Firing the Thompasom...what's it like?

Striker1 · May 29, 2006, 08:29 PM

I've always wanted to shoot the Thompson but since I heven't yet had the pleasure I was hoping someone here could describe the experience.

Is it controllable?

Does it have a lot of muzzle rise?

Thanks

trigger happy · May 29, 2006, 08:32 PM

I fired a World War 2 version at a range in Lawrenceville, Georgia

Bulls Eye was the name of the range

no muzzle climb..heavy enough to stay on target..what a blast

Striker1 · May 29, 2006, 09:19 PM

ONly sub I've ever fired is the UZI. It was a hoot too. I have fired the M16 series often on auto but they like to walk.

The main complaint I always here about the Thompson is the weight, but maybe that's also one of it's good design features!

gunslinger555 · May 30, 2006, 05:27 AM

perfect for trench sweeping

trigger happy · May 30, 2006, 07:11 AM

I've fired a Mini Uzi too..lots of muzzle climb..like the H&K MP-5..that range rented a few others that I fired too..like a Russian PPSh and a Sterling

MisterPX · May 30, 2006, 07:30 AM

Kinda heavy, but that was good in negating recoil. A VERY fun gun to shoot (M1). Put the second biggest **** eatin grin on my face, the biggest being an original bringback MP40.

Sarge · May 30, 2006, 08:03 AM

Surprisingly controllable.... slow cyclic rate & that big, heavy bolt cycling back & forth almost acts like a gyroscope. They are also more accurate than you might imagine. Boringly reliable- I never saw a jam in probably 500-600 rounds fired, between two guns. Both stick (M1A1) and drum (1921 model) were used. Many years ago we shot the 1921 to 150 yards, and had no trouble hitting a B27 on semi-auto. I only shot the M1A1 to about 50, but any exposed opponent within that range would have been 'stitched up' in short order.

They are heavy, and I much prefer the sticks to the drums for mobility's sake. I imagine that 3-6 rounds of .45 hardball landing almost simultaneously was entirely effective at settling accounts. It's no wonder that these guns were popular with the troops, cops & crooks of its time.

Some cool pics at http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg29-e.htm

BigG · May 30, 2006, 10:55 AM

I don't know about the guy who said it had no muzzle rise. Maybe he was firing blanks? The bolt weighs about 3 pounds and its reciprocating motion is enough to cause it to rise pretty hard. The gun is slow firing and accurate. Putt putt putt, but way nicer built than a submachine gun has to be. That's because it was one of the first, and the first 10,000 were built for them by Colt's. Beautiful weapons.

mec · May 30, 2006, 05:25 PM

I fired this MI Thompson a few months ago. It has a slow cycle rate compared to the early ones and it is easy to fire single shots with the gun set on full auto. I was able to keep three to four round bursts in this at twenty five yards:

If I tried to hold it down for longer burst, not only would it climb off the target but my overcontrol would scatter rounds low and to the right of the intended point of impact.

This large shooter was able to fire long bursts and hold the gun on target. I'm not sure exactly how his group was but the picture was taken in low light. Several cases are visible in the air and there is little or no gun movement.

Shooting the thompson was as much fun as I wanted it to be and more fun than I expected.

trigger happy · May 30, 2006, 10:58 PM

give it a shot

BigG · May 31, 2006, 08:59 AM

I shot the 1928 Model years ago. Not really interested in the M1 or M1A1 Thompsons.

I go to Bullseye about every six months or so.

I fired their UZI, which was fun. They also have a Colt 9mm SMG that is nice.

Phil Ca · May 31, 2006, 10:47 AM

Many years ago I got a chance to fire the Thompson, a 1928 model at our field office at Fort knox while on a TDY assignment. I liked the sturdiness and reliability. In Vietnam I had a M3A1, "Grease Gun" in .45 ACP. The old M3A1 was easier to care for than the Thompson would be.

BTW, in the 20's the Thompson was advertised as a good ranch gun to keep away bandits and predators.

