada told them to go back to Utah.

The LDS church has condemned the actions of the "Mormon Militia" and the Bundy bunch.

While the disagreement occurring in Oregon about the use of federal lands is not a Church matter, Church leaders strongly condemn the armed seizure of the facility and are deeply troubled by the reports that those who have seized the facility suggest that they are doing so based on scriptural principles. This armed occupation can in no way be justified on a scriptural basis. We are privileged to live in a nation where conflicts with government or private groups can — and should — be settled using peaceful means, according to the laws of the land,” the statement reads.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...ZFJ/story.html

http://www.bendbulletin.com/nation/3...errer=bullet8#

BTW: Many schools in the area are closed.

[johnwilliamson062]

I can't find any numbers anywhere, but it seems there are actually some peope showing up to join them. Not many, but a few.

[Duster340]

How/why these clowns still have electric, heat, running water, utilities etc amazes me. Let the buffoons freeze, arrest them as they leave when they realize they are not real USA service men/women (You know, true freedom fighting Americans, who are brave and able to survive in most any condition). These "tough guys'" pathetic need for attention is getting quite tiresome.

[johnwilliamson062]

I wonder who is paying the utility bill.

able to survive in most any condition

Isn't US military training for normal combatants like infantrymen now based on a max three days without support?

Their need for attention and the government generally ignoring them seems to be working on the one hand, but it is setting a scary precedent.

[dajowi]

The entire nature of this would have been different if the "militiamen" had shown up with muskets and Pennsylvania Rifles. Adding a historical perspective which may have generated more sympathy on the part of the public and less likelihood of a firefight with law enforcement officers.

[johnwilliamson062]

Didn't work.

Now, if ranchers who shared their views started tearing down fences across the country that might get someones attention.

They've indicated they will be transferring control to a Harney County Committee of Safety made up of locals at some point in the future. There does seem to be such an organization with members, but who knows if they are really interested in taking over the reserve.

One thing that has me baffled:
If this place is 30 miles from town, why did they shut down all the schools last week?

[Freethought]

I'm not going to say a whole lot in an open forum but some of y'all might want to take a close look at who exactly is involved in this air-headed socalled operation , certain known " agents provocateur" and several jack***es guilty of stolen valor.

In addition they've put some women and kids in harms way , a couple of these clowns were flat run off and/or ignored during the original Bundy thing.

Go to the Sipsey street Irregulars site and the *actual* Oathkeepers site for some more info if you wish.

[Freethought]

From what I've read, there are about 15 people at the refuge. I have seen the names of 5 of them. None of the 5 is from Oregon. One of them seems to be a professional Muslim-hater. ........................


****************************************************


Badda-BING , you drove that nail in a single stroke , in addition he has surrounded himself with several KNOWN agents provocateur , a couple of whom were flat run off during the Bundy Ranch thing in Nevada , which by the way was a completely different kettle of fish. And folks claiming military service who never served and then riding the two-wheeled conveyance in reverse when called on it are out and out SCUM.

Y'all will *note* that the Oathkeepers and the *real* 3 percent crowd don't want anything to do with this , and the Pacific Patriots crowd has *nothing* to do with the real Oathkeepers , and con-man Kerodin who has tried to usurp the " 3 percent Movement" , his bulls*** " Idaho 3 Percenters" is nothing more than a scam and he's about as trustworthy as a hungry rat in a cheese factory.

And there isn't any " Oathkeepers Call Out." , not from anyone real.

These guys are clowns , bozos and lunatic fringe crazies

[Freethought]

Oh and by the way folks.......elements of Delta have already been seconded to the area from Lewis -McChord. Make of that what you will , but the sewer rats that started this aren't equipped to handle THAT.

[kilimanjaro]

There is a BLM District Office in Burns. BLM was the issue with the Bundy standoff last year. Closing the office is a responsible action. The employees are working from home, mainly, some that can't are on leave.

The school was closed, too, maybe it still is.

[thallub]

Law enforcement officers and their families are being hassled by the Bundy bunch and/or their sympathizers. People are following them home. The wives and families of some local law enforcement officers have left town. The car belonging to the wife of the county sheriff had its tires slashed: The lady has left town.

Families of several local law enforcement officers left Harney County last week after they were reportedly followed to their homes. Sheriff David Ward told Oregon Public Broadcasting he’s received emailed death threats from out of state, and at a community meeting Wednesday, Ward said his wife left town after her tires were slashed. It’s unclear who is behind these acts of intimidation

http://news.yahoo.com/in-oregon-occu...02711268.html#

[chimo]

Law enforcement officers and their families are being hassled by the Bundy bunch and/or their sympathizers. People are following them home. The wives and families of some local law enforcement officers have left town. The car belonging to the wife of the county sheriff had its tires slashed: The lady has left town.

