Swaging cases into bullets

[50 shooter]

Does anyone know who makes the dies to swage pistol and rifle cases into bullets?

There used to be a website that had a lot if info on it, where to buy supplies...

From what I remember, the bullets made from old cases were pretty accurate. I know CH4D doesn't have the dies for it, maybe someone here has some good info.

[reddog81]

I am not familiar with swagging other than what I have read over on the Cast Boolit forum. There is a member over there that sells the dies - BT Sniper. He has a section in the vendor sponsors area.

Any of the dies i've seen for sale are very expensive - at least a couple hunderd bucks a pop for a single die and pushing a grand or more for a set that will turn a 9mm case into a 40 S&W bullet.

It seems like a very interesting process and I was completely amazed when I first stumbled upon it, however the cost has kept me away. Molds for casting lead bullets are much cheaper, easier and it's a much faster process.

[jaguarxk120]

Try the Corbin web site. They make all kinds of swaging equipment.
Please note bullet swaging equipment is not cheap.

[Grey_Lion]

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

I've got BT-Sniper's HP die to turn annealed 9mm luger brass into .40 JHP projectiles and I've done some 800 rounds with it thus far. Both my Glock 35 and my HiPoint .40 carbine fire them without issue.

One warning - at about 600 rounds, I broke a rockchucker press which isn't designed to handle the pressures involved. There's a couple threads on this board with pictures of the rounds plus the broken rockchucker. I now have a Walnut Hill swage press mounted on my bench which is rated to handle the pressures involved.

One overlooked benefit of these projectiles made from pistol brass is the ejector ring on the brass is GREAT for removing any accumulated leading you may have in your barrel from cast rounds.

I have the Corbin die set for .40 but haven't yet used them. I've still got enough rounds from the BT Sniper die to keep me in JHP's for the time being.

Let me know if you have more specific questions and I'll fill you in if I know the answer.

[Unclenick]

Grey Lion,

I put the high pressure load warning into your post because of this statement:

One overlooked benefit of these projectiles made from pistol brass is the ejector ring on the brass is GREAT for removing any accumulated leading you may have in your barrel from cast rounds.

And I'll ask you to do the same if you repeat that information in other posts.

We have enough information from the industry about guns damaged by firing jacketed ammunition to "clean" lead, that I consider it necessary. The lead acts like a high viscosity grease in the barrel and considerable pressure can be raised when the ogive perimeter wedges it between the bore and the bearing surface of the bullet. That happens before the trailing extractor profile gets to it to do any cleaning, so the high pressure is not avoided by having that profile present.

[50 shooter]

Making smaller rounds would be a plus, know anyone that's used rifle brass to make .50 projos? Specifically 300 WM for some frangable projos?

Would like to stay away from hydraulic prices on the press. I can see buying one if I was making them for a business but not for myself.

[armoredman]

I wanted that Corbin setup to turn 22lr expended brass into .224 bullets, but the price tag is redonkulously high.

[Grey_Lion]

Originally Posted by armoredman

I wanted that Corbin setup to turn 22lr expended brass into .224 bullets, but the price tag is redonkulously high.

Yup -

No doubt the price to set up a proper swaging setup with presses & dies designed to take the additional pressures needed to form the nose of the round aren't cheap. I'm right at $1000 and I got bargains & sale pricing at that.

But I love it and have come across many the reloading veteran that thinks it's cool.

And after reloading 10k FMJ standard rounds - I just wanted to take my next step in reloading. Some say I read too much and got ideas - hehehe - they're not wrong.

And my Glock seems to like the rounds just fine thus-far.

[mikld]

I checked into this, swaging bullets from semi-auto brass. What info I could find came mostly from google and the costs of dies was a bit more than I can afford. I consider it a "fun pass time" but I could buy a lot of premium 45 bullets for the price of dies, supplies, etc., for so-so bullets...

[Mike / Tx]

The price of the dies is a bit much for making common caliber bullets, but...in the event of mass purchases which lead to shortages for months on end for premium type bullets they do provide an alternative.

The biggest plus for some however is making custom bullets for the bigger or less popular calibers from around 40 and up. Premium bullets for say a 454 or 500 only come usually in a 50 pack or less and run premium prices. It don't take near as long for a serious shooter of big bores to amortize the cost.

