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Old April 17, 2019, 05:06 AM   #26
JJ45
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Originally Posted by volkstrm View Post
Yea I have 3 Makarov"s love them. I have a Russian,Bulgarian & a East German. I like the East German the best. I do carry them as bug's. I have some really good Russian milsurp ammo 109gr,FMJ that's really hot that I use as my carry load. It's better then any of the new ammo in 9x18 out there.
I was thinking the same thing as the OP but the thought of my 4 PM Maks brought me back to "I already have what I need". Especially since I got them back when they were the best deals in firearms.

One or the other is my usual carry pistol. A little heavier for it's size than what the OP is looking for but that's because it's all steel (except for the grips) This is read Hell for stout. We could go on about the pros and cons of the Makarov but this has already been hashed out thoroughly in these forums!

Depends on your preference, a compact DA/SA with a thumb safety/decocker is my preference in a carry pistol and the Makarov fills the bill. Sure they are redundant in some people's opinions but this makes no difference to me.
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Old April 17, 2019, 03:57 PM   #27
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Here's a 3913, decocker not a safety.



Sig P 239 9mm



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Old April 17, 2019, 10:02 PM   #28
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tipoc, do you have accurate dimensions for the 3913? I'm mostly interested in height, width, and weight.

Those stats on the P239 should be 5.1" tall, 1.2" wide, and 29.5 ounces based on a web search. The 3913 is a little more elusive...
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Old April 17, 2019, 10:24 PM   #29
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The 3913 weighs 25.4 ounces empty.

The Shield weighs 20.8 ounces empty.

The 3913 is 6.860" in length from muzzle to the furthest point of the frame.
5" in height for the 3913 from the bottom of the frame to the top of the Novack rear sights.

The Shield is 6.120" in length and 4.440" in height.

The 3913 slide is .920 in width not counting the decockers.

Width of the Shield is .960" across the frame just below the slide. The slide is about .900" in width.

The Shield on top of the 3913.







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Last edited by tipoc; April 17, 2019 at 10:33 PM.
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Old April 18, 2019, 06:42 AM   #30
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As far as anyone knocking an 8+1 capacity, going single-stack necessarily means lower capacity. Double stacks need more width by definition. Does the P365 use an intermediate method of stacking?
While I really like my P225A1, the magazine supplied has a base plug that looks like it could hold another round...making it a 9+1.

So long as the grip thickness remains as it is, another round or two would make it just that much better...it's the feel of the grip that makes a single stack so admirable to me...I find that I get less latter shot displacement with a thinner grip...similar to a 1911.

As to conceal ability, I don't believe the add'l 1/8" that the usual double stack adds to grip thickness, adversely affects the guns printing...but I do believe and have proved to my satisfaction that the grip length is significant...adding that tell tale bulge when carrying in my accustomed 3-4 o'clock position, OWB.

Sig's P365 has an innovative magazine that retains the usual single stack's thin grip but provides for a tapered double stack and increases capacity to 10+1. It's really ground breaking in my opinion. That mag is my hope for the P225, and that Sig will see fit to offer a newly designed mag a-la P365. The P225A1 is still in production to my knowledge, but I think the P239 is finished. Rod
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Old April 18, 2019, 06:58 AM   #31
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Kahr?
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Old April 18, 2019, 09:06 AM   #32
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Kahr?
Double action only.

But still a great choice in this size category. I own a CM9 that's been running great for years.
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Old April 18, 2019, 10:38 AM   #33
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I think if CZ would come out with a single stack, shorter grip version of the 85 it would be great.... I'll keep wishing.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
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Old April 18, 2019, 04:48 PM   #34
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I'll throw out another not quite what the OP is asking for. Find a used or NOS Sig P290RS. It's DAO but if you can master the first shot of a DA/SA pistol you've mastered the rest of the shots of a full DAO pistol. No decocker of safety required. Nice night sights on most and soft shooting for its' size and weight.
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Old April 18, 2019, 06:06 PM   #35
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Good comparison photos of the Shield vs 3913. The S&W CS9 is a bit smaller than the 3913.
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Old April 19, 2019, 01:05 AM   #36
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Springfield XD-E is only current production DA/SA hammer fired pistol I am aware of that is as thin as a Shield, PPS, etc but it is also taller. IMO there is not near enough market demand for such DA/SA pistols. If the XD-E was a run away best seller like the SIG P365 I am sure other manufacturers would take notice but it is not, not even close.
It's not going to be and it's stupid to blame low sales of the XD-E on the DA/SA action, it's in large part due to the manufacturer's politics, the price, and the feel of the gun.

