suggestions for shooting offhand?

[idek]

I'd like to improve my offhand shooting. My formal shooting instruction is limited to a single project appleseed event, where they address general trigger control, sight alignment/sight picture, natural point of aim, and breathing.

My main question is about finding the best way to be on target when the trigger breaks when shooting offhand.

I often see people say to not try to keep the barrel stationary, because it just won't happen from an offhand position. Instead, they say let the barrel move and break the trigger at the right moment. I've seen people suggest doing figure-8's with the sights and breaking the trigger at the middle of the 8. Other methods include moving the sights in a straight line toward the target and breaking the trigger just as you approach the target.

I'd like to hear what some of you do when shooting offhand and what works for you.

To clarify, I'm talking about hitting stationary targets and shooting from a conventional stance (like I'd use hunting). I mostly shoot 22lr. I don't do any type of competitive shooting. I just want to get better for the sake of getting better.

[ms6852]

Stick with shooting 22lr off hand for a while this is an excellent way to practice without breaking the bank. Start at 3 yards and shoot one round. Remember your sight picture as you shoot and see where the bullet hit the target. More than not it is not where you aimed because the height of sight is higher than the barrel. Do a second shot remembering your sight picture from the first shot, your second bullet shoot hit where the first one did if you duplicated everything as the first shot. Doing this multiple times will give you consistency and if you want your bullet impact to hit higher or lower you know now where to aim to get your desired hits. Than try doing the same at 5 yards 7, 10 all the way to 25 yards.

Now remember as you move back shoot one shot only and see where your bullet impacted on the target in relation to your point of aim. Remembering your sight picture alignment will always be crucial as this will always allow you to remember where the bullet will impact in relation to your aiming.

Since you are shooting 22lr try to always shoot same brand of ammo and lot if possible and typically not bulk ammo as this ammo is not always best quality as some will shoot low and other high because of how they are loaded. At a minimum try using CCI or aguila brands as I have found this ammo to be pretty consistent for their price point.

[P-990]

Offhand was my favorite stage when I was shooting competitively. Partially because everyone else is mentally sighing because they just want it over, and partially because it was the most comfortable shooting position.

First off, you have to accept your wobble area. The sights are going to drift, that's natural. So long as they drift predictably, you're in good shape. If they don't move predictably, break position, breath, calm down and rebuild your position.

Everybody has a slightly different approach to the trigger break when shooting offhand. I never have been able to figure out a figure-8 or approach style of hold. I always tried to use a natural pause in my wobble and setup so the sights were on target during that pause. (Maybe this is how an approach hold works, unsure.)

Trigger control is critical. DO NOT SNATCH THE TRIGGER! I guarantee if you do, you'll throw your shots low. For me, shots go almost exactly to 6 o'clock when I grab the trigger in a hurry. You have to focus on pressing the trigger until the break.

With a scoped .22 rifle, my 2 favorite offhand targets are bottle caps at 40-50 feet and spent 12ga shotgun shells at 25 yards. They're small enough to be a challenge but large enough to hit consistently when you get the hang of it. And they're reactive, which gives nice, quick feedback when you're doing it right.

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[Mobuck]

Yhe barrel will never completely stop moving. Work on decreasing the amount of wobble while applying pressure on the trigger. As you learn to control the amount of wobble, the offhand group size will decrease.
I'm an inveterate "snatch"(meaning you grab the shot as the sights go by) shooter and with a really good trigger, I'm pretty good(or I was before I got old) but I learned to shoot "properly" on an ARMY competition rifle team.

[NoSecondBest]

Back when I was starting to shoot three guns at Sportsman's Team Challenge Matches I had to start shooting the rifle off hand. I thought it would be a piece of cake since everyone knows it's harder to shoot a handgun off hand than it is a rifle....WRONG! I was already an International Class handgun shooter and I got a real eye opener. Here's a couple of things I learned: First, you can hold the crosshairs steady on the target if you really dedicate yourself to it. Second, it's the hardest shooting discipline to master. After a year of dedicated working out with the gun and dry firing it everyday, I could hold the 1/8th minute dot on a 3/4" diamond shaped target steady enough to hit it at 90 yards pretty consistently. I was shooting a falling plate set of targets, some of which were ridiculously small at distances of ninety and seventy-five yards. It was a timed event with a lot of targets. I never would have believed that you could develop the muscle and skills to do this, but you can. My suggestion to you is to get a .22lr rifle and spend a lot of time shooting targets and dry firing inside. Build up the muscles needed to hold the gun steady on target long enough to make a good trigger squeeze. The guys that did the "wobble" and "figure eights" never won the matches. The guys who shot the perfect scores were the ones who could stand there and hold the dot/reticle on the target while making a good trigger break. Either way, good or expert, there is no short cut. You have to build up those muscles and not be fighting the gun. Good luck.

[idek]

Thanks for the thoughtful feedback. I will do a little shooting this week and try to implement the suggestions...

a few follow up questions...

