10mm and 800X NOT loader friendly !

Road_Clam · October 19, 2018, 07:48 PM

Dam, 800X just plain sucks. First off i'm observing a LOT of wildly varying load data between Lyman's 49th, Hornady's 9th and Hodgton. Even more confusing is Hodgton doesn't list a starting load, but calls out a max load of 8.7 for my 180 gr bullets ? Furthermore this powder does NOT meter at all through my Dillon 650's powder drop. I'm trying to load a target weight of 9g of 800X and i'm getting between 8.8 up to 9.6 ?? I really wanted to buy AA#7 or #9 but both my LGS's were out of these powders. Loading up all my test loads with my RCBS Chargemaster and got things dropping nice and consistent but jeez, loading pistol old skool' single stage is hard work as compared to loading on a 650 progressive ! I've done a lot of research over the past week attempting to load for my new Kimber 10mm Target II which has a 6" bbl so I want to err on the side of cautious as 800X can be a fussy powder from 'net feedback.

mikejonestkd · October 19, 2018, 08:41 PM

I have bought exactly one pound of 800X.
I'll never buy another....it would be the LAST powder I would buy in another shortage/ panic situation.

Its metering ability is legendary. <Legendarily BAD>

BBarn · October 19, 2018, 09:04 PM

800X works well in the 44 Mag for less than full power loads. Haven't tried it in anything else. Meters about like Unique.

Dufus · October 19, 2018, 11:45 PM

I tried 800X in 44 Mag with 260 gr cast bullets. All loads were weighed and trickled, so I know the powder charge was on the money.

The chronograph told me to put this powder away.

ES was well over 100 fps.

Accuracy was non-existent.

Nick_C_S · October 20, 2018, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Meters about like Unique.

That's characterizing it kindly, from what I understand.

Covering trampled ground here: 800X is notoriously poor metering. I was told (and shown) this very early in my loading days. I'm thankful I've never wasted my time/money on the stuff. Unique is bad enough.

Road_Clam · October 21, 2018, 06:56 AM

I have several loads and bullet profiles to test. I loaned out my Alpha Chrony and finally got it back. . Can't use my Magnetospeed V3 on a 1911. Curious to see my data. Definitely a love/hate following for 800X (more towards hate).

T. O'Heir · October 21, 2018, 11:59 AM

9 grains of 800X is over max for a 180 grain bullet. Do not exceed published Max loads.
"...Hodgton doesn't list a starting load..." Hodgdon will tell you to reduce by 10% for the start load. That'd be 7.8 of 800X for a 180.
"...loading pistol old skool' single stage is hard work..." Using a single stage press quickly is about technique. Primarily using both hands.
Lotta powders don't flow through progressive mounted powder throwers well.

m&p45acp10+1 · October 21, 2018, 12:07 PM

800X meters very poorly at low volume. It is a shotgun powder. In shot shell it meters just fine as measures are wider so it does not bridge to the sides.

If hand weighed it works pretty darn well. Blue Dot is much the same way. I have to hand weigh Blue Dot charges. With 180 grain JHP it gives good accuracy. Though the loads are not soft shooting. I used some AA7 yesterday. While not the same accuracy as Blue Dot. It metered much better. So it sped up the loading process, and the change in accuracy if I am standing up shooting as normal I would not notice a change.

For the 800x either hand weigh each charge. Or find a person that loads shot shells, and gift it to them.

Brian Pfleuger · October 21, 2018, 01:19 PM

800x is wonderful for certain loads. Compressed, full power loads in 357sig, for example. “Full power” 10mm loads are great too. Beyond current load data though, most of which equates 10mm and .40SW.
Meters just like every other powder for me... out of an RCBS Chargemaster 1500.

Road_Clam · October 21, 2018, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dufus

I tried 800X in 44 Mag with 260 gr cast bullets. All loads were weighed and trickled, so I know the powder charge was on the money.

The chronograph told me to put this powder away.

ES was well over 100 fps.

Accuracy was non-existent.

You sir are spot on per my data I observed today via my Alpha Chrony. However I did surprisingly observe good (not great) groupings despite huge ES's.

Some of my data :

Berry's 180 / 9gr / 800X Low=1194 / High=1284 / avg=1233 / ES=90 / SD=34
*normal looking flatness on the primer

Berry's 180 / 9.2gr / 800X Low=1236 / High=1338 / avg=1299 / ES=102 / SD=40
*slightly flat primers, slight cratering firing pin strike

Berry's 180 / 10gr / 800X low=1348 / High=1414 / avg=1369 es=65 sd=20
*high pressures, heavily flattened primers.

Luckily the Kimber barrels have excellent support around the total circumference of the casing so I saw no casing deformation. WAY too much elevated ES's for my comfort level. Weighed all my loads on my RCBS CM 1500 so it's not the charge.