**44 AMP** · June 1, 2006, 02:54 PM

Controlling muzzle rise on the Thompson is just a matter of technique. Being extremely heavy (compared to later designs), recoil in full auto tends to balance the weight of the gun, and most of the muzzle rise is from the shooter still exerting pressure to hold the gun up. This can take a while to learn, but once you get it down, it is rather amazing what a Tommy gun can do.

akviper · June 2, 2006, 12:01 AM

Technique is the trick to shooting sub guns full auto. If you stand upright and try to shoot them like a target rifle they will rock you back and you will have difficulty keeping control. I have many thousands of rounds through the MP5, Uzi, and Thompson M1A1. Get your weight forward on your weak leg and pull the gun into your shoulder or armpit. The recoil pulse is easily overcome by your body weight. With technique and practice you can dump an entire magazine into a pieplate at 15 yards.

BigG · June 2, 2006, 08:01 AM

I'll try that next time I shoot a Thompson. Just need to make sure to stop the gun from falling as you let off the trigger.

Mikeyboy · June 2, 2006, 08:19 AM

Long time ago I had a chance to shoot a full auto Thompson and a Uzi. The Uzi had typical muzzle climb and the thompson did not. It was heavy, but it felt so right holding and shooting. Recoil was not too bad, and I love the slow Chunk,chunk,chuck rate of fire.

jeff54 · June 2, 2006, 01:43 PM

I have fired both a '28 and M1 and have a Grease Gun and if you think the '28 has a slow rate of fire wait till you cut the ROF by a third (down to 400) then you will have a slow firing gun !! I took my Grease Gun to the range (outdoor and not supervised) and used one hand, swung the gun up and down range and fired the whole 30rds!! I had no problem holding the gun up and level while holding it with one hand, But when the mag was empty it fell down to my side. I would not recommend this, but it was FUN!!!!!

hockea · June 2, 2006, 04:42 PM

A great shoot Thompsons are!

B.FRANKlin · June 4, 2006, 10:52 PM

Thompsons are HEAVY, around 15 lb. empty! On single shot use, there is no recoil since it's weight vs. .45 acp negates it. They are fun and cool and neat, but they are HEAVY. Not a good gun for fun plinking in the woods, too HEAVY. If you know where you can get a full-auto Thompson that's not hot and won't break the bank to buy, you better grab it. There weren't that many made in the first place, and you have to know someone that wants to sell theirs (or be damn lucky and in the right place at the right time with more money than the last guy). They don't show up very often. And they're gone quick!

Johnny Guest · June 5, 2006, 02:20 AM

Yes, the TSMG is heavy. Small Arms of the World, Smith & Smith, lists the M1928A1 as weighing 10.75 pounds, and the M1 and M1A1 at 10.45. My '28 with horizontal forearm, Kerr sling, and loaded 50-round drum runs near 14 pounds.

I read most of this thread before attending a submachine gun match last Saturday and tried to make some objective observations that would prove of value. Unfortunately, I was the only one shooting a TSMG in the contest, so my observation of others was limited to one man with an M1A1 and two guys shooting my gun and one other, after the match was over.

If you examine the images posted by mec, it is clear that the line of the bore is well above the buttplate of the guns. The drop at the heel of the stock is pretty extreme, and it can be seen that, given the low pivot point, the tendency is for the muzzle to rise under heavy recoil. The substantial weight of the gun reduces the felt recoil effect greatly, so there is little "kick" felt by the shooter. At the same time, there is a fair amount of energy being expended. The shooter really contributes to the muzzle rise thusly: As he fires, he holds the foregrip tightly, trying to control the muzzle rise. The muzzle does indeed rise somewhat but the weight of the weapon is not allowed to hold it down, because the the shooter is actually holding it UP. When the next round fires, the muzzle rises a bit more, and so forth with suceeding shots.

A 1921 or 1928 with a Cutts Compensator is fairly easy to control, because a portion on the muzzle blast is redirected upward, forcing the muzzle downward. Even the uncompensated guns, such as am M1A1 with a 30 round magazine, is heavy enough to sty fairly level, IF the foreend is not held in a death grip, and gravity is allowed to hold down the gun. Decades ago, I learned from Bill Toney, Border Patrol firearms instructor, that a TSMG is easily controled by resting the foreend or magazine on the open palm, and restricting bursts to five or six rounds. The gun just bounces up and down a bit but settles between shots. With sufficient practice, it is no great trick to take down five or six bowling pins, spaced a couple of feet apart, with one long burst, at about 25 feet.

