.38 Super C.C. little orginal left.

dahermit · November 19, 2020, 05:05 PM

I have always liked odd-ball cartridges. That is likely just one reason I like my 70's era .38 Super Combat Commander. Another reason I like this gun is that I did a lot of parts swapping to get it where I wanted it to be. Looking at it today, I found that I had done more to it than I remembered first off.
Here is a list of the changes...some were options, some were necessary due to factory error.

1. New slide (it is stamped 9MM...not .38 Super because that was the only Command slide that was available at the time...it is a series 80 slide, sans series 80 firing pin lock).
2. It has a National Match barrel bushing.
3. It has an aftermarket barrel with fully supported chamber (as I remember the original Colt barrel had an unsupported cut on the bottom).
4. It has a long target trigger.
5. The new trigger was stoned on a 1911 trigger honing fixture giving it a very good trigger pull.
6. It has wrap-around Pachmayr rubber grips...which I prefer for my autos.
7. It has a Pachmayr checkered rubber-covered flat mainspring houseing...so I have checkered rubber all the way around the gun's grip area (I don't know if they still make them).
8. It has an extended magazine release button...I have small hands and find it very awkward to reach a standard 1911 magazine release.
9. I had the old pitiful Military-style sights removed and better sights added (Novak?) via milling cuts.
10. I added a Beaver Tail grip safety. I think my adding that was likely cosmetic inasmuch as having smallish hands, I have never been bitten by any auto slide, ever.
To my surprise, I found that I had not swapped out the safety that had come with the gun...it is a mystery to me that it still has the original inasmuch as I have always considered the standard safety inadequate. I wonder how I missed that...a possible this Winter-time project? Addendum: I found a blued Ambi safety in my parts box...evidently I did try an Ambi at one time, did not like it and put the original back in. However, I for sure will put an extende, wider safety in the gun this Winter.
In all, a true "FrankenColt"...but I think it is a way better gun than it started out to be.

rodfac · November 19, 2020, 08:13 PM

Nice job, Deherm...good lookin' piece in a very interesting caliber...lot's of potential there. I've posted here before regarding my 4-caliber Combat Commander: originally in .45, but found slide/bbl. assemblies in 9mm and .38 Super that fitted well...drop in really.

As I recall, I had to change out the ejector, and of course the mags, but that was it. When Ruger came out with the CMD model, I tried those Series 70 uppers on it and they fit and functioned perfectly. If you've got the Ruger CMD, give it a try, you might be surprised. The .38 Super combination is as accurate as the original .45 ACP on both the Colt Commander and the Ruger CMD, with groups with tailored handloads that hover around 2" at 25 yds.

Another surprise was that .38 Super mags, will feed 9mm equally well, effectively doubling my mag supply. But not the other way around, the 9mm mag is too short internally to take the longer .38 Super round.

Lastly, I bought a Ciener .22 LR slide/bbl. that works very well, and is nearly as accurate as my M41 Smith. Gotta keep both of them clean, tho; chambers and the bolt face especially to reduce FT Feed's.

Pic below is the Ruger frame with one of the Series 70 uppers on it...can't remember which as they're alike. The stocks were hand made for me by son #1 from some flooring he had laying about in his shop.

Best of luck with your new piece...it's a beauty. And BTW, I'd much prefer those Novak sights on yours. Rod

rc · November 19, 2020, 10:27 PM

I love the 38 super in the 1911s. Kimber 4 inch Pro Carry with bull barrels have little muzzle flip compared with a colt 4.25 inch Commander in 45! In short 1911s, the super is much more controllable.

Bake · November 20, 2020, 02:29 AM

Back in the early '80s, a few guys were loading 38 Super for USPSA "MAJOR" (180 Power Factor)! Those guys were "Nuts". . .

**Aguila Blanca** · November 20, 2020, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bake

Back in the early '80s, a few guys were loading 38 Super for USPSA "MAJOR" (180 Power Factor)! Those guys were "Nuts". . .

Not really. The Wikipedia article on the .38 Super cartridge lists five commercial loads for the round. Three of the five "make major."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_Super

The original .38 Super loading was a 130-grain projectile at 1,280 fps. That computes to a power factor of 166,400 (or 166, depending on whether you're shooting USPSA or IDPA), which is major.

dahermit · November 20, 2020, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

Not really. The Wikipedia article on the .38 Super cartridge lists five commercial loads for the round. Three of the five "make major."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_Super

The original .38 Super loading was a 130-grain projectile at 1,280 fps. That computes to a power factor of 166,400 (or 166, depending on whether you're shooting USPSA or IDPA), which is major.

