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Old October 22, 2019, 12:43 PM   #26
Aguila Blanca
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Maybe the study was conducted entirely within neighborhoods in which everyone was exposed to lead as a child. That's likely to be the case in many inner city areas.
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Old October 22, 2019, 12:55 PM   #27
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It’s simply not possible to evaluate the quality of a scientific study and its conclusions from a brief summary in the mainstream media.

You don't need to. There are numerous articles and studies.
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Old October 22, 2019, 02:59 PM   #28
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Given that we nearly universally used lead paint in housing/structures for over 100 years, and in toys, ostensibly ending in the 1970s, I have to wonder about the lack of violence in non inner city areas.
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Old October 22, 2019, 03:03 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
Given that we nearly universally used lead paint in housing/structures for over 100 years, and in toys, ostensibly ending in the 1970s, I have to wonder about the lack of violence in non inner city areas.
We could go on and on about places where the crime level is rising and lead levels are falling but lets not go there.
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Old October 22, 2019, 03:40 PM   #30
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We can fix the problem if we just ban poverty.
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Old October 22, 2019, 05:23 PM   #31
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We can fix the problem if we just ban poverty.
Essentially poverty has already been eliminated in the US. Some people have more than others but people beg on the streets for drug money not food money. What we consider to be "poor" most countries of the world view as middle class.
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Old October 22, 2019, 08:03 PM   #32
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Terrorism also leads to lead exposure too.

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What we consider to be "poor" most countries of the world view as middle class.
In some places our poor would be considered wealthy.
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Old October 23, 2019, 06:09 AM   #33
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Essentially poverty has already been eliminated in the US. Some people have more than others but people beg on the streets for drug money not food money. What we consider to be "poor" most countries of the world view as middle class.
Maybe there is a correlation between aggressive panhandling and lead exposure.

I read some article on poverty a while back and it said something about the majority of what is considered impoverished in the USA, had a TV and refrigerator in their homes.

- 80 percent of poor households have air conditioning. In 1970, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning.
- 92 percent of poor households have a microwave.
- Nearly three-fourths have a car or truck, and 31 percent have two or more cars or trucks.
- Nearly two-thirds have cable or satellite TV.
- Two-thirds have at least one DVD player, and 70 percent have a VCR.
- Half have a personal computer, and one in seven have two or more computers.
- More than half of poor families with children have a video game system, such as an Xbox or PlayStation.
- 43 percent have Internet access.
- One-third have a wide-screen plasma or LCD TV.
- One-fourth have a digital video recorder system, such as a TiVo.

https://www.heritage.org/poverty-and...ng-facts-about

There are people that live rough and then there are people that live rough. This country definitely has some serious poverty, but the difference is, the people here would not survive overseas or even south of the border.

I'm surprised the panhandlers down in Raleigh-Durham haven't organized yet and have union representation. They live in a patch of woods by every interstate intersection and rotate to the intersection in shifts... must have been the lead.
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Old October 23, 2019, 08:31 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by MTT TL
Essentially poverty has already been eliminated in the US.
I'm certain there are some portion of children and the elderly who are not fed, clothed and housed adequately, but this has less to do with scarce materiel than a caretaker's poor decision.

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In some places our poor would be considered wealthy.
As a material matter, that's clearly true and reflects how we use the words "poor" and "poverty". A person can have a car, spaceous apartment with air conditioning, enough food, medical care and something approximating an academic education, but still make a range of life choices that will leave him without hope. When we discuss the poor, we seem to often be describing these people without a hope of a productive and independent future.
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Old October 23, 2019, 03:35 PM   #35
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Essentially poverty has already been eliminated in the US. Some people have more than others but people beg on the streets for drug money not food money. What we consider to be "poor" most countries of the world view as middle class.
I guess my hyperbole got lost in translation somewhere....
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Old October 23, 2019, 04:57 PM   #36
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In some places our poor would be considered wealthy.
I agree, and that’s something that has really stayed with me since my army days. I appreciate how good the majority of Americans have it and makes me appreciate our country more.

But, the USA’s infrastructure is in an atrocious state. We have rampant government corruption, mismanagement and wasteful use of funds. The poor areas of the country get less attention in maintenance budgets. And of course, the county commissioner has no potholes on their street. I got to see that first hand.
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Old October 26, 2019, 11:39 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
Given that we nearly universally used lead paint in housing/structures for over 100 years, and in toys, ostensibly ending in the 1970s, I have to wonder about the lack of violence in non inner city areas.
Lead paint wasn't universally used, lead was only used in high-end expensive paints. And in general homeowners that could afford lead paint could afford to keep their properties property maintained. Lead paint isn't a problem unless it begins to flake off the walls, or is rubbed off by friction as in a window opening and closing. So it wasn't a problem for the original inhabitants who installed it, but became a big problem years later when the once rich area became a poor area and maintenance was neglected and paint begins peeling off the walls and the old windows aren't replaced.
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Old October 26, 2019, 03:21 PM   #38
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Lead paint wasn't universally used, lead was only used in high-end expensive paints. And in general homeowners that could afford lead paint could afford to keep their properties property maintained. Lead paint isn't a problem unless it begins to flake off the walls, or is rubbed off by friction as in a window opening and closing. So it wasn't a problem for the original inhabitants who installed it, but became a big problem years later when the once rich area became a poor area and maintenance was neglected and paint begins peeling off the walls and the old windows aren't replaced.
Really? According to this company that does home inspections, lead paint usage in housing peaked in 1922.
https://www.joneswarren.com/single-p...-United-States

Also by the 1920s, lead poisoning in children was recognized as a common ailment in the US. https://ajph.aphapublications.org/do...JPH.79.12.1668

While it was known by the 1900s that lead paint was a problem, in the 1930s, the industry rejected the science of lead causing problems in children, claiming the children were "sub-normal" to begin with...
https://scienceprogress.org/2008/10/...ad-regulation/
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Old October 27, 2019, 03:04 PM   #39
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Lead paint wasn't universally used, lead was only used in high-end expensive paints.
Rather than dispute your claim - I'm putting it on you to cite references.