I have to say that had I not gotten into casting before BT really fine tuned his dies and such I would be right in the middle of it. Feeding a couple or more big bores get pricey fast. I managed to buy enough equipment to offset my factory bullet cost pretty quickly. Of course that led me down another rabbit hole that probably would have paid for a couple of the swadge kits...

[T. O'Heir]

"...into bullets..." It's into bullet jackets, not bullets.
Corbin's not the only game any more. Still not cheap though. Don't see the value of it myself.
https://www.rceco.com/accessory-dies/

[FrankenMauser]

Swaging or drawing rifle cases will require a swaging press. Reloading presses can't handle it.

CH-4D stopped making swaging dies about seven or eight years ago, and BT_Sniper bought out their remaining supply.
I have seen recent reports that CH-4D is getting back into swage dies, but haven't see anything yet.
They don't make what you're looking for, anyway.

The Corbins - Dave and Richard - are common sources for the tools necessary; but there are many others out there.

Bullets made from drawn cartridge cases are nearly always going to be less consistent than bullets made from drawn jackets, however. Cases are not drawn to the tight tolerances of jackets.

If you want to go redneck, there are ways to cheaply swage 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 Auto cases into bullets.
For example, I swage .44 caliber bullets from .40 S&W cases, using a 7x57mm Mauser sizing die. I also use a 6.5-284 Norma die to swage .475" bullets from .45 Auto and cut off .30-06 family cartridge cases.


This one was recovered from a bull elk, after being fired from a .444 Marlin. (.4315" diameter, 275 gr, pure lead core, not bonded.)




This photo was taken during very early experimentation, before I 'dialed in' my process (note the differing lead exposure); but clearly shows the general profile:



When the cases are annealed, they swell to full diameter. When I don't anneal, the case web and head remain at about .424". ...But they shoot just as well.

"...into bullets..." It's into bullet jackets, not bullets.

Semantics.
In a multi-step process, the cases are swaged or drawn to become jackets, before being swaged into bullets.
But in a one-step process, it goes from case to completed bullet with no intermediate steps.

[50 shooter]

FrankenMauser,
Thanks for the info and pics, good stuff! Any more info that you can post or pics would be great. Definitely like checking out the bullets that guys have made from cases.

Do you think an RCBS Ammomaster is strong enough to make smaller calibers on? I'm guessing that I would need a bigger press to make them for a .50.

Have any links to BT_Snipers dies, pics...

[44 AMP]

If I remember right, swaging .22 cases into bullets was how Joyce Hornady got started after WW II.

There simply were no bullet for reloading commercially available at that time. It took a while for the regular makers to switch back from wartime production to civilian products, which left a gap which Hornady and a few others were able to fill.

Do you think an RCBS Ammomaster is strong enough to make smaller calibers on?

I wouldn't bet any money on ANY press designed and built for reloading metallic cartridges being up to the task of swaging cases into bullets.

One warning - at about 600 rounds, I broke a rockchucker press which isn't designed to handle the pressures involved.

If you can break a Rockchucker, I doubt any "regular" press will hold up, either. Get a press BUILT for swaging, or build one yourself. An off the shelf reloading press won't hold up for that kind of work.

[FrankenMauser]

Vernon Speer and Fred Huntington (RCBS), as well.

Do you think an RCBS Ammomaster is strong enough to make smaller calibers on?

Probably stronger than a Rock Chucker, but still less than ideal.
I swage my bullets with a Rock Chucker (RCIV), but the odds are in favor of it 'popping' one of these days and letting go - the toggle links, in particular.
If you're willing to risk the press, it'll probably get the job done for simple .40 or .44 caliber bullets from 9mm/.40 S&W jackets. Give it much more, and you'll just be stressing the press until it breaks.


BT_Sniper's wares and discussion can be found on the Castboolits forums, in the Swaging sub-forum, as well as the supporting vendor area. He's also on Facebook, but didn't show much and was extremely slow to respond last time I checked there.


