Ever have a 1911 Series 70 collet break?

Lavan · November 3, 2020, 08:06 PM

I haven't. Just checking. This was a supposed "issue" some years back.

Supposedly the gripper fingers would break off.

????????????????

jcj54 · November 3, 2020, 08:21 PM

On a pistol used heavily in ISPC competition 40 years ago.

**44 AMP** · November 3, 2020, 09:12 PM

I too have seen it, and tis why I don't have a series 70, and were I to get one I'd replace the collet with a solid bushing.

there's a reason Colt stopped using that design.

Jim Watson · November 4, 2020, 09:12 AM

Heard about it for years. Three guns here over time but the current one not shot a lot.

I think a major cause of breakage was user error. Twisting the bushing with a wrench with the slide all the way forward and yanking the bushing off the flared barrel for routine cleaning would be more stress than shooting.

Lavan · November 4, 2020, 09:15 AM

I replaced a collet with solid on a Gold Cup and it went all to hell.
Just this year got a Gold Cup with collet and have amazing grouping.

Who knows?

Lavan · November 4, 2020, 09:17 AM

Oh yeah. On this new one, I never remove the collet.

T. O'Heir · November 4, 2020, 01:22 PM

My 1911A1 Series 70 has one. Never once, in 40 years or more, has it given me any grief of any kind. I suspect the gun rag writers may have started this rumour.
"...there's a reason Colt stopped..." Yep. It costs less to manufacture a solid bushing than it does a spring based bushing. A collet bushing is essentially a round spring.

dgludwig · November 5, 2020, 04:12 PM

I bought my Gold Cup with the collet new in the early seventies and have used the pistol in Bullseye competition ever since with no problems. I suspect there's a lot of truth to Jim Watson's admonition.

Slopemeno · November 5, 2020, 04:39 PM

I saw a number of broken collet bushings. Now, can I narrow it down to use, or bad disassembly technique? No, but we had a display board in the gunsmithing shop I worked in where our shop owner would glue broken collet bushing to the display as they'd come in. Hundreds of 1911's moved through our shop, and we had somewhere between 10-15 on the board. If I had a series 70 I would replace the collet bushing.

dogtown tom · November 6, 2020, 10:29 AM

I've owned three Series '70's over the last forty years and have never had one break.

KyJim · November 6, 2020, 01:04 PM

I have a transitional Series 80 with a collet. It’s not a high round gun but the collet is still on it

Sgt127 · November 6, 2020, 01:17 PM

Yep. I had one break during a shooting school. (1985 or so) You would have thought the gun was welded together.

I finally knocked the slide off the gun and sliced my hand open on the ejector.

Never used a Collet bushing again.

I never thought to look. I’ll bet there’s a gouge in that slide.

rock185 · November 6, 2020, 01:31 PM

I never had one break, but years ago some of us were shooting together and I saw one break. The gun was a near new series 70. Suddenly, the owner stopped shooting, with a confused look on his face, and I saw the slide on his pistol was open about half way. We examined the pistol and discovered the collet segment with the lug that locks the bushing into the slide had broken. The recoil spring, plug and broken collet bushing went down range.

That being said, a Gold Cup I bought new back in the mid '70s is still going strong with the original collet bushing.

Many shooters did replace the collet bushing with a solid Colt drop-in bushing. I sometimes did too. The collet bushing really did provide the accuracy advantage of a fitted match bushing. I found that accuracy did deteriorate when factory drop-in solid bushings were substituted for the collet. Fitting a match bushing restored factory collet bushing accuracy.

74A95 · November 6, 2020, 04:11 PM

Yes.

Dfariswheel · November 6, 2020, 08:24 PM

The problem with the Colt collet was traced to a sometime miss-fit between the outside of the collet and the inside of the slide.

If the inside of the slide was too tight a fit over the collet, the collet fingers were unable to spring open correctly and the fingers would buckle instead of flexing.
This induced a high strain that eventually caused a finger to snap off.

The fix was to slightly reduce the ring shaped areas on the upper fingers of the collet to make more clearance between the collet and slide.

The full details are described in the Jerry Kuhnhausen Shop manual on the .45 Colt Autos, Volume One.

As I recall, the test for collet buckling was to remove the slide and barrel from the frame, and with the barrel in the locked position, press down o nthe barrel hood.
If the barrel has a springy feel, the collet needs to be clearanced by slightly reducing the ring-like areas on the upper fingers.

pete2 · November 7, 2020, 10:01 AM

Mine hasn't broke(very accurate Combat Elite)..... Saw a collet one time that broke but as I recall it was not a Colt collet, some kind of custom job.

RickB · November 8, 2020, 08:00 AM

The collet bushing was designed by Bar-Sto.
They even made Commander versions, which Colt never did.