**Unclenick** · October 21, 2018, 04:15 PM

The reason Hartmut Broemel gives for 800X and the SR powders not being in the QuickLOAD database is the characteristic curves he's gotten from measuring them in a vivacity bomb are too inconsistent for him to provide a model he is confident of. He believes the source manufacturers have changed too many times and the lots have therefore differed unacceptably. I have some 800X I bought 25 years ago that I've never used because of the discouraging reports I got from friends after making the purchase, so I never bothered. If I developed loads with it now, I would not be at all confident they could be replicated once my can was empty (old DuPont can). It will probably wind up fertilizing the lawn at some point.

Road_Clam · October 21, 2018, 05:01 PM

Found a good thread that illustrates my conflicting load data dillema, i'm not alone . Good info from the guys over at 10mm-firearms.com :

http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-1...9876/#msg79876

https://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-...n-about-800-x/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unclenick

I have some 800X I bought 25 years ago that I've never used because of the discouraging reports I got from friends after making the purchase, so I never bothered. If I developed loads with it now, I would not be at all confident they could be replicated once my can was empty (old DuPont can). It will probably wind up fertilizing the lawn at some point.

Let me know if you need another pound and a half of 800x dirt fertilizer.

Road_Clam · October 22, 2018, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

9 grains of 800X is over max for a 180 grain bullet. Do not exceed published Max loads.

T. O'Heir have ALL your facts gathered before preaching. My Hornady's 9th manual lists the 10mm 180 gr bullet with 800x starting charge of 6.7gr (950 fps) and max is 10.1gr (1250 fps) .

John D · October 24, 2018, 05:21 PM

in my experience, Blue Dot provides the best load for 10mm

Road_Clam · October 24, 2018, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John D

in my experience, Blue Dot provides the best load for 10mm

I'm reading that either AA#9 or Blue Dot are the go-to powders for max loadings with the heavier 180+ gr bullets. I'm unfortunately having a hard time finding these powders locally.

m&p45acp10+1 · October 26, 2018, 07:31 AM

I have not used AA9 in 10mm as of yet. I have used Blue Dot, and AA7. Both work very well with 180 grain bullets. For ease of use I will go with AA7 as it meters well from a volumetric measure. Blue Dot does not. It is larger flake, and shot shell measures are wider so it does not bridge in them the way it does in a standard measure.

Road_Clam · October 27, 2018, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m&p45acp10+1

I have not used AA9 in 10mm as of yet. I have used Blue Dot, and AA7. Both work very well with 180 grain bullets. For ease of use I will go with AA7 as it meters well from a volumetric measure. Blue Dot does not. It is larger flake, and shot shell measures are wider so it does not bridge in them the way it does in a standard measure.

I've tried for severall weeks to find AA#9 locally but no luck. I'll let you know how it works as I just got a great promo deal from Brownells and bought an 8# jug of AA9. It's a good fit for me as I load 357 mag, 44 mag, and 460 mag. AA9 will be a multi use powder for me, so a good investment.

m&p45acp10+1 · October 27, 2018, 01:02 PM

AA9 is awesome for a more powerful magnum load. It is about as versatile 2400 and is much cleaner. You can run it with cast lead which is a big reason I like it so much in .357 Mag, and .41 Mag. It worked well in .30 Carbine as well. (I run H110 for that as all of the rounds are jacketed, and I am not expecting bug hole groups from it.) I still have some Power Pistol to try for it as well. The AA7 seems to work well, and the rounds with 180 grain JHP is anything but anemic.

Blue Dot works great as long as I use my automatic powder dispenser. It is much more slow going to load.

rodfac · October 27, 2018, 08:06 PM

I've never, NEVER, had metering success with 800x....RCBS Uniflow, Lee Load all, 3 Dillon's (all smoothed out with 600 grit Wet or Dry). Variations with that SOB 800X can be up to 1/2 grain and believe me, I've tried every technique I've read to get consistency.

It's a a no-go...and I'd like to use it, dribbling it into .40 S&W and .32 H&R have given me my finest accuracy in a cpl of guns...but it's just not worth the frustration. I've used WSF as a replacement as well as Acc#7. Good luck, Rod

October 19, 2018, 07:48 PM	#1
Road_Clam Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2013 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,695	10mm and 800X NOT loader friendly ! Dam, 800X just plain sucks. First off i'm observing a LOT of wildly varying load data between Lyman's 49th, Hornady's 9th and Hodgton. Even more confusing is Hodgton doesn't list a starting load, but calls out a max load of 8.7 for my 180 gr bullets ? Furthermore this powder does NOT meter at all through my Dillon 650's powder drop. I'm trying to load a target weight of 9g of 800X and i'm getting between 8.8 up to 9.6 ?? I really wanted to buy AA#7 or #9 but both my LGS's were out of these powders. Loading up all my test loads with my RCBS Chargemaster and got things dropping nice and consistent but jeez, loading pistol old skool' single stage is hard work as compared to loading on a 650 progressive ! I've done a lot of research over the past week attempting to load for my new Kimber 10mm Target II which has a 6" bbl so I want to err on the side of cautious as 800X can be a fussy powder from 'net feedback. __________________ "To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid"