For "hot loads" I still have part of the box of Winchester 125 grain hollow points I bought when I first got the gun in the seventies. The gun is "staged" in my house so that when I have a desire to shoot it, I only use somewhat mild handloads.

Awhile back when I was developing warmer than mild handloads, I had a round blowout in the cut in the chamber. Although there was no apparent damage, it shook the hell out of me with that loud report (despite both ear plugs and muffs) and the venting of the gas down through the magazine well. I think that is when I swapped-out the existing Colt barrel for an aftermarket, with almost no bullet nose cut. I have been paranoid about shooting hot loads ever since. Therefore, I am not likely getting any higher velocity from it than what I would get in a 9MM.
I still have an extra-power recoil spring if I ever want to shoot hotter loads and also have all my load development data for such in a three-ring binder if I ever feel the need to be bold with loads again.

Some of my cast bullets (RCBS 125 G.C., powder coated) using No.9 powder in this case. I also developed hotter loads using Vihtavuori Oy N340 and 3N37 powders, et. al.). The box on the right contains very few rounds of the original box of ammo I bought when I bought the gun in the seventies...they are reserved for home-defense when the gun is "staged".

Hammerhead · November 20, 2020, 10:11 AM

Neat pistol dehermit.
Love the mid bore 1911s. Had a couple supers, now just a 9.

74A95 · November 20, 2020, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca

Not really. The Wikipedia article on the .38 Super cartridge lists five commercial loads for the round. Three of the five "make major."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_Super

The original .38 Super loading was a 130-grain projectile at 1,280 fps. That computes to a power factor of 166,400 (or 166, depending on whether you're shooting USPSA or IDPA), which is major.

There’s a lot wrong with this.

The original 38 Super loading was a 130 grain bullet at 1300 fps, starting in 1933 by Remington. At some point it was dropped to 1280 fps, and today it’s usually at 1215 fps from the major manufacturers.

Today, only a few places offer 38 Super in Major power factor for competition, such as ELEY, Geco and Atlanta Arms. Underwood and Buffalo Bore ammo might make Major, but it would be very expensive for that purpose.

The old USPSA Open Division power factor was 175. This changed in the late 1990s to 165. Back then, folks were loading to 180 power factor to have a margin above the 175 power factor to ensure their slow rounds would still make the cutoff.

I don’t think IDPA has ever allowed the 38 Super in any category that would make Major. IDPA’s Custom Defensive Pistol, which requires a 165 power factor, is limited to 45 Auto caliber only.

IPSC has an Open Division with a 160 power factor. I don’t know if it might have been higher in the past.

Resources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_..._organisations

http://www.k8nd.com/documents/hl38sup.pdf

Sheldon, Douglas G. 1997. Colt's Super .38, The Production History From 1929 Through 1971. Quick Vend, Inc. Willernie, MN.

shurshot · November 20, 2020, 12:04 PM

Nice job, slick looking gun.
I believe I read years ago (either Skeeter or Keith?), that the .38 Super was originally designed as a Law Enforcement / Outdoorsman's caliber.

dahermit · November 20, 2020, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammerhead

Neat pistol dehermit.
Love the mid bore 1911s. Had a couple supers, now just a 9.

Yeah...the guns store that I ordered and bought the gun from had the opinion that a "Combat" Commander made no sense. Evidently he was oriented towards using it as a "carry" gun whereas I wanted to shoot the heck out of it...but had no intention of carrying so I was unconcerned about the weight. I always liked the Commander length guns over the full size. It was always interesting to me that only 3/4 inch or so could make so much difference in the feel of the gun. Nevertheless, I think a full size 1911 may be a better choice for using the "Mexican Carry" when answering the door at night. and such.

**Aguila Blanca** · November 20, 2020, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dahermit

It was always interesting to me that only 3/4 inch or so could make so much difference in the feel of the gun. Nevertheless, I think a full size 1911 may be a better choice for using the "Mexican Carry" when answering the door at night. and such.

The Combat Commander balances better than the Government Model for me, too. But I don't worry about Mexican or any other form of carry if I answer the door at night. If my doorbell rings at night, I approach the door pistol in hand.

rock185 · November 22, 2020, 01:26 AM

dahermit, My first Super was a Combat Commander, back around early '70s. I started reloading the Super, and have had a variety of Supers since. More often than not, I changed one or more features to get the gun like I wanted it, just as you have.

