H&R "top break" help just a bag of parts

Mobius_matt · November 30, 2017, 05:02 PM

Hey guys. I am new here but I was reading threads on this style of top break guns and I felt this site had the most experience and could possibly point me in the right direction.
The simple story is a friend of mine inherited some guns after his father passed. Most are in great shape with the exception of this one. From what I am told he was in the process of restoring it. Now that he passed I would like to restore it for my friend. I know a decent amount about firearms but in this case I was just handed a bag of parts.
Any information would be appreciated.

. what model is it ?
. do i have all the parts (missing a pin)
. can it be put back together
. will it ever shoot again?

Any thoughts ???

Smoke & Recoil · November 30, 2017, 06:04 PM

It'll come alive again, (caliber), I have no idea, but it's more that likely stamped on the top rib. Look at the book *Exploded View Gun Parts* it will
help determine if all the parts are there. The only thing that I notice is one
pin is bend (no big deal there).

Mobius_matt · November 30, 2017, 06:42 PM

Well for the caliber I measured the cylinder and its coming up as .33 so I imagine its a .32 S&W ... however I am having a hard time finding the exploded parts view since I am not sure on the model

Bill DeShivs · November 30, 2017, 08:18 PM

Caliber is .32 S&W.

Tidewater_Kid · November 30, 2017, 08:46 PM

If you are interested in restoring it, check with Numrich. All of these old top breaks are similar. I have several of the Iver Johnson's and the parts look the same.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/hr

I would try Google'ing H&R Top Break and look at images. You should be able to match up something. Looks like the 1904 or 1905 models.

TruthTellers · December 1, 2017, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

Caliber is .32 S&W.

.32 S&W Long. The models with 6 shot cylinders were made with a longer cylinder and larger frame.

TruthTellers · December 1, 2017, 03:44 PM

Is there any writing on the left side of the barrel? The earlier H&R's didn't have any marking on the barrel of the cartridge, then at some point around 1900 (give/take a few yrs) they started doing it.

What this tells us is whether the gun is rated for smokeless powder or not.

Bill DeShivs · December 1, 2017, 07:21 PM

Well, Truthtellers- why don't you have a look at the picture, and then tell me it's .32 S&W long? Because it damned sure isn't!
It's better to have people think you are a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

TruthTellers · December 1, 2017, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

Well, Truthtellers- why don't you have a look at the picture, and then tell me it's .32 S&W long? Because it damned sure isn't!
It's better to have people think you are a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Alright Bill, then tell me why in MY 6 shot .32 H&R I can chamber and fire .32 S&W Long? Me thinks it has something to do with it was built to fire the .32 Long.

Mobius_matt · December 1, 2017, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruthTellers

Is there any writing on the left side of the barrel? The earlier H&R's didn't have any marking on the barrel of the cartridge, then at some point around 1900 (give/take a few yrs) they started doing it.

What this tells us is whether the gun is rated for smokeless powder or not.

No writing on either side of the barrel. Ya I was curious if I could use modern ammo. I guess I should focus on putting it back together first.

Mobius_matt · December 1, 2017, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tidewater_Kid

If you are interested in restoring it, check with Numrich. All of these old top breaks are similar. I have several of the Iver Johnson's and the parts look the same.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/hr

I would try Google'ing H&R Top Break and look at images. You should be able to match up something. Looks like the 1904 or 1905 models.

cool thanks Ill check it out now

James K · December 1, 2017, 11:52 PM

All those old guns were made and intended for .32 S&W (aka .32 S&W Short). The .32 S&W Long didn't exist until 1896 when it was introduced for S&W's first side swing revolver. In many H&R and IJ revolvers, the older guns will take the longer round because the chambers are drilled straight through. Both cartridges are very low power and there is probably no danger in firing the "Long" in the older chambers, but the guns were not intended for it.