October 19, 2018, 08:41 PM	#2
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,717	I have bought exactly one pound of 800X. I'll never buy another....it would be the LAST powder I would buy in another shortage/ panic situation. Its metering ability is legendary. <Legendarily BAD> __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

October 21, 2018, 06:56 AM	#6
Road_Clam Senior Member Join Date: November 21, 2013 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,695	I have several loads and bullet profiles to test. I loaned out my Alpha Chrony and finally got it back. . Can't use my Magnetospeed V3 on a 1911. Curious to see my data. Definitely a love/hate following for 800X (more towards hate). __________________ "To be old an wise you must have been young and stupid"

October 21, 2018, 12:07 PM	#8
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	800X meters very poorly at low volume. It is a shotgun powder. In shot shell it meters just fine as measures are wider so it does not bridge to the sides. If hand weighed it works pretty darn well. Blue Dot is much the same way. I have to hand weigh Blue Dot charges. With 180 grain JHP it gives good accuracy. Though the loads are not soft shooting. I used some AA7 yesterday. While not the same accuracy as Blue Dot. It metered much better. So it sped up the loading process, and the change in accuracy if I am standing up shooting as normal I would not notice a change. For the 800x either hand weigh each charge. Or find a person that loads shot shells, and gift it to them. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

October 21, 2018, 04:15 PM	#11
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	The reason Hartmut Broemel gives for 800X and the SR powders not being in the QuickLOAD database is the characteristic curves he's gotten from measuring them in a vivacity bomb are too inconsistent for him to provide a model he is confident of. He believes the source manufacturers have changed too many times and the lots have therefore differed unacceptably. I have some 800X I bought 25 years ago that I've never used because of the discouraging reports I got from friends after making the purchase, so I never bothered. If I developed loads with it now, I would not be at all confident they could be replicated once my can was empty (old DuPont can). It will probably wind up fertilizing the lawn at some point. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

October 19, 2018, 09:04 PM	#3
BBarn Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2015 Posts: 887	800X works well in the 44 Mag for less than full power loads. Haven't tried it in anything else. Meters about like Unique.

October 19, 2018, 11:45 PM	#4
Dufus Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2014 Posts: 1,965	I tried 800X in 44 Mag with 260 gr cast bullets. All loads were weighed and trickled, so I know the powder charge was on the money. The chronograph told me to put this powder away. ES was well over 100 fps. Accuracy was non-existent.

October 21, 2018, 11:59 AM	#7
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	9 grains of 800X is over max for a 180 grain bullet. Do not exceed published Max loads. "...Hodgton doesn't list a starting load..." Hodgdon will tell you to reduce by 10% for the start load. That'd be 7.8 of 800X for a 180. "...loading pistol old skool' single stage is hard work..." Using a single stage press quickly is about technique. Primarily using both hands. Lotta powders don't flow through progressive mounted powder throwers well. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

October 21, 2018, 01:19 PM	#9
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	800x is wonderful for certain loads. Compressed, full power loads in 357sig, for example. “Full power” 10mm loads are great too. Beyond current load data though, most of which equates 10mm and .40SW. Meters just like every other powder for me... out of an RCBS Chargemaster 1500. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

October 24, 2018, 05:21 PM	#14
John D Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2000 Location: No. Arizona Posts: 436	in my experience, Blue Dot provides the best load for 10mm

October 26, 2018, 07:31 AM	#16
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	I have not used AA9 in 10mm as of yet. I have used Blue Dot, and AA7. Both work very well with 180 grain bullets. For ease of use I will go with AA7 as it meters well from a volumetric measure. Blue Dot does not. It is larger flake, and shot shell measures are wider so it does not bridge in them the way it does in a standard measure. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

October 27, 2018, 01:02 PM	#18
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	AA9 is awesome for a more powerful magnum load. It is about as versatile 2400 and is much cleaner. You can run it with cast lead which is a big reason I like it so much in .357 Mag, and .41 Mag. It worked well in .30 Carbine as well. (I run H110 for that as all of the rounds are jacketed, and I am not expecting bug hole groups from it.) I still have some Power Pistol to try for it as well. The AA7 seems to work well, and the rounds with 180 grain JHP is anything but anemic. Blue Dot works great as long as I use my automatic powder dispenser. It is much more slow going to load. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

October 27, 2018, 08:06 PM	#19
rodfac Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2005 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,624	I've never, NEVER, had metering success with 800x....RCBS Uniflow, Lee Load all, 3 Dillon's (all smoothed out with 600 grit Wet or Dry). Variations with that SOB 800X can be up to 1/2 grain and believe me, I've tried every technique I've read to get consistency. It's a a no-go...and I'd like to use it, dribbling it into .40 S&W and .32 H&R have given me my finest accuracy in a cpl of guns...but it's just not worth the frustration. I've used WSF as a replacement as well as Acc#7. Good luck, Rod __________________ Cherish our flag, honor it, defend it in word and deed, or get the hell out. Our Bill of Rights has been paid for by heros in uniform and shall not be diluted by misguided governmental social experiments. We owe this to our children, anything less is cowardice. USAF FAC, 5th Spl Forces, Vietnam Vet '69-'73.