22lr as a HD tool?

Pops1085 · February 12, 2013, 07:29 PM

I brought this up at another forum but was immediately shot down by people with special forces training so I thought I'd ask here since I've been treated alright so far. I don't have very much firearm experience other than trap shooting and point shooting and am decent at that. I was reading some articles online and the common thing I saw was that a 22 was no good for self defense. But if you look at the 9mm vs 45 debate the 9mm people argue that in a self defense situation, the guy with the most bullets has the upper hand. Well can't that same mentality be used with a ruger 10-22 that has 2 30 round magazines taped together? I know a 22 wouldn't be a one stop drop but then again you can put out 20 rounds quick and accurate with it just by point shooting.

kraigwy · February 12, 2013, 07:34 PM

I little gun that you can shoot beats a big gun you can't shoot every time.

allaroundhunter · February 12, 2013, 07:39 PM

If it is all that you have, then sure. But it is far from ideal and is not recommended (when other options are feasible) for good reason.

Quote:

Well can't that same mentality be used with a ruger 10-22 that has 2 30 round magazines taped together?

That same mentality is not as "cut and paste" as you are trying to make it. Comparing 30 rounds of .22 is not the same as 17 rounds of 9mm. The 9mm has considerably more energy than the .22, and the energy difference between the 9mm and .45 ACP is much less than from a .22 to a 9mm.

If you have experience trap shooting, do you have a shotgun? I would rather have a shotgun to use for HD than any .22 lr caliber firearm.

**What is your definition of "point shooting"? I don't think you are using it in the same way that most do... At least, I hope you aren't since you are referencing point shooting in a defensive scenario.

22-rimfire · February 12, 2013, 07:40 PM

I have no problem at all using a Ruger 10/22 for home defense. I see no need for the larger capacity mags. I have found the ones that are 20 and less tend ot function more reliabily. I agree that those little rifles point very nicely!

More bullets, sure. But consider what you are going to tell the judge or jury when they ask you why you fired 25 rounds into the perp? Maybe a couple 9mm or 40 S&W would have worked just as well and seemed more "normal" in a self defensive situation.

I generally hold to the opinion that there are better calibers to choose for home defense. That is not to say that a 22 rifle won't do the job. I sometimes carry my Ruger LCR-22 for self defense. I always qualify my "advice" with using or choosing a 22.

Pops1085 · February 12, 2013, 07:52 PM

Well sure I've got a shotgun but it holds 3 rounds and has a 28" inch barrel and is not exactly handy. I generally do not keep rounds in my guns and thats why I thought the 10-22 under the bed with a loaded mag or two in the night stand would be great. As for my definition of point shooting. Shoulder the rifle, look at what you want to hit, point, and shoot. I don't know if I would be able to get a sight picture in the dark when I'm ******* myself

Kreyzhorse · February 12, 2013, 07:54 PM

There are better options, however, to discount the .22lr as valid HD tool is silly. A 30 round mag is fine but even without it out a 10 round mag can certainly work to your advantage.

Doc TH · February 12, 2013, 10:22 PM

As others have said, there are alternative choices that are likely to be superior in a SD situation. If there are significant reasons why you would prefer a .22, you should bear in mind that the NYPD has constructed a database of all police-perp shootings over the last 30 years or so. When they looked at factors statistically associated with ending the shooting, caliber was not one of them; shot placement was the most important factor. So if you believe you can hit what you aim at with a .22 but are unsure whether that would be the case with a larger caliber, that might be a best choice for you. To reduce the chance of a misfire with a rimfire cartridge, go with specialized target ammo that is highly reliable.

L_Killkenny · February 13, 2013, 03:29 PM

What the heck is "specialized target ammo"?

IMO, a .22lr will stop almost as many threats as any other more thought of guns and cartridges. Note, I said almost. Ammo quality can very so run something decent thru it and make sure your gun eats it up (doesn't have to be "specialized target ammo" though

). Every 10/22 I've owned, shot or been around will eat up steady diets of both MiniMags and Velocitors without breakin the bank.