If Joe Schmoe walks into a gun store looking to buy himself a small 9mm for conceal carry and the LGS slaps an LC9s in his hand and then an XD-E, Mr. Schmoe is gonna buy the LC9s because the price is near half the XDE and the trigger is better.

You don't buy a DA/SA on the feel of the single action trigger, you buy it for the first round DA pull and second strike ability.
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Old April 22, 2019, 11:15 PM   #37
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OAL - 6"

H - 4.6" (you can get a full grip, all three fingers).

W - 1"

W - 16.4 oz.

Bersa Thunder .380 CC.

no need to omit actual grip width, no need to omit mag in height measurement or controls.

there is an absolute necessity to get over yourself that the .380 ACP can't get the job done. this is the tough part.

I've been down this road. without going into details, I know PRECISELY what niche your looking for. it doesn't exist. when the xd-e came out, I instantly knew it was too long and too tall. they should have made it a 3" barrel(slightly shorter) and striker-fired DA like the P99(this would have kept the height way down). BUT, then you run into another interesting dilemma....as the weight and size go down the recoil and snappiness go up, follow-ups become less precise and slower. (with 9mm but not .380)

HST chambered, 8 FMJ in mag....or,...Precision One HP for all 9. (meets FBI standard BECAUSE it doesn't expand as big as the HST) welcome to the new world.

Last edited by priler; April 22, 2019 at 11:21 PM.
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Old April 25, 2019, 06:53 AM   #38
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Alright. I just started putting stats into a spreadsheet. Width is a big part of what prompted this thread. It looks like only the 3913 and the XDe get in around an inch wide. The heavier Sig P239 comes in at 1.2". The next thinnest I found is the double-stack Sphinx SDP subcompact at 1.22". The Sphinx compares favorably with the Rami except in height, though it gains three rounds for that extra third of an inch and matches the XDe at 5".

Weight and height matter, but I'm not entirely sure how much. The P99C is really light at 21.5 ounces and is only 4.3" tall, but is also 1.3" wide. (The regular P99 is relatively compact for a full-size.)

I'll check local shops and keep my fingers crossed for the next gun show. I'd like to get my hands on a 3913 to see how it feels. I'd also like to get the Sphinx SDP subcompact in my hands. I've heard mostly good things about that one too.
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Old April 26, 2019, 06:10 AM   #39
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If all dozen people who want single stack DA/SA guns join forces and write constant letters to all the major manufacturers, maybe we'll see some action

Sadly, as much as I would love to have such a thing, the XDe is the only one I think we'll ever likely see, and it's not even that great a seller for Springfield. If the grip had been made shorter, with a greater variety of magazines (like basically every other single stack including their XDs), I probably would own one. The trigger isn't that hateful and it's solid as a tank. I just keep the single stack for cases in which clothing is lighter and even the 1" wide grip will still print somewhat.
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Old April 26, 2019, 01:27 PM   #40
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If all dozen people who want single stack DA/SA guns join forces and write constant letters to all the major manufacturers...
We can't really be that small a group. New shooters were still coming up on DA/SA within the last twenty years. As far as I know, Sig had been supplying DA/SA guns to law enforcement in recent memory. There also seems to be recent interest in positive trigger feedback with the rise of appendix carry. For instance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP8F_cwotM8
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Old April 26, 2019, 03:12 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Cosmodragoon View Post
Alright. I just started putting stats into a spreadsheet. Width is a big part of what prompted this thread. It looks like only the 3913 and the XDe get in around an inch wide. The heavier Sig P239 comes in at 1.2". The next thinnest I found is the double-stack Sphinx SDP subcompact at 1.22". The Sphinx compares favorably with the Rami except in height, though it gains three rounds for that extra third of an inch and matches the XDe at 5".

Weight and height matter, but I'm not entirely sure how much. The P99C is really light at 21.5 ounces and is only 4.3" tall, but is also 1.3" wide. (The regular P99 is relatively compact for a full-size.)

