Arrested, Cleared, But Gun Not Returned - Page 2

KyJim · November 22, 2013, 10:13 PM

Quote:

what if you purchased the firearm through a private sale, not knowing it was stolen previously from the person who purchased it originally, and that owner was never made whole, as in firearm returned?

A thief cannot convey good title. The risk of loss is therefore on the buyer.

ThesNazud · November 23, 2013, 02:50 PM

Ok, slightly off topic, but I believe within the scope...

I saw a few people posting about digging up 4473's as proof of ownership in retrieving a firearm. My question is, is it ok, and/or legal to request a copy of your 4473 at purchase to keep with your own personal records? I worked at a LGS a few years ago and never saw this, but the discussion made me wonder...

62coltnavy · November 27, 2013, 01:57 AM

If the crook's appeal is successful there would be a new trial, and the guns would again be needed as evidence. They could not be used as evidence if the chain of custody is broken.

Evidence of what? The old man was not accused of a crime--they took the gun that he used to shoot the BG. Further, there were only two guys in the house, and they both ended up getting shot. And the BG was arrested at the scene. Does it matter what gun was used to shoot which? Or is it a defense to say, Yeah I shot him, but that wasn't the gun I used." (I don't think so.) There are only two defenses available to the BG--I didn't shoot him, he shot himself, or I shot him in self defense. The gun is an irrelevancy.

**Frank Ettin** · November 27, 2013, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 62coltnavy

...Evidence of what? The old man was not accused of a crime--they took the gun that he used to shoot the BG...

The purpose of a trial is to determine the facts -- what happened. Each side will usually have its own version of the event; and each side will tell its story, supporting its story with testimony and other evidence -- including physical evidence. The jury then decides what they believe happened -- applying the law to what they have concluded are the facts in order to reach a verdict.

All manner of things which fit into the story of the incident, as told by either side, will then be evidence. If a couple of people each had guns and each fired his gun, part of telling the story is to identify who fired which gun and where each of the bullets went.

In a trial each side telling its story is a highly formalized process.

steve4102 · November 27, 2013, 07:59 AM

OK, then let me ask you this.

If an LEO shoots a bad guy and the bad guy is arrested, does the police weapon get confiscated, used as evidence in the shooting and held in the evidence locker until the case is officially closed?

JERRYS. · November 27, 2013, 09:16 AM

Quote:

If an LEO shoots a bad guy and the bad guy is arrested, does the police weapon get confiscated, used as evidence in the shooting and held in the evidence locker until the case is officially closed?

yes, we have three of them like that now.

steve4102 · November 27, 2013, 09:33 AM

Quote:

yes, we have three of them like that now.

Are these "cases" you refer to concerning the BG or the LEO?

If the LEO was cleared and it was deemed a good shoot, are their Firearms still being held for evidence in the trial of the BG?

KyJim · November 27, 2013, 10:41 AM

I don't know Georgia law or procedure but I do know that in some jurisdictions it is not necessary to always retain a gun involved in a shooting post-trial. I've seen many trials where photographs are taken of the gun and substituted for the gun itself following trial. I've even seen photographs used as the actual trial exhibits. There just needs to be adequate time and notice so that the defense can conduct whatever testing they might feel appropriate; i.e., ballistic, fingerprinting, etc. Obviously, those kinds of tests are sometimes not necessary.

You can't substitute photos for exhibits all the time. Sometimes, the circumstances of the alleged crime dictate conservation of that evidence.

November 23, 2013, 02:50 PM	#27
ThesNazud Member Join Date: June 3, 2013 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 98	Ok, slightly off topic, but I believe within the scope... I saw a few people posting about digging up 4473's as proof of ownership in retrieving a firearm. My question is, is it ok, and/or legal to request a copy of your 4473 at purchase to keep with your own personal records? I worked at a LGS a few years ago and never saw this, but the discussion made me wonder...

November 27, 2013, 01:57 AM	#28
62coltnavy Senior Member Join Date: February 1, 2011 Posts: 356	If the crook's appeal is successful there would be a new trial, and the guns would again be needed as evidence. They could not be used as evidence if the chain of custody is broken. Evidence of what? The old man was not accused of a crime--they took the gun that he used to shoot the BG. Further, there were only two guys in the house, and they both ended up getting shot. And the BG was arrested at the scene. Does it matter what gun was used to shoot which? Or is it a defense to say, Yeah I shot him, but that wasn't the gun I used." (I don't think so.) There are only two defenses available to the BG--I didn't shoot him, he shot himself, or I shot him in self defense. The gun is an irrelevancy.

November 27, 2013, 07:59 AM	#30
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,955	OK, then let me ask you this. If an LEO shoots a bad guy and the bad guy is arrested, does the police weapon get confiscated, used as evidence in the shooting and held in the evidence locker until the case is officially closed?

November 27, 2013, 10:41 AM	#33
KyJim Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2005 Location: The Bluegrass Posts: 9,142	I don't know Georgia law or procedure but I do know that in some jurisdictions it is not necessary to always retain a gun involved in a shooting post-trial. I've seen many trials where photographs are taken of the gun and substituted for the gun itself following trial. I've even seen photographs used as the actual trial exhibits. There just needs to be adequate time and notice so that the defense can conduct whatever testing they might feel appropriate; i.e., ballistic, fingerprinting, etc. Obviously, those kinds of tests are sometimes not necessary. You can't substitute photos for exhibits all the time. Sometimes, the circumstances of the alleged crime dictate conservation of that evidence.