Gas Bag · November 8, 2020, 10:39 AM

No, I haven't had a collet break, on my Series 70. So far, I have not had anything that broke.

Jim Watson · November 8, 2020, 10:48 AM

The Barsto collet bushing for Commander was a different design from the patented Colt Accurizor bushing. The Colt is meant to act as a draw collet with the barrel taper expanding the collet against the slide bore. As dfariswheel says, the fit has to be right. Colt thought they were eliminating a fit point but they were not holding dimensions close enough.
The Barsto collet bushing for Commander was just springy.
Kind of like the Colt collet bushings you would sometimes see on a straight barrel.

bamaranger · November 9, 2020, 03:39 AM

Ok, clear up some confusion for me. Were ALL Series 70 pistols equipped with a collet bushing, or just the Gold Cups? I was of the belief that only the Gold Cups had collet bushings. The nature of some of these replies is sounding otherwise. I had an all steel 70's Commander that definitely did NOT have a collet.

Old Stony · November 9, 2020, 05:05 AM

I had one break a long time ago. Not a big deal, and just replaced it with another and had no further problems.

RickB · November 9, 2020, 11:01 AM

Series 70 was a feature of both Government Model and Gold Cup, and the collet bushing/barrel combination remained well into Series 80 production, until 1988, at least.

jcj54 · November 9, 2020, 12:00 PM

Full size Gov't models and Gold Cups had collet, commanders did not

**Aguila Blanca** · November 9, 2020, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bamaranger

Were ALL Series 70 pistols equipped with a collet bushing, or just the Gold Cups

All the original, full-size Series 70 and Gold Cup pistols had it. the Series 70 Commanders did not.

The "Series 70" model that Colt reintroduced about 10 years ago does not have a collet bushing. It's called "Series 70" because it doesn't have the Series 80 firing pin safety.

rodfac · November 9, 2020, 04:20 PM

Never...in 50+ years of shooting 1911's, half a dozen of them Series 70's. Rod

November 3, 2020, 08:06 PM	#1
Lavan Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1999 Location: California Posts: 2,716	Ever have a 1911 Series 70 collet break? I haven't. Just checking. This was a supposed "issue" some years back. Supposedly the gripper fingers would break off. ????????????????

November 3, 2020, 08:21 PM	#2
jcj54 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2011 Posts: 218	I have seen it On a pistol used heavily in ISPC competition 40 years ago.

November 3, 2020, 09:12 PM	#3
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,832	I too have seen it, and tis why I don't have a series 70, and were I to get one I'd replace the collet with a solid bushing. there's a reason Colt stopped using that design. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

November 4, 2020, 01:22 PM	#7
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	My 1911A1 Series 70 has one. Never once, in 40 years or more, has it given me any grief of any kind. I suspect the gun rag writers may have started this rumour. "...there's a reason Colt stopped..." Yep. It costs less to manufacture a solid bushing than it does a spring based bushing. A collet bushing is essentially a round spring. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

November 5, 2020, 04:12 PM	#8
dgludwig Senior Member Join Date: February 12, 2005 Location: North central Ohio Posts: 7,486	I bought my Gold Cup with the collet new in the early seventies and have used the pistol in Bullseye competition ever since with no problems. I suspect there's a lot of truth to Jim Watson's admonition. __________________ ONLY AN ARMED PEOPLE CAN BE TRULY FREE ; ONLY AN UNARMED PEOPLE CAN EVER BE ENSLAVED ...Aristotle NRA Benefactor Life Member

November 4, 2020, 09:12 AM	#4
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	Heard about it for years. Three guns here over time but the current one not shot a lot. I think a major cause of breakage was user error. Twisting the bushing with a wrench with the slide all the way forward and yanking the bushing off the flared barrel for routine cleaning would be more stress than shooting.

November 4, 2020, 09:15 AM	#5
Lavan Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1999 Location: California Posts: 2,716	I replaced a collet with solid on a Gold Cup and it went all to hell. Just this year got a Gold Cup with collet and have amazing grouping. Who knows?

November 4, 2020, 09:17 AM	#6
Lavan Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 1999 Location: California Posts: 2,716	Oh yeah. On this new one, I never remove the collet.

November 5, 2020, 04:39 PM	#9
Slopemeno Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2007 Posts: 2,663	I saw a number of broken collet bushings. Now, can I narrow it down to use, or bad disassembly technique? No, but we had a display board in the gunsmithing shop I worked in where our shop owner would glue broken collet bushing to the display as they'd come in. Hundreds of 1911's moved through our shop, and we had somewhere between 10-15 on the board. If I had a series 70 I would replace the collet bushing.