1) I have multiple .22 rifles. For practice/training purposes, would a heavier or light gun be better? (or does it matter?) I'm thinking a heavier gun would probably be more steady initially but also more fatiguing over time. Suggestions?

2) A couple of my .22s have aperture sights. The others have low-power scopes. Is one type of sight better to practice with? I feel like a scope would give me a little better idea of my barrel movement when aiming and squeezing the trigger.

3) Finally, at the project appleseed event, they had us shoot offhand with a hasty sling technique. But I've heard other people say a sling doesn't really help offhand shooting, since the strong arm/elbow isn't supported the way it is in other positions. Thoughts on the use of a sling for offhand shooting?

[emcon5]

Dry fire practice.

Put a target spot on the wall, and pay attention to where the sights are pointing when the sear breaks.

[Mobuck]

A rifle with more weight "out front" will be a bit more steady than a whippy fishing rod of a rifle.
I prefer low power scopes (2.5 to 4x) as it's easier for my old eyes. At 10 meters to 50', the aperture sights are OK for me.
A "hasty" sling may help a little but not in the way that being strapped into a "real" sling with a shooting jacket and glove.

[NoSecondBest]

Get a stock that fits you. Most really good rifle shots have the weight of the gun back further. If you're "reaching" to get hold of the forearm, you're not going to hold the weight as well. The closer your elbow is to you, the easier it is to hold the gun out there. I had a few stocks that cost 4-500 bucks back then and it was painful to cut them down, but my shooting got significantly better after I got stocks that allowed the gun to fit me. Watch some of the top shooters shooting off hand. They have their elbow resting along their side. I'm just not built for that, but if you can do it, it really helps.

[RaySendero]

idek asked:

a few follow up questions...

1) I have multiple .22 rifles. For practice/training purposes, would a heavier or light gun be better? (or does it matter?) I'm thinking a heavier gun would probably be more steady initially but also more fatiguing over time. Suggestions?

2) A couple of my .22s have aperture sights. The others have low-power scopes. Is one type of sight better to practice with? I feel like a scope would give me a little better idea of my barrel movement when aiming and squeezing the trigger.

3) Finally, at the project appleseed event, they had us shoot offhand with a hasty sling technique. But I've heard other people say a sling doesn't really help offhand shooting, since the strong arm/elbow isn't supported the way it is in other positions. Thoughts on the use of a sling for offhand shooting?

1) To me heavier is better.
2) I do better with a scope.
3) Open up the sling some and
Go with the old GI wrap around the tricep/bicep.

PS: Get a rifle with a good trigger, so you'll know when its going off - Then pratice

[30Cal]

Sling definitely helps offhand. Not legal for most of the old-school competition formats though.

Dryfire. However, the most important part of dryfiring is to be extremely picky. NEVER EVER accept a bad shot. If you want to be mediocre, then practice being mediocre. If you want to shoot well, practice being excellent.

[RAfiringline]

I offhand (no sling) shoot my AR at a 6 inch circle target at about 120 ft a couple times a month, 40 or 50 rds per visit.

I admit I rarely get over 70 pct hits within the 6" circle. It's difficult - you dryfire to minimize the movement by figuring out your best body stance, forehand position, into the shoulder pull pressure from each hand, and snap shoot - a good trigger helps.

[Jack Ryan]

Take an Apple Seed class or an NRA Rifle class.

[hagar]

Do upper arm exercises, both arms. I like to do it with a heavy rifle, start with 15 push ups each arms, swap and do it again, and work up to more every day. try and do it at least 3-4 times a week.

And dry fire, lots of it.

Since my eyes went to heck, my high power shooting went downhill, shooting a scope did not help much. But I shoot offhand with the masters and high masters.

[precision_shooter]

For me...

I don't stand facing the target. I stand facing semi-sideways to the target so the shoulder the butt of the rifle is tucked into is furthest away from the target with my feet slightly wider than shoulder width and my front foot (Closest to the target) pointing straight in the direction of the target and back foot turned like i'm bracing for an impact.

I tuck my support hand elbow into my side so that the weight of the rifle is supported by by entire body and not just my arm.

Then I would say that I let the "sway" happen naturally (no matter how hard you try you will never hold still when standing) and then I apply pressure to the trigger knowing when it will break. I find a rhythm and time the break of the trigger with when the rhythm of the movement passes the crosshairs over the target.

[Picher]

"Precision Shooter" was right-on! Over many years, I've enjoyed shooting offhand without a sling. I don't often use a sling with my sporters, but rather practice offhand shooting with a .22LR. On good days I've been able to shoot 8 out of ten mailing stickers on a piece of stiff paper at 50 feet. My favorite offhand-shooting rifles are: Remington 504, Remington custom 581, and a heavy-barreled 10-22. I like shooting with scopes, set on lower power, usually around 4X.

[pete2]

1st, find natural stance, when you mount the rifle is it pointed right or left or at the target? move your feet til you are pointed at the target. You will have a natural wobble, practice will reduce the size of the wobble area. Try to break the shot while the front sight is moving on to the target, ON TO THE TARGET. if you break the shot while the sight is moving off the target the shot will land off the target. PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE. I would practice with the rifle you are going to shoot in the match, this will eliminate 1 variable. If shooting with a scope I shoot better at the highest setting allowed. PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE.

