Eddystone 1917 JA Barrel Accuracy

[RC20]

This could go in the Curio and Relic as well, but it has reloading elements and maybe most.

I am going to pare down the 1917 collection and keep one or two based on the best accuracy. So one can be ugly looking and maybe keep a nice one.

So the first up with the Eddystone that got a WWII JA barrel (two grove).

Now I swear I have checked all this, but I figured I would check again as its getting serious and make sure I have my data. So I did a check on the OAL bullet length it would take (my brother built me a steel version of the Hornady Plastic OAL Gauge Tool and it works much better).

Dang, the bullet is almost falling out. That can't be right, recheck, same thing.

Ok, the next MO is to build a bullet sans powder and primer, set it to length and see if it has lands marks on it. Phew, just showing lands and it is .060 long.

Hmmm. The shoulder is right on for spec of a Go Gauge. So a long throat and no wonder it never shot.

So, just use the Kinetic to make some loaded bullets longer and see how it does. Also have a lot of odds and ends of test loads that did not prove out.

I can't see peep sights so I have the S&K Scope mount that does not mess with anything on the gun. On the 1917 setup its good (not so much for a 1903 though it works).

So, I just went with the standard .020 setback and the first group was about what I have come to expect at 2.5 inches or so (keeping in mind this is the original WWI stock, no bedding, no pressure points, just a 102 year old receiver in a 102 year old stock). This was at about 105 yards.

Eddy JA 2.5 Group.JPG

The second group, same bullet and powder but a grain more (well under max).
I can't see where I am hitting (this is Alaska, you shoot when you can and it was snowing hard).

The first 5 of the 7 was 3/4 inch (aiming at the Red Dot and I am seeing how it groups not trying to hit a bull eye which is luck with those guns). The next 3 open up the 7 to 1 1/4. Looks like a bit of stock shift (shooting very slow, 28 deg so not heating up).

Eddy JA 1.25 Group.JPG

Pretty stunned. Some days my target guns are 3/4 x 5 shot groups.

We are in range hiatus as they shutdown for December. Have to see what the temps are when they open (Jan tends to too cold). Will have some Gun only cases loaded up (normally I don't cross shoot cases in the rifles but this was supposed to be just a rough idea.)

Needless to say I am delighted. Once in a while you luck out and it all comes together (most of the time no even with hard work) However, I now have a ridiculousness high bar set. If I got a 1.5 inch group with it I would be delirious. Not sure what I am not but its someplace to the right of delirious

[Paul B.]

I have a 1917 Enfield that somebody did a bubba job on that has a two groove barrel and what looks like either a Fajen or Bishop stock. It also has a small antique Redfield peep sight and a barrel band front. I guess it might be worth getting the metal work done right to kind of clean it up right but for what it'll run I can buy some nice that needs no work.
My old eyes don't work too well with iron sights of any king but I was able to get a 3.5" group with it at 100 yard with some 180 gr. Winchester Power Point ammo I had laying around. Bore is dark but rifling is still sharp. I just use it at 50 yards with a 220 gr. cast bullet for fun. Those two groove barrels are supposed to work great with cast bullets and so far, my rifle is shooting up to my poor standard and old eyeballs. It's just an overweight fun gun to me.
Paul B.

[RC20]

Agreed, its a fun gun and not serious though I was pretty shocked at the first 5. I am not going to try to make it something its not.

The S&K mount does work extremely well (I have another one on a 1903 that is not as good).

Your cheek weld is not there (floating cheek) though you could build that up.

You might try Bore Tech Eliminator and or the Carbon Killer 2000 on the barrel. I have gotten the other 3 barrels clean with those two, actually very clean. They gleem like a new barrel.

Both work better with a warm barrel, but I just drizzle the fluid onto a nylon bruch with an eye dreopper, run it thorugh, drillze it again out the muzzle, do 5 swipes, back out the muzzle, drillze it, pu it through and run a wet patch through (and watch the curd pour out).

Worst gun was a Sako Finnbear 270 my folks got back in 1962.

It was cleaned every time, but it was shot a fair amount and carbon build up was bad (I have the Lyman boroscope which does what you want for seeing that)

It took a week to get the layers out, but it now gleems. I would clean, then layers the barrel soaked for a day, then clean again. With hand loads it shoots sub 1 MOA x 5 shots.

The only one I can't get clean is my Step Dads fathers 1903 circa 1923. That at one time was setup for target with the old long scope base drilling on the barrel.

It reads 5 on a throat erosion reading, so while not shot out it was shot a lot.

[44 AMP]

keeping in mind this is the original WWI stock, no bedding, no pressure points, just a 102 year old receiver in a 102 year old stock

No bedding or pressure points that you did...

Can you slide a dollar all the way down? Is the barrel free floated?

The rifle is bedded, and unless its been free floated there is wood/steel contact which would be a pressure point on the barrel.

Just because there hasn't been additional work done on it doesn't mean no work was done, they were made to be what they are and that's work, in itself.

Didn't see much worth putting it in the reloading section, no load data, just a few remarks about chasing the lands.

Some folks think those 2 groove barrels won't shoot well, but there seems to be plenty of them that did and still do...

[RC20]

As I noted, it could go under the C&R as well. This is not chasing the lands, its finind a whole new universe out there. So for reloading, miltary guns as well as Sako (at least the older ones) are worth finding what the true COAL is for them. That is a huge jump and accuracy of your reloads depends on it in this case (pun).

As Staff you can move it. That is why I put it in as a question mark. I may be wrong but there seems to be some dissing here and I am not sure its for what has been posted.

This is not a case of chasing but finding COAL and it is significant to to how far out it is from normal. Have you done the same on the older Sako's? Its worth a look.

A lot of people load these guns and re-loading and accuracy are a common item.