Old Grump · February 13, 2013, 04:59 PM

Quote:

What the heck is "specialized target ammo"?

Generally standard velocity made to exacting specifications and costing dearly. Unless its for steel target shooting it is not a good idea for defending the homestead.

Any 22 will hurt but if you must use a 22 LR for self defense purposes at least get high velocity 40 grain solids, not hyper velocity or hollow points. You need all the help you can get and that means you need to penetrate. A plated 40 grain bullet will break through a bone and get inside to do some damage where a hollow point will deform there and either stop or deflect and go elsewhere at a much reduced velocity. If you have to make small holes make them deep holes, not shallow holes.

hornetguy · February 13, 2013, 06:10 PM

I personally would not hesitate to use a .22 for home defense, although it wouldn't be my first choice. My first choice for middle-of-the-night scenarios is the pump 12ga. I keep the mag loaded at all times, and the action locked, with no shell in the chamber. My finger automatically hits the bolt unlock button when I grab the gun, and I work the action, filling the chamber with 00 buck. I hope the noise of the action alone will make the decision for "fight or flight" for the perp.
If the only gun I had was a .22, I wouldn't feel unprotected at all.

SIGSHR · February 13, 2013, 06:43 PM

Again,not the first choice of we Self Proclaimed Experts but beats fists,feet and foul language and a hit with a 22LR hurts a lot worse than a miss with something larger.
"People with special forces training" eh? Funny how many of them you meet on the Internet.

handlerer2 · February 13, 2013, 07:22 PM

I have go along with the consensus here and say use what you have.

Being a former LEO, Sheriff's Deputy, we had to qualify with whatever firearm we would use on duty. We were advised and have advised people, that asked how many times should they shoot someone that was attacking them. I heard the Chief deputy tell some civilians training for an armed car company, that if ever in a situation where you're endangered, empty your firearm into them. There was woman who thought that wounding them would be better. She was told," In any shooting there is going to be an investigation, Hearings go quicker when there is no survivors testimony. If you empty your weapon in the bad guy it appears that you were in desperate fear for your or your families life. A wounded bad guy can come after you later, a dead bad guy can't". In my opinion anyone invading my home and threatening my family is committing suicide. Killing a man is a terrible thing but in selfdefense there should be no remorse.

I too would use a 12 gauge if I had one.

I have noticed also how many Seals, snipers, and Special Forces people post in some forums. Kind of like the number of people who throw away any rifle that doesn't shoot 1/2MOA.

Daekar · February 13, 2013, 07:25 PM

Any semiautomatic 22LR rifle would be great for HD. Easy to intuitively aim, and with no recoil every single shot will hit. I'd rather be shot at by somebody with a 9mm pistol than somebody with a 22 rifle... chances are that the pistol wielder would miss and the rifle wielder wouldn't. Plus 22LR is plenty lethal. Get your full-capacity magazine and stick it under your bed without any reservations as long as you're willing to squeeze the trigger more than once. :-)

Gazpacho · February 14, 2013, 02:27 AM

I would only recommend a semi-auto 22lr rifle under special circumstances, like recoil intolerance. Yes, any gun is better than no gun and 22lr can still be lethal.

But in your current situation, I would fort up in a room, preferably behind some stout furniture, with you shotgun loaded and pointed at the room entry point, and your 10/22 ready to scoop up, if the shotty can't do the job. Then call 911 and let the police clear your house.

Art Eatman · February 14, 2013, 11:46 AM

I wouldn't buy a .22 rifle with home defense as a priority. But I don't think that's the point, here. "Use what you have."

I'd assume a semi-auto. If not a 10/22, then a tube magazine type.

I have read, but don't know first-hand, that multiple rapid hits have a cumulative effect brought about by the rapidity. The example was the Skorpion .32. Pipsqueak cartridge, but deadly because of the rate of fire of 1,200 rounds per minute.