I've had mostly Colt Supers, but currently a Kimber and STI. Much prefer the integrally ramped factory barrels these last two manufacturers use. My first two Supers, Colts, had those old barrels that attempted to headspace the cartridge on that tiny semi-rim, and also had poor case head support. The guns were reliable, but accuracy at 25 yards was dismal. Literally all over the paper, with no district group to be found, and flattened and pierced primers with standard factory ammo. Since about the mid '80s, even Colt started headspacing their Supers on the case mouth. And now days, Super brass is also more robust in the case head area than what we had 50 years ago. Life is good!

Anyway, I still enjoy the Supers, still reload for them, etc.

dahermit · November 22, 2020, 01:20 PM

Quote:

I've had mostly Colt Supers, but currently a Kimber and STI. Much prefer the integrally ramped factory barrels these last two manufacturers use. My first two Supers, Colts, had those old barrels that attempted to headspace the cartridge on that tiny semi-rim, and also had poor case head support. The guns were reliable, but accuracy at 25 yards was dismal. Literally all over the paper, with no district group to be found, and flattened and pierced primers with standard factory ammo. Since about the mid '80s, even Colt started headspacing their Supers on the case mouth.

I have gone through three barrels on my .38 Super Commander...the original Colt factory had its locking lugs beat-up by an out of spec slide. A replacement barrel I installed was (like the original barrel), had too much of a cut in the barrel where it was cut to provide bullet nose relief. That last and present aftermarket barrel has a more modest relief cut, resulting in more support in the head of the case. Here are to two barrels side by side...the new, more supported on the right.

The older barrel with its less support resulted in bulges near the extraction groove on the case head and in one instance a blow out that shook my world and was the impetus for getting a barrel with more support. The bulge is most evident on the case on the far right.

I have played with the head spacing system over the years. I will note that there was a lot of misunderstanding about how the .38 Super headspaced years ago. For instance, if one took a cartridge and "plunked" it into the chamber, and then wiggled it around until the rim slipped off that little cut on top, they would then be of the opinion that any problems they had (poor accuracy, etc), was caused by the rim falling off the shelf when firing. However, most seemed unaware that in contrary to plunking a round in the chamber of the unmounted barrel, when the barrel is actually in the gun, the round extractor groove comes up under the extractor with not enough play to fall off the shelf. In short, those early barrels headspaced, not on that little shelf alone, but head spaced on the extractor and the shelf.

dahermit · November 22, 2020, 01:59 PM

Addendum: I found the original ejector that came with the gun in my parts box. Looking into the gun, I see an extended extractor that I must have installed a few years ago, and forgotten about. So, in addition to all the parts I have swapped out, the extractor is not original either.
Evidently Colt was installing "short" extractors in their Colt Combat Commanders in .38 Super back then. I noticed that my XSE .45 Combat Commander has a long extractor.

November 19, 2020, 08:13 PM	#2
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	Nice job, Deherm...good lookin' piece in a very interesting caliber...lot's of potential there. I've posted here before regarding my 4-caliber Combat Commander: originally in .45, but found slide/bbl. assemblies in 9mm and .38 Super that fitted well...drop in really. As I recall, I had to change out the ejector, and of course the mags, but that was it. When Ruger came out with the CMD model, I tried those Series 70 uppers on it and they fit and functioned perfectly. If you've got the Ruger CMD, give it a try, you might be surprised. The .38 Super combination is as accurate as the original .45 ACP on both the Colt Commander and the Ruger CMD, with groups with tailored handloads that hover around 2" at 25 yds. Another surprise was that .38 Super mags, will feed 9mm equally well, effectively doubling my mag supply. But not the other way around, the 9mm mag is too short internally to take the longer .38 Super round. Lastly, I bought a Ciener .22 LR slide/bbl. that works very well, and is nearly as accurate as my M41 Smith. Gotta keep both of them clean, tho; chambers and the bolt face especially to reduce FT Feed's. Pic below is the Ruger frame with one of the Series 70 uppers on it...can't remember which as they're alike. The stocks were hand made for me by son #1 from some flooring he had laying about in his shop. Best of luck with your new piece...it's a beauty. And BTW, I'd much prefer those Novak sights on yours. Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73. Last edited by rodfac; November 19, 2020 at 08:24 PM.