My neice weighs about 110, and she has no trouble shooting a compensated M1928 with a Type XX magazine.

Of course, the gun looks a bit smaller when the shooter is six-five and 250 or so.

Speaking of slow rates of fire, I've never had the pleasure of shooting an M3 grease gun, but I'm impressed with how gentle and sedate a Sten Gun can be. And I fired a Swedish Carl Gustav M45 on Saturday. SMOTW shows it weighs 9.25 pouinds with 36 rounds loaded. Same reference indicates rate of fire as 550 to 600 RPM, but I doubt this particular gun ran over 450. Firing it was a hoot!

TNT · June 5, 2006, 03:58 PM

firing a Thompson is almost better than sex

gunslinger555 · June 5, 2006, 05:11 PM

TNT, nope i wouldent take it that far

TNT · June 5, 2006, 06:10 PM

Almost is the key word here

gunslinger555 · June 5, 2006, 09:04 PM

almost i noticed, its the word better that i disagree with.

hockea · June 18, 2006, 08:08 AM

Sorry for the delay on the learning curve in posting pics.

May 29, 2006, 08:29 PM	#1
Striker1 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2004 Location: TX Posts: 710	Firing the Thompasom...what's it like? I've always wanted to shoot the Thompson but since I heven't yet had the pleasure I was hoping someone here could describe the experience. Is it controllable? Does it have a lot of muzzle rise? Thanks

May 29, 2006, 08:32 PM	#2
trigger happy Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2006 Location: Pensacola Posts: 759	I fired a World War 2 version at a range in Lawrenceville, Georgia Bulls Eye was the name of the range no muzzle climb..heavy enough to stay on target..what a blast __________________ "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass" Admiral Yamamoto "You have enemies ? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life" Winston Churchill

May 30, 2006, 05:27 AM	#4
gunslinger555 Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2006 Location: Lima, ohio Posts: 580	perfect for trench sweeping __________________ (")_(") OMG!!! I think I shot bunny in the face!

May 30, 2006, 07:11 AM	#5
trigger happy Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2006 Location: Pensacola Posts: 759	I've fired a Mini Uzi too..lots of muzzle climb..like the H&K MP-5..that range rented a few others that I fired too..like a Russian PPSh and a Sterling __________________ "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass" Admiral Yamamoto "You have enemies ? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life" Winston Churchill

May 30, 2006, 08:03 AM	#7
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	Surprisingly controllable.... slow cyclic rate & that big, heavy bolt cycling back & forth almost acts like a gyroscope. They are also more accurate than you might imagine. Boringly reliable- I never saw a jam in probably 500-600 rounds fired, between two guns. Both stick (M1A1) and drum (1921 model) were used. Many years ago we shot the 1921 to 150 yards, and had no trouble hitting a B27 on semi-auto. I only shot the M1A1 to about 50, but any exposed opponent within that range would have been 'stitched up' in short order. They are heavy, and I much prefer the sticks to the drums for mobility's sake. I imagine that 3-6 rounds of .45 hardball landing almost simultaneously was entirely effective at settling accounts. It's no wonder that these guns were popular with the troops, cops & crooks of its time. Some cool pics at http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg29-e.htm __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

May 29, 2006, 09:19 PM	#3
Striker1 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2004 Location: TX Posts: 710	ONly sub I've ever fired is the UZI. It was a hoot too. I have fired the M16 series often on auto but they like to walk. The main complaint I always here about the Thompson is the weight, but maybe that's also one of it's good design features!

May 30, 2006, 07:30 AM	#6
MisterPX Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2006 Location: Amerika's Doyleland Posts: 809	Kinda heavy, but that was good in negating recoil. A VERY fun gun to shoot (M1). Put the second biggest **** eatin grin on my face, the biggest being an original bringback MP40.