[Erno86]

You'll have to deal with anticipation of the shot.

For that...you might have to go into a zen moment --- By saying wait...wait...wait --- silently in you're mind, as you press the trigger straight back.

The wobble radius will get smaller as you practice more.

I like to use iron peep sights and low power scopes for offhand/standing shooting.

Try to have bone to bone contact in you're stance instead of muscle to muscle contact.

Source: "Dealing with anticipation of the shot" Paul Schoch - Shooting Illustrated.

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/...when-shooting/

[Pathfinder45]

First of all, I would commend you for wanting to learn to shoot well off-hand. It's almost a lost art these days as no one wants others to see them miss and expose how lousy of a shot they really are. Sometimes we really ought to tell ourselves to stand up on our hind legs and shoot like a man. Probably the best thing you can do if you want to be a good shot, off-hand or otherwise is to shun the bench. If you have your own portable bench-rest, throw it on the burn-pile and put a match to it. Then, when the fire gets really hot, throw every bipod you own into the hottest part of the fire. Then you can get back to the basic principles of marksmanship from regular field positions, especially off-hand. The other thing I've found most helpful is to embrace the shame that you might miss while others are watching. When others ridicule and jeer you for missing, cheerfully join in and then invite them to show you how it's done. Then they can eat their own medicine.
I love shooting off-hand; it's my favorite position. Once you become proficient at it, all other positions seem easy.

[Rob228]

The only way to get better is to do it, a lot. See if any of your local ranges have a sporterrifle (rifle/scope combo under 7.5 pounds, indoor at 50', unsupported offhand-elbow cannot touch the body-) or silhouette league (outdoor, ranges 25-100 yards).

I shot two years of sporterrifle in my teens and the skill has stuck with me 20 years later.

[NoSecondBest]

Pathfinder got a lot of it right. There's "how good your gun can shoot", and "how good you can shoot". The most accurate rifle in the world in the hands of a poor off-hand shot probably isn't going to do much good when the time comes to shoot at a deer off hand. One thing not talked about in this post is the effect adrenaline has when shooting. When I shot major competitions I'd see some of the really good shooters fall apart when they had to do a shoot off with a crowd watching. Even a very minor dump will send your fine motor skills racing for the hills. When hunting, it's called buck fever. The thing about it is this.....it's not something most people can control. It's your autonomic nervous system taking over in time of need. Your genetics control most of it and it's very difficult to get past it. It gets better with exposure and time. Get your buddies together sometime and see who can shoot well off the bench and then see who can stand there with everyone watching and still do well. It's an eye opener. Nothing like trigger time to make you a better shot off-hand. Good luck.

[Picher]

As you hold your rifle in an aiming position for a few seconds, see how well you can hold the vertical steady. If you can master an offhand position that will allow you to maintain a better vertical, keep your eye on the target center as the sights approach the target center and slowly squeeze, until it passes the center and hold that pressure on the trigger until the sights are almost to the center, when you can continue to increase pressure. Just resist the tendency to "grab" a shot, but if you start getting shaky from the length of time, just back off the trigger and lower the rifle, because you won't hit where you want to anymore. Take a few breaths, relax your muscles, then try again. As you get better, the times you have to back off will decrease and you'll get to be a better shot. It won't often happen the first time you shoot, but even the shakiest person will get better with practice. You can practice with an unloaded rifle at home, but be sure to block the chamber, so you can't accidentally chamber a live round. (Safety First!)

[black mamba]

The straight line movement is my method. Starting below the target I slowly raise the sights through the target and press trigger as the sights pass through.

a) Really, REALLY learn your trigger through dry firing; take up length and pressure, release and follow through. The often taught business of squeeze until it fires and it should surprise you is bogus. You need to KNOW when it's going off, and you shouldn't have to rush to do that.

b) Practice, practice, PRACTICE!!

[Don Fischer]

I don't shoot competitively, I pretty much only hunt and plink. Shooting offhand is easy, don't do it if you can avoid it! If yu do do it, keep the range about 50yds or less and if you can support yourself on a tree or fence post, do it! As a shooting platform, the body in the off hand position is as bad as it get's. For hunting I like the sitting position, lot better shooting platform. I used to be able to drop right into a good sitting position while shouldering the rifle. I also used to be 30 yrs old! Next is kneeling, better than off hand, lot more steady but I'd still confine my shot's to about 100 +/- yds. Best is prone but grass, brush and rocks play h*ll with it. If your shooting a lot of offhand, or a lot period, learn to properly use a military sling. more than worth the effort in any position!

[T. O'Heir]

Upper body toning exercise(you're trying to hold 7 plus pounds up and relatively still.) and learning how to use a sling. Helps to have a really good trigger you have practiced using. Dry firing is your friend.
Off hand shooting is mostly about quick shots. The sights used matter. High magnification optics have low, sometimes really low, FOV. Limits how fast a shot can be due to having to find the target.