FWIW, the Gun Parts Corp. catalog includes that gun under the heading "Automatic, Police Automatic" (H&R's term meaning "automatic ejection" or ejection when the gun was opened, as opposed to "hand ejection", or requiring manual action to eject fired cases.)

I see some missing parts in the picture of that gun, mainly the lever and spring (hand and hand spring). The trigger spring is not correct; it may be home-made or from an Iver Johnson, but an H&R spring should be a V type. I don't see a sear and spring, either.

Jim

TruthTellers · December 2, 2017, 01:56 AM

Quote:

In many H&R and IJ revolvers, the older guns will take the longer round because the chambers are drilled straight through. Both cartridges are very low power and there is probably no danger in firing the "Long" in the older chambers, but the guns were not intended for it.

Ah, that would explain it. Thing is, mine with the writing on the side chambers .32 S&W Long, but it won't fully chamber .32 H&R Magnum, so at some point H&R must have gone from boring the chambers straight through to having a chamber throat.

I agree with you, I don't think there's anything wrong with shooting .32 Long in a .32 S&W top break so long as it was made for smokeless. I think the OP would be fine if his revolver chamber the .32 Longs and shot black powder loads in it.

Smoke & Recoil · December 2, 2017, 08:21 AM

I can help put an end to your frustration...pack it up and send it to me, as a gift of course. Only trying to help.

James K · December 3, 2017, 09:40 PM

The .32 H&R Magnum is a modern cartridge, intended for use in solid frame (not top break) H&R revolvers. It has more power than the .32 S&W/.32 S&W Long, but less than the .327 Federal Magnum. The latter is a high pressure round that should not be used in any revolver not made for it. Other .32 revolvers should never (NEVER!) be altered to fire the .327 Federal Magnum, or the .32 H&R Magnum, for that matter..

Jim

Gaucho Gringo · December 3, 2017, 11:18 PM

Another thing is a lot of this type of gun were only intended for black powder loads. I know the Iver Johnson's unless they have bolt notches in the cylinder they were black powder only guns and your cylinder has no bolt notches. Even though .32 S&W short is a low power cartridge, the smokeless powder rounds you get today have a higher pressure spike than black powder ones. Another thing to consider if you get it back together and want to shoot it.

TruthTellers · December 4, 2017, 01:18 AM

Gaucho, my .32 H&R with writing on the side of the barrel that indicates it was made in the smokeless era doesn't have the typical bolt stop slots, it's the old black powder style, but it works with smokeless loads.

Your advice is sound though, I just don't want the OP to think the way the bolt stops look are the only telltale sign of black powder vs smokeless. In the Iver's it is, but not the H&R's.

When smokeless loads are used, best to use starting load charges in the top breaks. I tried some moderate .32 S&W Long in mine and it felt a bit too strong for regular shooting.

November 30, 2017, 06:04 PM	#2
Smoke & Recoil Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: East shore of Lake Michigan. Posts: 714	It'll come alive again, (caliber), I have no idea, but it's more that likely stamped on the top rib. Look at the book Exploded View Gun Parts it will help determine if all the parts are there. The only thing that I notice is one pin is bend (no big deal there). __________________ Sent from my Tandy 1000

November 30, 2017, 08:18 PM	#4
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,978	Caliber is .32 S&W. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

December 1, 2017, 03:44 PM	#7
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,883	Is there any writing on the left side of the barrel? The earlier H&R's didn't have any marking on the barrel of the cartridge, then at some point around 1900 (give/take a few yrs) they started doing it. What this tells us is whether the gun is rated for smokeless powder or not. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

December 1, 2017, 07:21 PM	#8
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,978	Well, Truthtellers- why don't you have a look at the picture, and then tell me it's .32 S&W long? Because it damned sure isn't! It's better to have people think you are a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

December 2, 2017, 08:21 AM	#14
Smoke & Recoil Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2008 Location: East shore of Lake Michigan. Posts: 714	I can help put an end to your frustration...pack it up and send it to me, as a gift of course. Only trying to help. __________________ Sent from my Tandy 1000