Uh huh. The now former fire marshal seems to think the FBI is doing the hassling...of course the feds NEVAR act as agent provocateurs, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIZnaYxy4lg
http://katu.com/news/local/harney-co...med-protesters

Whether you agree with what these folks are doing or not...at least they are doing...not sitting behind their keyboards pretending how tough and patriotic they are.

[zincwarrior]

Whether you agree with what these folks are doing or not...at least they are doing...not sitting behind their keyboards pretending how tough and patriotic they are.

You could say the same for the San Bernardino terrorists. Hey at least they are doing and not sitting behind their keyboards.

Following the family members-the children-of police of others is intimidation. Thats something drug cartels and mob would do. Treat them like the criminals they are.

[kilimanjaro]

The former fire marshall is an idiot.

If you think those self-styled 'militia' folks coming into Burns from small towns in Oregon, Idaho, or Utah are FBI agents, you've got another think coming.

No provocateurs needed here, the wingnuts are doing fine all by themselves.

Whatever support the people at the Refuge had with the public is rapidly disappearing, including what little was mine. I said at the outset these was the wrong approach at the wrong time and in the wrong place, and I was right. It's gone on too long and is becoming dangerous to innocent people.

As mentioned by another poster above, they could have organized a regional fence tear-down event that involved tens or hundreds of miles of fences over a weekend, across the Great Basin, and done a lot more for their cause, but instead they chose to strut around with guns and play Ricochet Guevera in a standoff situation.

[Freethought]

Whether you agree with what these folks are doing or not...at least they are doing...not sitting behind their keyboards pretending how tough and patriotic they are.
**********************


Who is doing that here? Show us all an example. And here's what they're REALLY doing , they're making every Liberty minded person , the actual 3 percent folks , the Oathkeepers and assorted others look like crap with their attempts to get themselves associated with those groups.

And given what I know specificly about the whackos , snitches and sociopaths involved with this I'll stay away from the buncha attention whores.

[johnwilliamson062]

elements of Delta have already been seconded to the area from Lewis -McChord.

It is my understanding a US Army National guard unit attached to JSOC has possibly been moved to the area. I wouldn't call that DELTA.

In addition they've put some women and kids in harms way

The kids is a problem, but welcome to the 21st century on the women being there. Most US allies have an entire generation of female combat veteran and even the US has opened combat roles to women. I'd be very surprised if the women aren't shooting back if anything does happen.

Whether you agree with what these folks are doing or not...at least they are doing...

I'm not even sure I agree they are doing anything. They might have thought they were doing something, but they clearly did not plan this out well at all. It is incredibly disorganized, they called for people to show up, then turned them away. Who did they think was going to show up besides people who are fringe within even the militia groups? They haven't really really done ANYTHING to open the land up to further use. They could have torn down or cut miles of fence in the last two weeks. They removed only a few spans and the rancher there seems not to be supporting them. If they had a herd ready to go through on TV that might be something.

Maybe DELTA is there using their NV to mend the fence while everyone sleeps.

I'm pretty embarrassed by the governments lack of response. Unlike Ruby Ridge, Waco, or Montana Freedom/Justus; they aren't on their own land. They seized a federal building. It isn't the same. The Feds are still providing electric and internet. I can't believe there aren't more people in totally unrelated groups taking a cue to occupy similar reserves. Just people squatting. Hell I'm tempted to pack up my camping stuff and build a cabin on one.

[Freethought]

Yeah you go ahead and scoff , sorry but I was stationed at Lewis-McChord with the 1st , still got my connections and my info is sold. As is my info on several of the participants. Some of which comes from directly involved at the Bundy Ranch and observing specific behavior.

[rickyrick]

I'm not sure if this is even a "stand off".... More of a slumber party.
Been following it since the beginning, since it's kinda local to me. But I seen one shot on the media of a guy putting a rifle into a vehicle. I see lots of people with handguns in holsters that looks like they were exposed for the camera.
I'm not sure but I thought open carry was legal anyway.

This is fishy, only because a true Armed Takeover would not have lasted this long.
If they were a threat, the threat would have been neutralized.
The powers that be, are simply letting it happen; the fact that they are letting it happen demonstrates the benign nature of this event.... And the media gets to say what they want as well.

So, use of the building must have been allowed

[johnwilliamson062]

I'm not saying there isn't a chance there are a couple people from DELTA present to advise FBI HRT if it comes down to that(as Waco and other situations), but the idea that DELTA units are preparing to storm the building, as some sources have started to warn, is preposterous. FBI HRT has plenty of experience and capability to forcefully resolve the situation if it comes to that. Sending Delta would be like calling in the Evergreen Supertanker water-bomber to put out a house fire.

[zincwarrior]

Sending Delta would be like calling in the Evergreen Supertanker water-bomber to put out a house fire.

Or they could just do that. Dropping a KC tanker's load on the ranger station they occupied might be just the trick.

[rickyrick]

Skate party