My convoluted experimentation can be found here: Something new to play with.
There are 'chapters' missing, but it covers the basics in a roundabout way. Some of my development and experimentation was documented or discussed in other places.
For example, my last run of .44 caliber bullets used lead wire for cores; for which I built a $13(?) core-cutter that was documented in the bullet casting forum. (Which I need to reconfigure, now that I have some better tools available to fabricate a better stop.)

[50 shooter]

I was thinking that you could possibly use a pistol case to make some projos for the .50 if you can find one close enough in diameter.

That or a rifle case that's close in diameter also (.510) and cut it down to the size you wanted. Could use them for cheap plinking bullets if it worked out.

I'll have to read some more of your other thread, good stuff and great pics, info...

I know that CH bought the rights to build the Rock Crusher press (not a typo) and as massive as it is, should be more than strong enough to swage some bullets. It also carries a massive price tag also but considering that you can load up to 20mm rounds on it...

Any other stuff that you have, post it up, seems like guys are interested in it.

[44 AMP]

Admittedly I know nothing about the details of doing it, so

That or a rifle case that's close in diameter also (.510) and cut it down to the size you wanted. Could use them for cheap plinking bullets if it worked out.

How big (diameter?) does a rifle case have to be to make a .510" bullet?

The only ones that start out that big at the base are the belted magnums 7mm Rem, 300winmag, 338Winmag etc. The ultra mags are even bigger, but none of them is something you're going to find laying around for free pickup in any quantity, and buying them, fired isn't cheap, either, so I don't understand how you could make "cheap" .50 cal plinkers from them.

Now, if you could do it with a smaller case, like a 7.62x54R, that would be different. Fired berdan milsurp brass (if it would work) could probably be had for a bit over scrap price, especially in quantity.

Good luck, I don't think you can do .50BMG slugs and "cheap" together, but I'll be fine if you prove me wrong.

[FrankenMauser]

I can't think of anything readily available that would be worthwhile.
Rifle cases are not easy to swage (increase diameter) very far, without pressure levels seen in good swaging presses or hydraulic presses. Even then, you need a fired primer in the pocket to fill the hole, and the jacket becomes even less consistent (unevenly stretching the web, primer pocket, etc. So, you really need to start with a larger case and draw it down to diameter.

And if you're going to have to buy brass to draw down, you might as well just buy bullets.
Buying jackets could be a reasonable alternative, if you still wanted to get into swaging.
Buying bullets or jackets would be a better option than swaging cases, anyway. Consistency, quality, and cost would be better.

Cartridge cases - particularly the common range brass types (9mm, .40 S&W, .45 Auto, .223 Rem, .308 Win, etc.) - may be cheap and easy to obtain; but they really don't make a good bullet jacket from a quality and consistency standpoint.

..."Good enough" for many of us, and how we use them. But not "good" in the broad spectrum.

[44 AMP]

I mentioned swaging .50 bullets (jackets) to a friend, and he suggest going with a mold, and cast slugs (w/gascheck), or buying brass/copper tubing (if not prohibitively expensive) for jacket material. His last idea was the one that intrigued me most, so here it is...

Instead of looking for another rifle case to swage into jackets, why not cut the neck off (used up) .50 BMG brass and use that? I have no idea if it would work for what you want, but it is another idea to pursue, to find out.

[BumbleBug]

I swage .224 from .22RF cases. I bought RCE dies & Seagirt press. Looking at the bullet cost I can see why making .50 cal's could be a very attractive idea. I'll never make enough .224 bullets to pay for my investment but all the same, swaging is another fun hobby extension for the reloader!

[Grey_Lion]

I use a BT-Sniper die to turn 9MM luger brass into .40 JHP - see attachment.

Originally I used a rock chucker to swage on, but it broke - see attachment 2 - then I moved on to a walnut hill press.

[Grey_Lion]

Originally Posted by 50 shooter

Do you think an RCBS Ammomaster is strong enough to make smaller calibers on?

definitely not.

Swaging involves 2 to 4 times the pressures needed for reloading. The most load intensive operation is forming the nose of the round.

I made some 600 JHPs on my rock chucker before it's weakest link shattered. Some may be fine with that. I wasn't. RCBS hasn't made a swaging press for a number of years. I upgraded to a walnut hill swaging press.

If you are a welder there are free plans out there to make a swaging press. Otherwise you'll most likely be shopping Walnut Hill or Corbin.