November 6, 2020, 10:29 AM	#10
dogtown tom Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2006 Location: Plano, Texas Posts: 3,078	I've owned three Series '70's over the last forty years and have never had one break. __________________ Need a FFL in Dallas/Plano/Allen/Frisco/McKinney ? Just EMAIL me. $20 transfers ($10 for CHL, active military,police,fire or schoolteachers) Plano, Texas...........the Gun Nut Capitol of Gun Culture, USA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE

November 6, 2020, 01:04 PM	#11
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	I have a transitional Series 80 with a collet. It’s not a high round gun but the collet is still on it

November 6, 2020, 01:17 PM	#12
Sgt127 Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2002 Posts: 1,053	Yep. I had one break during a shooting school. (1985 or so) You would have thought the gun was welded together. I finally knocked the slide off the gun and sliced my hand open on the ejector. Never used a Collet bushing again. I never thought to look. I’ll bet there’s a gouge in that slide.

November 6, 2020, 01:31 PM	#13
rock185 Senior Member Join Date: September 2, 2001 Location: Out West in Rim Country Posts: 1,093	I never had one break, but years ago some of us were shooting together and I saw one break. The gun was a near new series 70. Suddenly, the owner stopped shooting, with a confused look on his face, and I saw the slide on his pistol was open about half way. We examined the pistol and discovered the collet segment with the lug that locks the bushing into the slide had broken. The recoil spring, plug and broken collet bushing went down range. That being said, a Gold Cup I bought new back in the mid '70s is still going strong with the original collet bushing. Many shooters did replace the collet bushing with a solid Colt drop-in bushing. I sometimes did too. The collet bushing really did provide the accuracy advantage of a fitted match bushing. I found that accuracy did deteriorate when factory drop-in solid bushings were substituted for the collet. Fitting a match bushing restored factory collet bushing accuracy. __________________ COTEP 640, NRA Life Last edited by rock185; November 6, 2020 at 01:39 PM. Reason: typo

November 6, 2020, 04:11 PM	#14
74A95 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2016 Posts: 1,568	Yes.

November 6, 2020, 08:24 PM	#15
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 7,478	The problem with the Colt collet was traced to a sometime miss-fit between the outside of the collet and the inside of the slide. If the inside of the slide was too tight a fit over the collet, the collet fingers were unable to spring open correctly and the fingers would buckle instead of flexing. This induced a high strain that eventually caused a finger to snap off. The fix was to slightly reduce the ring shaped areas on the upper fingers of the collet to make more clearance between the collet and slide. The full details are described in the Jerry Kuhnhausen Shop manual on the .45 Colt Autos, Volume One. As I recall, the test for collet buckling was to remove the slide and barrel from the frame, and with the barrel in the locked position, press down o nthe barrel hood. If the barrel has a springy feel, the collet needs to be clearanced by slightly reducing the ring-like areas on the upper fingers.

November 7, 2020, 10:01 AM	#16
pete2 Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 2,566	Mine hasn't broke(very accurate Combat Elite)..... Saw a collet one time that broke but as I recall it was not a Colt collet, some kind of custom job.

November 8, 2020, 08:00 AM	#17
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	The collet bushing was designed by Bar-Sto. They even made Commander versions, which Colt never did. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

November 8, 2020, 10:39 AM	#18
Gas Bag Member Join Date: January 3, 2019 Posts: 69	No, I haven't had a collet break, on my Series 70. So far, I have not had anything that broke.

November 8, 2020, 10:48 AM	#19
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	The Barsto collet bushing for Commander was a different design from the patented Colt Accurizor bushing. The Colt is meant to act as a draw collet with the barrel taper expanding the collet against the slide bore. As dfariswheel says, the fit has to be right. Colt thought they were eliminating a fit point but they were not holding dimensions close enough. The Barsto collet bushing for Commander was just springy. Kind of like the Colt collet bushings you would sometimes see on a straight barrel.

November 9, 2020, 03:39 AM	#20
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,308	confused Ok, clear up some confusion for me. Were ALL Series 70 pistols equipped with a collet bushing, or just the Gold Cups? I was of the belief that only the Gold Cups had collet bushings. The nature of some of these replies is sounding otherwise. I had an all steel 70's Commander that definitely did NOT have a collet.

November 9, 2020, 05:05 AM	#21
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	I had one break a long time ago. Not a big deal, and just replaced it with another and had no further problems.

November 9, 2020, 11:01 AM	#22
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	Series 70 was a feature of both Government Model and Gold Cup, and the collet bushing/barrel combination remained well into Series 80 production, until 1988, at least. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

November 9, 2020, 12:00 PM	#23
jcj54 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2011 Posts: 218	Series 70 Full size Gov't models and Gold Cups had collet, commanders did not

November 9, 2020, 04:20 PM	#25
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,623	Never...in 50+ years of shooting 1911's, half a dozen of them Series 70's. Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.