So, if a .22 rifle is used, method is the important thing: I'd think a half-dozen very rapid hits to the center of mass. Since recoil is trivial, there should be a very tight group.

So, go practice.

Brotherbadger · February 14, 2013, 02:41 PM

I wouldn't use my .22 as a HD rifle but if it was all i had, i'd sure make the most of it. I plan to use my 12ga if i ever need to.

Microgunner · February 14, 2013, 02:50 PM

A fast shooting high capacity .22lr rifle makes a fine HD firearm IMO.

Especially a nice little AR 22lr with a Slide Fire (SSAR) stock installed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na4r7wkA9Vo

emcon5 · February 14, 2013, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Especially a nice little AR 22lr with a Slide Fire (SSAR) stock installed.

Make sure you bring some lube with you to the courthouse, you will need it.

While not the best solution for home defense, if what you have is a 10/22, then use it.

Microgunner · February 14, 2013, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emcon5

Make sure you bring some lube with you to the courthouse, you will need it.

Lube?

I'm going to need to disagree with you here.

Can you cite an incident where someone has been charged with a crime for using this 100% legal bump fire device?

Willie Sutton · February 14, 2013, 05:24 PM

^^ Childish... Really foolish.

Do you *really* think that you're going to be taken seriously here?

Willie

.

Microgunner · February 14, 2013, 05:35 PM

Quote:

^^ Childish... Really foolish.

Do you *really* think that you're going to be taken seriously here?

Willie

Willie, my friend, I really don't care what you think. You could measure my concern in micro-give-a-craps.

I believe what I believe and you the same.

I don't use a .22lr for defensive purposes but I do own a CMMG Sierra upper that I use with my S&W lower and after installing a Timney 3# trigger & Slide Fire stock the .22lr upper as well as the 5.56 upper will rapid fire at an extreme rate and the .22lr upper is very easy to control.

I could easily envision a recoil sensetive person being exceptionally lethal with a .22lr and SSAR.

allaroundhunter · February 14, 2013, 05:37 PM

Micro, there was an incident where a man used his legally owned AC556 to defend himself... Yes, the attacker died.... Yes, there were MANY more legal issues that he had to deal with.

I know, not the same thing, but the same points can be made.

emcon5 · February 14, 2013, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Can you cite an incident where someone has been charged with a crime for using this 100% legal bump fire device?

I was referring to the civil suit. Good shoot or not, after the plaintiff's lawyer gets through with you, you will look like the goatse guy.

Microgunner · February 15, 2013, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emcon5

I was referring to the civil suit. Good shoot or not, after the plaintiff's lawyer gets through with you, you will look like the goatse guy.

I'll never position potential litigation over absolute life and limb.

jmortimer · February 15, 2013, 11:57 AM

A .22 semi-auto rifle with decent ammunition will work fine. Has done the job over and over. Use it if that is what is most comfortable. Within reason, practice and shot placement trumps caliber.

February 12, 2013, 07:29 PM	#1
Pops1085 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Posts: 369	22lr as a HD tool? I brought this up at another forum but was immediately shot down by people with special forces training so I thought I'd ask here since I've been treated alright so far. I don't have very much firearm experience other than trap shooting and point shooting and am decent at that. I was reading some articles online and the common thing I saw was that a 22 was no good for self defense. But if you look at the 9mm vs 45 debate the 9mm people argue that in a self defense situation, the guy with the most bullets has the upper hand. Well can't that same mentality be used with a ruger 10-22 that has 2 30 round magazines taped together? I know a 22 wouldn't be a one stop drop but then again you can put out 20 rounds quick and accurate with it just by point shooting.