May 30, 2006, 10:55 AM	#8
BigG Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,334	1928 Model I don't know about the guy who said it had no muzzle rise. Maybe he was firing blanks? The bolt weighs about 3 pounds and its reciprocating motion is enough to cause it to rise pretty hard. The gun is slow firing and accurate. Putt putt putt, but way nicer built than a submachine gun has to be. That's because it was one of the first, and the first 10,000 were built for them by Colt's. Beautiful weapons. __________________ o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC

May 30, 2006, 05:25 PM	#9
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	I fired this MI Thompson a few months ago. It has a slow cycle rate compared to the early ones and it is easy to fire single shots with the gun set on full auto. I was able to keep three to four round bursts in this at twenty five yards: If I tried to hold it down for longer burst, not only would it climb off the target but my overcontrol would scatter rounds low and to the right of the intended point of impact. This large shooter was able to fire long bursts and hold the gun on target. I'm not sure exactly how his group was but the picture was taken in low light. Several cases are visible in the air and there is little or no gun movement. Shooting the thompson was as much fun as I wanted it to be and more fun than I expected.

May 30, 2006, 10:58 PM	#10
trigger happy Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2006 Location: Pensacola Posts: 759	BigG you live in Atlanta..Lawrenceville is a whole 25 miles away give it a shot __________________ "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass" Admiral Yamamoto "You have enemies ? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life" Winston Churchill

May 31, 2006, 08:59 AM	#11
BigG Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,334	I shot the 1928 Model years ago. Not really interested in the M1 or M1A1 Thompsons. I go to Bullseye about every six months or so. I fired their UZI, which was fun. They also have a Colt 9mm SMG that is nice. __________________ o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC

May 31, 2006, 10:47 AM	#12
Phil Ca Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 2000 Location: Central Valley, PRK Posts: 238	Many years ago I got a chance to fire the Thompson, a 1928 model at our field office at Fort knox while on a TDY assignment. I liked the sturdiness and reliability. In Vietnam I had a M3A1, "Grease Gun" in .45 ACP. The old M3A1 was easier to care for than the Thompson would be. BTW, in the 20's the Thompson was advertised as a good ranch gun to keep away bandits and predators.

June 1, 2006, 02:54 PM	#13
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,833	muzzle rise Controlling muzzle rise on the Thompson is just a matter of technique. Being extremely heavy (compared to later designs), recoil in full auto tends to balance the weight of the gun, and most of the muzzle rise is from the shooter still exerting pressure to hold the gun up. This can take a while to learn, but once you get it down, it is rather amazing what a Tommy gun can do.

June 2, 2006, 12:01 AM	#14
akviper Member Join Date: June 3, 2005 Posts: 35	Technique is the trick to shooting sub guns full auto. If you stand upright and try to shoot them like a target rifle they will rock you back and you will have difficulty keeping control. I have many thousands of rounds through the MP5, Uzi, and Thompson M1A1. Get your weight forward on your weak leg and pull the gun into your shoulder or armpit. The recoil pulse is easily overcome by your body weight. With technique and practice you can dump an entire magazine into a pieplate at 15 yards.

June 2, 2006, 08:01 AM	#15
BigG Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 1999 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 4,334	Recoil balances weight - I'll try that next time I shoot a Thompson. Just need to make sure to stop the gun from falling as you let off the trigger. __________________ o "The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery and corruption abound. Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast approaching." Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC o "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." Mark Twain o "They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?" Paul Harvey o TODAY WE CARVE OUT OUR OWN OMENS! Leonidas, Thermopylae, 480 BC

June 2, 2006, 08:19 AM	#16
Mikeyboy Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Posts: 1,231	Long time ago I had a chance to shoot a full auto Thompson and a Uzi. The Uzi had typical muzzle climb and the thompson did not. It was heavy, but it felt so right holding and shooting. Recoil was not too bad, and I love the slow Chunk,chunk,chuck rate of fire.

June 2, 2006, 01:43 PM	#17
jeff54 Member Join Date: May 24, 2004 Location: North Dakota Posts: 18	I have fired both a '28 and M1 and have a Grease Gun and if you think the '28 has a slow rate of fire wait till you cut the ROF by a third (down to 400) then you will have a slow firing gun !! I took my Grease Gun to the range (outdoor and not supervised) and used one hand, swung the gun up and down range and fired the whole 30rds!! I had no problem holding the gun up and level while holding it with one hand, But when the mag was empty it fell down to my side. I would not recommend this, but it was FUN!!!!!

June 2, 2006, 04:42 PM	#18
hockea Member Join Date: November 7, 2004 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 37	A great shoot Thompsons are!