November 30, 2017, 06:42 PM	#3
Mobius_matt Junior Member Join Date: November 30, 2017 Posts: 4	Well for the caliber I measured the cylinder and its coming up as .33 so I imagine its a .32 S&W ... however I am having a hard time finding the exploded parts view since I am not sure on the model

November 30, 2017, 08:46 PM	#5
Tidewater_Kid Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2005 Location: Alabama Posts: 925	If you are interested in restoring it, check with Numrich. All of these old top breaks are similar. I have several of the Iver Johnson's and the parts look the same. https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-manufacturer/hr I would try Google'ing H&R Top Break and look at images. You should be able to match up something. Looks like the 1904 or 1905 models.

December 1, 2017, 11:52 PM	#12
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	All those old guns were made and intended for .32 S&W (aka .32 S&W Short). The .32 S&W Long didn't exist until 1896 when it was introduced for S&W's first side swing revolver. In many H&R and IJ revolvers, the older guns will take the longer round because the chambers are drilled straight through. Both cartridges are very low power and there is probably no danger in firing the "Long" in the older chambers, but the guns were not intended for it. FWIW, the Gun Parts Corp. catalog includes that gun under the heading "Automatic, Police Automatic" (H&R's term meaning "automatic ejection" or ejection when the gun was opened, as opposed to "hand ejection", or requiring manual action to eject fired cases.) I see some missing parts in the picture of that gun, mainly the lever and spring (hand and hand spring). The trigger spring is not correct; it may be home-made or from an Iver Johnson, but an H&R spring should be a V type. I don't see a sear and spring, either. Jim

December 3, 2017, 09:40 PM	#15
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The .32 H&R Magnum is a modern cartridge, intended for use in solid frame (not top break) H&R revolvers. It has more power than the .32 S&W/.32 S&W Long, but less than the .327 Federal Magnum. The latter is a high pressure round that should not be used in any revolver not made for it. Other .32 revolvers should never (NEVER!) be altered to fire the .327 Federal Magnum, or the .32 H&R Magnum, for that matter.. Jim

December 3, 2017, 11:18 PM	#16
Gaucho Gringo Senior Member Join Date: May 17, 2007 Location: Vancouver, WA Posts: 366	Another thing is a lot of this type of gun were only intended for black powder loads. I know the Iver Johnson's unless they have bolt notches in the cylinder they were black powder only guns and your cylinder has no bolt notches. Even though .32 S&W short is a low power cartridge, the smokeless powder rounds you get today have a higher pressure spike than black powder ones. Another thing to consider if you get it back together and want to shoot it. __________________ 357 Taurus Gaucho, 22 Heritage RR, 2-Pietta 1858 44 NMA Remingtons, Pietta, Euroarms & ASM 36 1851 Navies, 31 Uberti 1849, 12 ga H&R Topper, 16 Ga Western Field, 43 Spanish Remington Rolling Block, 44 ASM Colt Walker, High Point C9 9mm, Winchester 1906 22, Rossi 62 22 rifle, Uberti 1860, H&A & IJ 32 S&W BreakTop, 36 Euroarms 1858, 32 H&R 04, 22mag NAA SS BP revolver, .44 Rodgers & Spencer, IJ 38 S&W BreakTop, IJ 22 Sealed 8

December 4, 2017, 01:18 AM	#17
TruthTellers Senior Member Join Date: October 22, 2016 Posts: 3,883	Gaucho, my .32 H&R with writing on the side of the barrel that indicates it was made in the smokeless era doesn't have the typical bolt stop slots, it's the old black powder style, but it works with smokeless loads. Your advice is sound though, I just don't want the OP to think the way the bolt stops look are the only telltale sign of black powder vs smokeless. In the Iver's it is, but not the H&R's. When smokeless loads are used, best to use starting load charges in the top breaks. I tried some moderate .32 S&W Long in mine and it felt a bit too strong for regular shooting. __________________ "We always think there's gonna be more time... then it runs out."

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