February 12, 2013, 07:34 PM	#2
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	I little gun that you can shoot beats a big gun you can't shoot every time. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

February 12, 2013, 07:54 PM	#6
Kreyzhorse Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2006 Location: NKY Posts: 12,463	There are better options, however, to discount the .22lr as valid HD tool is silly. A 30 round mag is fine but even without it out a 10 round mag can certainly work to your advantage. __________________ "He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson

February 13, 2013, 06:10 PM	#10
hornetguy Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2011 Location: on the north side of DFW Posts: 970	I personally would not hesitate to use a .22 for home defense, although it wouldn't be my first choice. My first choice for middle-of-the-night scenarios is the pump 12ga. I keep the mag loaded at all times, and the action locked, with no shell in the chamber. My finger automatically hits the bolt unlock button when I grab the gun, and I work the action, filling the chamber with 00 buck. I hope the noise of the action alone will make the decision for "fight or flight" for the perp. If the only gun I had was a .22, I wouldn't feel unprotected at all. __________________ I always felt that if I got to the point where I thought it was time to bury my firearms, it was actually time to pick them up..

February 13, 2013, 07:25 PM	#13
Daekar Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2011 Posts: 458	Any semiautomatic 22LR rifle would be great for HD. Easy to intuitively aim, and with no recoil every single shot will hit. I'd rather be shot at by somebody with a 9mm pistol than somebody with a 22 rifle... chances are that the pistol wielder would miss and the rifle wielder wouldn't. Plus 22LR is plenty lethal. Get your full-capacity magazine and stick it under your bed without any reservations as long as you're willing to squeeze the trigger more than once. :-) __________________ "... I cannot but conclude the bulk of your [politicians] to be the most pernicious race of little odious vermin that nature ever suffered to crawl upon the surface of the earth." ~ Jonathon Swift

February 12, 2013, 07:40 PM	#4
22-rimfire Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2005 Location: Tennessee Posts: 5,323	I have no problem at all using a Ruger 10/22 for home defense. I see no need for the larger capacity mags. I have found the ones that are 20 and less tend ot function more reliabily. I agree that those little rifles point very nicely! More bullets, sure. But consider what you are going to tell the judge or jury when they ask you why you fired 25 rounds into the perp? Maybe a couple 9mm or 40 S&W would have worked just as well and seemed more "normal" in a self defensive situation. I generally hold to the opinion that there are better calibers to choose for home defense. That is not to say that a 22 rifle won't do the job. I sometimes carry my Ruger LCR-22 for self defense. I always qualify my "advice" with using or choosing a 22.

February 12, 2013, 07:52 PM	#5
Pops1085 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2012 Posts: 369	Well sure I've got a shotgun but it holds 3 rounds and has a 28" inch barrel and is not exactly handy. I generally do not keep rounds in my guns and thats why I thought the 10-22 under the bed with a loaded mag or two in the night stand would be great. As for my definition of point shooting. Shoulder the rifle, look at what you want to hit, point, and shoot. I don't know if I would be able to get a sight picture in the dark when I'm ******* myself

February 12, 2013, 10:22 PM	#7
Doc TH Senior Member Join Date: December 15, 2005 Posts: 633	As others have said, there are alternative choices that are likely to be superior in a SD situation. If there are significant reasons why you would prefer a .22, you should bear in mind that the NYPD has constructed a database of all police-perp shootings over the last 30 years or so. When they looked at factors statistically associated with ending the shooting, caliber was not one of them; shot placement was the most important factor. So if you believe you can hit what you aim at with a .22 but are unsure whether that would be the case with a larger caliber, that might be a best choice for you. To reduce the chance of a misfire with a rimfire cartridge, go with specialized target ammo that is highly reliable.

February 13, 2013, 03:29 PM	#8
L_Killkenny Senior Member Join Date: February 2, 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 2,676	What the heck is "specialized target ammo"? IMO, a .22lr will stop almost as many threats as any other more thought of guns and cartridges. Note, I said almost. Ammo quality can very so run something decent thru it and make sure your gun eats it up (doesn't have to be "specialized target ammo" though ). Every 10/22 I've owned, shot or been around will eat up steady diets of both MiniMags and Velocitors without breakin the bank.