June 4, 2006, 10:52 PM	#19
B.FRANKlin Junior member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Posts: 6	Thompsons are HEAVY, around 15 lb. empty! On single shot use, there is no recoil since it's weight vs. .45 acp negates it. They are fun and cool and neat, but they are HEAVY. Not a good gun for fun plinking in the woods, too HEAVY. If you know where you can get a full-auto Thompson that's not hot and won't break the bank to buy, you better grab it. There weren't that many made in the first place, and you have to know someone that wants to sell theirs (or be damn lucky and in the right place at the right time with more money than the last guy). They don't show up very often. And they're gone quick!

June 5, 2006, 02:20 AM	#20
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	Personal impressions Yes, the TSMG is heavy. Small Arms of the World, Smith & Smith, lists the M1928A1 as weighing 10.75 pounds, and the M1 and M1A1 at 10.45. My '28 with horizontal forearm, Kerr sling, and loaded 50-round drum runs near 14 pounds. I read most of this thread before attending a submachine gun match last Saturday and tried to make some objective observations that would prove of value. Unfortunately, I was the only one shooting a TSMG in the contest, so my observation of others was limited to one man with an M1A1 and two guys shooting my gun and one other, after the match was over. If you examine the images posted by mec, it is clear that the line of the bore is well above the buttplate of the guns. The drop at the heel of the stock is pretty extreme, and it can be seen that, given the low pivot point, the tendency is for the muzzle to rise under heavy recoil. The substantial weight of the gun reduces the felt recoil effect greatly, so there is little "kick" felt by the shooter. At the same time, there is a fair amount of energy being expended. The shooter really contributes to the muzzle rise thusly: As he fires, he holds the foregrip tightly, trying to control the muzzle rise. The muzzle does indeed rise somewhat but the weight of the weapon is not allowed to hold it down, because the the shooter is actually holding it UP. When the next round fires, the muzzle rises a bit more, and so forth with suceeding shots. A 1921 or 1928 with a Cutts Compensator is fairly easy to control, because a portion on the muzzle blast is redirected upward, forcing the muzzle downward. Even the uncompensated guns, such as am M1A1 with a 30 round magazine, is heavy enough to sty fairly level, IF the foreend is not held in a death grip, and gravity is allowed to hold down the gun. Decades ago, I learned from Bill Toney, Border Patrol firearms instructor, that a TSMG is easily controled by resting the foreend or magazine on the open palm, and restricting bursts to five or six rounds. The gun just bounces up and down a bit but settles between shots. With sufficient practice, it is no great trick to take down five or six bowling pins, spaced a couple of feet apart, with one long burst, at about 25 feet. My neice weighs about 110, and she has no trouble shooting a compensated M1928 with a Type XX magazine. Of course, the gun looks a bit smaller when the shooter is six-five and 250 or so. Speaking of slow rates of fire, I've never had the pleasure of shooting an M3 grease gun, but I'm impressed with how gentle and sedate a Sten Gun can be. And I fired a Swedish Carl Gustav M45 on Saturday. SMOTW shows it weighs 9.25 pouinds with 36 rounds loaded. Same reference indicates rate of fire as 550 to 600 RPM, but I doubt this particular gun ran over 450. Firing it was a hoot!

June 5, 2006, 03:58 PM	#21
TNT Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: Back in glorious Nebraska Posts: 606	firing a Thompson is almost better than sex __________________ "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man and brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."

June 5, 2006, 05:11 PM	#22
gunslinger555 Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2006 Location: Lima, ohio Posts: 580	TNT, nope i wouldent take it that far __________________ (")_(") OMG!!! I think I shot bunny in the face!

June 5, 2006, 06:10 PM	#23
TNT Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: Back in glorious Nebraska Posts: 606	Almost is the key word here __________________ "In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man and brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."

June 5, 2006, 09:04 PM	#24
gunslinger555 Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2006 Location: Lima, ohio Posts: 580	almost i noticed, its the word better that i disagree with. __________________ (")_(") OMG!!! I think I shot bunny in the face!

June 18, 2006, 08:08 AM	#25
hockea Member Join Date: November 7, 2004 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 37	Sorry for the delay on the learning curve in posting pics.