November 20, 2020, 02:29 AM	#4
Bake Senior Member Join Date: November 11, 2012 Location: San Joaquin Valley, Calif. Posts: 482	Back in the early '80s, a few guys were loading 38 Super for USPSA "MAJOR" (180 Power Factor)! Those guys were "Nuts". . . __________________ 1. The pattern board is your friend, use the Dam thing!!! 2. The maximum range of a firearm and/or cartridge, is usually measured in miles, and means nothing. 2a. The effective range of a firearm and/or cartridge, is usually (the ability of the shooter) measured in yards, and means everything.

November 22, 2020, 01:26 AM	#12
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,093	dahermit, My first Super was a Combat Commander, back around early '70s. I started reloading the Super, and have had a variety of Supers since. More often than not, I changed one or more features to get the gun like I wanted it, just as you have. I've had mostly Colt Supers, but currently a Kimber and STI. Much prefer the integrally ramped factory barrels these last two manufacturers use. My first two Supers, Colts, had those old barrels that attempted to headspace the cartridge on that tiny semi-rim, and also had poor case head support. The guns were reliable, but accuracy at 25 yards was dismal. Literally all over the paper, with no district group to be found, and flattened and pierced primers with standard factory ammo. Since about the mid '80s, even Colt started headspacing their Supers on the case mouth. And now days, Super brass is also more robust in the case head area than what we had 50 years ago. Life is good! Anyway, I still enjoy the Supers, still reload for them, etc. __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life

November 19, 2020, 05:05 PM	#1
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	.38 Super C.C. little orginal left. I have always liked odd-ball cartridges. That is likely just one reason I like my 70's era .38 Super Combat Commander. Another reason I like this gun is that I did a lot of parts swapping to get it where I wanted it to be. Looking at it today, I found that I had done more to it than I remembered first off. Here is a list of the changes...some were options, some were necessary due to factory error. 1. New slide (it is stamped 9MM...not .38 Super because that was the only Command slide that was available at the time...it is a series 80 slide, sans series 80 firing pin lock). 2. It has a National Match barrel bushing. 3. It has an aftermarket barrel with fully supported chamber (as I remember the original Colt barrel had an unsupported cut on the bottom). 4. It has a long target trigger. 5. The new trigger was stoned on a 1911 trigger honing fixture giving it a very good trigger pull. 6. It has wrap-around Pachmayr rubber grips...which I prefer for my autos. 7. It has a Pachmayr checkered rubber-covered flat mainspring houseing...so I have checkered rubber all the way around the gun's grip area (I don't know if they still make them). 8. It has an extended magazine release button...I have small hands and find it very awkward to reach a standard 1911 magazine release. 9. I had the old pitiful Military-style sights removed and better sights added (Novak?) via milling cuts. 10. I added a Beaver Tail grip safety. I think my adding that was likely cosmetic inasmuch as having smallish hands, I have never been bitten by any auto slide, ever. To my surprise, I found that I had not swapped out the safety that had come with the gun...it is a mystery to me that it still has the original inasmuch as I have always considered the standard safety inadequate. I wonder how I missed that...a possible this Winter-time project? Addendum: I found a blued Ambi safety in my parts box...evidently I did try an Ambi at one time, did not like it and put the original back in. However, I for sure will put an extende, wider safety in the gun this Winter. In all, a true "FrankenColt"...but I think it is a way better gun than it started out to be. Last edited by dahermit; November 20, 2020 at 10:57 AM.

November 19, 2020, 10:27 PM	#3
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,767	I love the 38 super in the 1911s. Kimber 4 inch Pro Carry with bull barrels have little muzzle flip compared with a colt 4.25 inch Commander in 45! In short 1911s, the super is much more controllable.

November 20, 2020, 10:11 AM	#7
Hammerhead Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2004 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,432	Neat pistol dehermit. Love the mid bore 1911s. Had a couple supers, now just a 9.

November 20, 2020, 12:04 PM	#9
shurshot Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2006 Posts: 1,819	Nice job, slick looking gun. I believe I read years ago (either Skeeter or Keith?), that the .38 Super was originally designed as a Law Enforcement / Outdoorsman's caliber.

November 22, 2020, 01:59 PM	#14
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	Addendum: I found the original ejector that came with the gun in my parts box. Looking into the gun, I see an extended extractor that I must have installed a few years ago, and forgotten about. So, in addition to all the parts I have swapped out, the extractor is not original either. Evidently Colt was installing "short" extractors in their Colt Combat Commanders in .38 Super back then. I noticed that my XSE .45 Combat Commander has a long extractor.