In my 25 plus years of working in the paint and coatings industry - I never heard that one before....
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Old October 27, 2019, 06:43 PM   #40
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I'm surprised the panhandlers down in Raleigh-Durham haven't organized yet and have union representation. They live in a patch of woods by every interstate intersection and rotate to the intersection in shifts... must have been the lead.
I just moved to the Raleigh-Durham area from Southern Maine. If you want to see a real panhandler problem spend a day in Portland. They run that town. In August I spent three hours there and saw two overdoses on the street, dozens of open drug deals, a panhandler on every single traffic island, and people camping in store fronts. Haven't seen anything like that around here yet.

Any parent who hasn't been aware of the dangers of lead paint chips for the past couple of generations most likely wasn't aware of a number of other risk factors. Poor people in the United States are definitely well off compared to poverty in the rest of the world. However that doesn't mean that they're teaching their kids right from wrong.
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Old October 28, 2019, 09:13 AM   #41
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I live across the river from Portland... the homeless problem is incredibly bad trash is everywhere. A lot of it is spilling into Clark County, WA. But the issue isn’t related lead exposure, it is a local government issue. Portland has somewhat of a gang issue, but not as bad as other cities. The trendy population of Portland enjoys the conditions and they like living in the “gritty” city and will get really hopping mad if you mention how dirty the city is.
Lots of Victorian and Craftsman style homes have survived in the Portland area, but I haven’t heard of lead issues. Despite the fact that middle class style homes are priced beyond what I consider affordable to the middle class, people are moving into the region in droves. Gentrification is in full practice, adding to the problem as well.
To top it all off, you have a large police force that no economic, social or political populations has any appreciation of.
Lead may be one factor that leads to higher rates of violence, I suspect that other factors may have a larger contribution to crime rates, and increased lead exposure just happens to line up with the main factors.
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Old October 28, 2019, 06:15 PM   #42
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We have rampant government corruption, mismanagement and wasteful use of funds.
Yep....

Just like any Banana Republic in the Third World, you can get into "public service" and make millions now.

Gone are the days when the President borrowed money for a battery to drive home after his term and paid the PEOPLE back for it.

I just laugh every time I hear somebody defend Biden and his son for their laundering of millions of taxpayer dollars thru Ukraine.

Sure, it was legal.....

That is the problem.
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Old October 29, 2019, 02:27 PM   #43
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Lead may be one factor that leads to higher rates of violence, I suspect that other factors may have a larger contribution to crime rates, and increased lead exposure just happens to line up with the main factors.
Has anyone (besides those of us here) considered the possibility that lead exposure might not be the cause of the violence, but just an environmental factor that is "along for the ride" so to speak?

That other factors are the determining factors and created conditions where greater lead exposure was part of the environment along with "increased violence"??

Determining lead exposer is the cause is an OPINION, and I think one not supported by much, considering that for every violent individual there are literally thousands if not millions of people with exactly the same environmental conditions who do NOT commit violence??

In other words, IF A causes B then why doesn't it cause B in EVERYONE??

Why are we not (completely) a society of mad reavers bent on death and destruction? Some individuals are, but generally ,we are not, which leaves me to doubt the claim that lead is the cause.

I think individual choice, and, to a degree societal "norms" are the determining factors. A century ago, someone using bad language in front of a lady could be physically beaten, and society considered that proper. Today, its assault and they will put you in jail. It was assault then, but nobody cared. That's the kind of thing I mean by societal norms.

Yes, a lot of the hardcore criminals grew up in poor disadvantaged conditions, but so did a lot more people who didn't become criminals.

Environmental conditions are something you can LINK to behavior, something you can co-relate, but stating they are a definitive cause is a conclusion, an opinion, not facts.

Kind of like saying everyone who drinks water, drowns. Not true as far as I can see.
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Old November 1, 2019, 04:48 AM   #44
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Our neighborhood had a lead study done about 1964-65, I don't remember exactly, but we lived down the street from a really busy road that had thousands of cars and trucks on it every day, and the lead levels in the yards and houses along that road and the people who lived in them, were crazy high, and around 1980, lead levels were remeasured and they had dropped by a huge margin. I don't know if there was any correlation, but it seemed like a lot of the kids who grew up along the "big road" were "problem children". Several have been in and one still is in prison. He has done some incredibly dumb impulsive crimes over the years, and his siblings all have police records. His greatest failure in crime was when he tried to hire two drug addicts to murder his father and stepmom. He wanted their house and $$$. One of the two hitmen got shot while he bravely waited in the car and they soon ratted him out when the one that got shot was ID'ed as one of the shooters after he walked into an ER claiming he had been robbed. He was always high on my list of people I wanted nothing to do with. His latest deal was robbing at gunpoint a pizza shop where they knew him by name. I guess he wanted to go back to prison. He won't get out before he's 72 this time.
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Old November 3, 2019, 10:49 AM   #45
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Has anyone (besides those of us here) considered the possibility that lead exposure might not be the cause of the violence, but just an environmental factor that is "along for the ride" so to speak?
Sure, We exposed a lot of folks to lead as a RESULT of their violence.
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