I'll check local shops and keep my fingers crossed for the next gun show. I'd like to get my hands on a 3913 to see how it feels. I'd also like to get the Sphinx SDP subcompact in my hands. I've heard mostly good things about that one too.
Well good luck. I handled a 3913 and it is as wide as a Glock 19. Be careful when looking at specs as a lot of places list "slide width" which is not the same as "overall width" which includes controls. I believe you might have a pretty hard time finding parts for a 3913 also. I have been CCW my Walther PPS quite a bit again with the warmer weather and the thinness of it sure makes for comfortable all day CCW. Though not as thin I must say my HK P30SK is fairly comfortable to CCW also.
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Old April 26, 2019, 06:43 PM   #42
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like I said, it doesn't exist.(if you want to stick to 9mm and TDA, unless the height and length of the XD-E is satisfactory, which it isn't for the type of niche I wanted to fill).

you have to give up one or the other(9mm or TDA) or make a compromise with something that was not designed from the outset with thinness throughout.(PPS).

your choices are.

a) choose something that is based on existing (duty or "normal") guns but made smaller in height and length, like the Rami and others. the P239 is basically it's own gun but I feel it qualifies in this category. if you look from on top of the slide on a Rami next to something like the PPS, the Rami is humongous. PX4 etc., etc.. (some have options for thinner controls but they still are what they are).

b) find something that was designed for being small and thin from the outset but before the "new" definition of thin. the S&W CS and 3913(there're several models or similar) sit here and are in fact a great option but make sure that it fits your definition of thin and light because a PPS they're not.

(there was a craze not too long ago with people buying up used S&W models and some of the parts on these are drying up) (I've had enough of out of production guns and don't want more but maybe your different).

c) give up on 9mm or TDA and the sun begins to shine through. (I will not give up on TDA and new technology has at least help me with the 9mm-as-a-minimum issue). (new research is in order for anyone looking at .380 ACP).


Taurus has/had some models that fit somewhere in these categories but mostly they seem not to be TDA but instead SA with second strike capabilities.

good luck whatever you do.
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Old May 4, 2019, 07:35 PM   #43
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I believe there is a Sig that meets your requirements. I am too lazy to research the model.
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Old May 4, 2019, 08:28 PM   #44
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I found mine in the Sig P230. It fits all the thiness, size requirements, and DA/SA.
Shoots like a dream. .380 but 8+1
Good luck on your find, but you will have to compromise.
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Old May 5, 2019, 07:59 AM   #45
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the Sig P225A1 is easy to find and in production
the Sig P239 SAS is the best carry model of the 239s and although out of production it was built for years and all models are easy to find.
Bersa and Taurus are both building single stack 9mm polymere pistols right now that I have handled but not shot I would lean towards the Bersa but Taurus has came a long way under new management in the last few years
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Old May 5, 2019, 10:12 AM   #46
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How big are you Cosmo? I know you want a small gun for concealment purposes but the size of the person does give you some leeway. I carry an XDS, but I'm 5'8" and about 150. So, for me size does matter a bit. For all intents and purposes, I should be carrying a tiny .380. Now a buddy of mine, 6'2 and 240 pounds, can basically carry a 1911 and conceal it on his large frame. Just some thoughts.
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Old May 5, 2019, 11:23 AM   #47
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What about a Sig P938 micro compact?

Barrel - 3"
Total length - 5.1"
Width - 1.1
Weight - 16 oz.
Capacity - 6/7 rounds
Cal. 9mm
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Old May 5, 2019, 11:59 AM   #48
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What about a Sig P938 micro compact?
Isn't that just an SA only? OP is looking for DA/SA
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Old May 5, 2019, 10:18 PM   #49
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How big are you Cosmo? I know you want a small gun for concealment purposes but the size of the person does give you some leeway. I carry an XDS, but I'm 5'8" and about 150. So, for me size does matter a bit...
I'm a big guy but I'm not looking for a primary EDC. I'm looking to round out my EDC rotation. I live in a place with variable weather and big seasonal swings. Between that and different kinds of activities, what I wear changes a lot. I like to have a few different choices for guns, knives, and other EDC gear to match the day.

Quote:
... the Sig P239 SAS is the best carry model of the 239s and although out of production...
I passed on a good deal for a P239 SAS Gen II a while back and have regretted it ever since. It was right before we found out it was going out of production.
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