February 13, 2013, 06:43 PM	#11
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	Again,not the first choice of we Self Proclaimed Experts but beats fists,feet and foul language and a hit with a 22LR hurts a lot worse than a miss with something larger. "People with special forces training" eh? Funny how many of them you meet on the Internet.

February 13, 2013, 07:22 PM	#12
handlerer2 Senior Member Join Date: April 26, 2010 Location: Yellowstone Co, MT Posts: 489	I have go along with the consensus here and say use what you have. Being a former LEO, Sheriff's Deputy, we had to qualify with whatever firearm we would use on duty. We were advised and have advised people, that asked how many times should they shoot someone that was attacking them. I heard the Chief deputy tell some civilians training for an armed car company, that if ever in a situation where you're endangered, empty your firearm into them. There was woman who thought that wounding them would be better. She was told," In any shooting there is going to be an investigation, Hearings go quicker when there is no survivors testimony. If you empty your weapon in the bad guy it appears that you were in desperate fear for your or your families life. A wounded bad guy can come after you later, a dead bad guy can't". In my opinion anyone invading my home and threatening my family is committing suicide. Killing a man is a terrible thing but in selfdefense there should be no remorse. I too would use a 12 gauge if I had one. I have noticed also how many Seals, snipers, and Special Forces people post in some forums. Kind of like the number of people who throw away any rifle that doesn't shoot 1/2MOA.

February 14, 2013, 02:27 AM	#14
Gazpacho Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2004 Posts: 592	I would only recommend a semi-auto 22lr rifle under special circumstances, like recoil intolerance. Yes, any gun is better than no gun and 22lr can still be lethal. But in your current situation, I would fort up in a room, preferably behind some stout furniture, with you shotgun loaded and pointed at the room entry point, and your 10/22 ready to scoop up, if the shotty can't do the job. Then call 911 and let the police clear your house.

February 14, 2013, 11:46 AM	#15
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	I wouldn't buy a .22 rifle with home defense as a priority. But I don't think that's the point, here. "Use what you have." I'd assume a semi-auto. If not a 10/22, then a tube magazine type. I have read, but don't know first-hand, that multiple rapid hits have a cumulative effect brought about by the rapidity. The example was the Skorpion .32. Pipsqueak cartridge, but deadly because of the rate of fire of 1,200 rounds per minute. So, if a .22 rifle is used, method is the important thing: I'd think a half-dozen very rapid hits to the center of mass. Since recoil is trivial, there should be a very tight group. So, go practice.

February 14, 2013, 02:41 PM	#16
Brotherbadger Senior Member Join Date: November 10, 2010 Posts: 1,149	I wouldn't use my .22 as a HD rifle but if it was all i had, i'd sure make the most of it. I plan to use my 12ga if i ever need to.

February 14, 2013, 02:50 PM	#17
Microgunner Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 3,324	A fast shooting high capacity .22lr rifle makes a fine HD firearm IMO. Especially a nice little AR 22lr with a Slide Fire (SSAR) stock installed. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na4r7wkA9Vo __________________ *Proud NRA Benefactor Member* Last edited by Microgunner; February 14, 2013 at 02:57 PM.

February 14, 2013, 05:24 PM	#20
Willie Sutton Junior member Join Date: January 26, 2012 Posts: 1,066	^^ Childish... Really foolish. Do you really think that you're going to be taken seriously here? Willie .

February 14, 2013, 05:37 PM	#22
allaroundhunter Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2012 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 1,670	Micro, there was an incident where a man used his legally owned AC556 to defend himself... Yes, the attacker died.... Yes, there were MANY more legal issues that he had to deal with. I know, not the same thing, but the same points can be made.

February 15, 2013, 11:57 AM	#25
jmortimer Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: South West Riverside County California Posts: 2,763	A .22 semi-auto rifle with decent ammunition will work fine. Has done the job over and over. Use it if that is what is most comfortable. Within reason, practice and shot placement trumps caliber.