The barrel is free floating and yes I know about all that. Loose as a goose. Erratic contact and a full stock forward has never been noted as a recipe for accuracy, I think he surprise element is worth noting (maybe that puts it into competition shooting)

I have had it out of the stock. Bedding is putting in support material, there is not any there. You can take my word for the fact its a hodge podge of gun parts put into a stock (Eddy Receiver, JA barrel, R stock and various E and R fiddly bits)

As for two grove, the data said they shot on part with 4 and even the occasional HS 6.
I never disagreed with that, just noted its interesting to see it shoot that well and possibly better. My Dad's sportered 1903 shoot 1 1/4 x 5 - it was a good barrel selected and its in a non military stock.

That is a longer rifle than a 1903, stock is a threat unto itself, you could probably batter down the gates of troy with it.

The pictures speak for themselves as to load development being more than powder.

Ultimately the 1917s as resurrected were not intended as battle rifles. They were to carry something if you weren't front line troops (CB, Chemical Mortars aside *). Like the 1903, its amazing they even mentioned accuracy for something they seldom engaged in.

They did see major combat in Chinese, Philippine as well as French and some other European countries hands. Historicity worth a note that it saw far more combat than the 1903 did.



I don't begin to comprehend the 4th sentence. It is what it is?

[Unclenick]

We can leave the thread here as evidence that Berger is on to something with this article.

If your Springfield has ancient hard carbon, by a little Gunzilla and wet the barrel with it and plug the muzzle and chamber and put the gun horizontal and just let it sit for a month and a half. Gunzilla can be left in the bore indefinitely. It breaks carbon down very slowly, but it will do all the work for you and the carbon will just patch out, as will any rust that's hiding under it. I don't know that a month and a half is optimal; it is just how long I left the old Springfield barrel I cleared of hard carbon buildup in rust pits, the time having been determined by the length of a business trip I took. It may well have been done sooner. Winter gives you time for trying these sorts of things.

[RC20]

I was split between C&R and her as the elements of both and COAL has a lot of relevance. Same with the Sako by the way. They throat really long and that is Finnbears from 62 and 63. If you can't get one to shoot, load it long.

There has to be something there but it was not a MO as far as I know back in the day.

I would have to load up some at HXP length I guess to see, these were set .020 short of the real COAL.

The barrel gleams. I went at it with my Carbon Killer 2000 and Bore Tech Eliminator.

I have the Lyman boro-scope. Might not be gun smith grade but I can see how clean it is and its clean.

Only one that won't clean up to bright (other 1917s as well) is the 1932 x 1903 of my step dads. It was a target rifle clearly as it was barrel scoped at one point and does 5 on the TE. That is pretty awfull though it shoot good enough for hunting.

[Unclenick]

There has to be a way to clean it up, which why I suggested Gunzilla as a second form of carbon beater. I like Carbon Killer a lot. The limitation is on a finish. I once removed that hard carbon buildup you find behind the piston head of a well-used Garand operating rod using it. But the recommended 15-minute soak couldn't get through it all, so I left the op rod standing nose-down in the corner of a room with the piston and about an inch of the tube submerged in CK. It took several hours to soften completely enough to really remove it, and afterward, I could see the Parkerizing in that area had been thinned.

Gunzilla and Bore Tech C4 and the carbon solvents in Mobile 1 won't do that to the finish, but neither have I run enough of the old rods to know if they do equally well when carbon is that thick. I just know that in the case of my dad's sporterized A3, after a fairly good cleaning, the borescope showed a nice smooth bore, albeit with a few slightly darkened areas about mid-bore. After the Gunzilla had sat for a month, I pushed a dry patch through and it came out with black carbon and rust color on it all on one side of the patch, while the other side was clean. Examination with the Hawkeye showed that where the discolored patches had been, there was no longer any discoloration, but there were flat-bottomed pits of clean steel complexion. What had happened was the Gunzilla had broken down the old hard carbon that was glazing the pits. The pits still had some red rust underneath the carbon. The Gunzilla had softened the carbon and broken down the rust. The softened carbon has sort of the texture of a tar sludge and it flows, so the carbon had all flowed to the bottom of the bore (the rifle was horizontal) and the loosened rust also flowed down with it.

The barrel still shoots the same. The pits probably were started by corrosive priming residue improperly cleaned long ago. That carbon glaze would have taken time to build up at the hands of an owner that didn't clean the gun well. It matched the bore surface, including the rifling, perfectly before I got it out.

I have, subsequently, poured small cups full of Gunzilla and set rusted items in them. Over a period of weeks, the rust all falls off and lands in the bottom of the cup. Quite interesting to see. It is not neutralized, as you get with Evaporust or Rust Release, but it clears the way for refinishing prep pretty well.

For Copper, I've used KG-12 as well as Bore Tech Cu++. KG-12 is faster, but it doesn't turn blue or green; just a deeper burnt orange. But for speed, it is great.

[RC20]

Unclenick: It is clean.

[Unclenick]

So I'm not understanding what you mean when you say it doesn't clean up bright. Are you referring to how polished the metal is? Otherwise, I would assume a contaminant or a finish of some kind.

[RC20]

I think I figured out where we got side tracked.

The ugly bore is the 1903 from my step dad I mentioned. the 1917 gleams.

That is a 1923 from my step dads father was setup for one of those long scopes on the barrel. As it has pretty good TE (5) , it had to have been shot a whole lot.

That era would have been corrosive primers. I don't think there is any hope for it. It was declared Folk Art by Michael Petrov so I can't replace the barrel (we did that on my dads 1903 and it shoots 1 1/4 x 5 shot groups.

ps: link to a picture of Michael's his Gun Vault. He let me see it, seriously humbled

https://www.google.com/search?q=Mich...NXZAKh__gdPqcM