180 Nosler BT 300 win mag

[kilotanker22]

So I really wanted the Sierra SBT to work out in my 300 win mag, but the bullet tips are being literally destroyed under recoil. Not totally, but they are way way out of shape and I can't see anyway that they would fly straight with random smashed shaped tips. Maybe why I can't get them to shoot.

How do you guys like the 180 grain Ballistic tip? General purpose for this rifle. I bought these bullets for 3 reasons.

1: To avoid total tip deformation in the magazine. (It's pretty severe)

2: They have a much longer bearing surface than the 180 grain Sierra SBT. So I can get closer than .130 off the lands and still have adequate bearing surface for the case neck to grip the bullet. (Maybe another reason I could not get the SBT to shoot?)

3: Nosler seems to think that these bullets will hold up at a variety of velocities. Up to 3200 fps. So I should be good to go wherever my most accurate load lands me in the velocity department.

I am not worried about velocity too much. I have several good powders for this rifle. I know with RL 26 I can push them around 3200 fps, and with H-4831 I can sit comfortably in the 2900-2950 range.

So What's everyone's experience these bullets? And at what velocities On different sized game animals.

[T. O'Heir]

"...bullet tips are being literally destroyed..." The only part of the bullet that matters is the base. The point has nothing to do with anything, especially accuracy. However, if they get damaged in the mag, it means your OAL is probably too long.
"...the 2900-2950 range..." Close to Max loads for H4831 with a 180. If your rifle doesn't shoot the 180's well it means the rifle doesn't like the load.
3200 fps using RL-26 is an over Max load for a 180.

[kilotanker22]

Originally Posted by T. O'Heir

"...bullet tips are being literally destroyed..." The only part of the bullet that matters is the base. The point has nothing to do with anything, especially accuracy. However, if they get damaged in the mag, it means your OAL is probably too long.
"...the 2900-2950 range..." Close to Max loads for H4831 with a 180. If your rifle doesn't shoot the 180's well it means the rifle doesn't like the load.
3200 fps using RL-26 is an over Max load for a 180.

The 3200 fps load with rl 26 is a full grain below published max. Also I am neck sizing and loading long although I still have plenty of room in the mag. Obviously not plenty, but I don't think that seating depth is the reason they are getting messed up. Also has a pretty long throat. I have no pressure signs aside from the velocity. Primers are still round, no ejector mark etc.

With every powder and bullet combo I have tried I have been 100-200 fps over published data. I also have 2" more barrel length than the published data. I have found that actual data usually trumps book data collected with different components and rifle. It's not unusual for a barrel that is a little fast and 2" longer than the setup used to collect published data to best the published velocity.

The magazine doesn't hold them very tightly the slide easily forward and back in the magazine. Also I find it hard to believe that the tip being wildly and randomly distorted would not affect bullet flight.

The groups with the Sierra are in the 2" range for 5 shots. So its not like a pattern. Except for the H-1000 loads I tried. They were more like 3"

With the 200 grain ELDX I can get 5 shots inside 1 inch. And they recoil a lot more than the 180 sierra. So I know the rifle is capable. And I doubt that my inability to group the 180 sierra is recoil sensitivity.

I went through my list of potential causes and could not narrow it down. Quite possibly the rifle just does not like the 180 Sierra SBT.

[HiBC]

I'd expect very good accuracy from the Nosler Ballistic Tip.

I canot say I have had direct experience shooting a game animal with a 180 gr 30 cal Ballistic tip at 3000+ fps. I can claim some experience with a 7mmRem mag 160 gr Sierra Boat Tail. I lost a lot of meat and it was horrific. I down scaled to a 257 AI.
I can tell you as a general trend ,like the lead pointed Sierra Boat tails,they tend to be a fairly "Loose" bullet. By that I mean they will perform well at 308 velocities.
If you twist them up over 3000 fps and smack an elk with one....I can speculate you will get dramatic expansion. In the boiler room,probably a very quick kill.Maybe a bit messy/destructive.In some cases,the excessive expansion may compromise penetration.

Now I will tell you the good news. Nosler makes an essentially identical bullet in the Accubond line. Slightly tougher jacket,and bonded core/jacket.

That gives you an excellent option to match up to the demands of a 3000 +fps magnum. Its a good option to have.


Recognising my own limitations,not necessarily yours,a factor with 3200 fps 180 gr loads can be keeping my eyes fully open as the trigger breaks.

[kilotanker22]

I almost bought the Accubond, because I used them years ago. Although I went with the BT, because the accubonds are $44 a box of 50 locally. I buy 90% of what I need locally instead of online.

[HiBC]

I know a 165 gr Ballistic tip fired from a 308 kills elk just fine if you place the shot.

I'm using a little humor here,but yo might get the extra cost of the Accubond back in a few more pounds of edible meat.


The difference is shades of grey.

[Dufus]

I avoid Sierra bullets like typhoid from mostly personal experiences for shooting game animals.

I used the Speer Hot Cor for a lot of years then they got hard to find.

I switched to the Nosler Accubonds and some Partitions for game.

I do not compromise my choice of bullets for hunting. Target shooting, yeah.

The Accubonds and Partitions have proven themselves time and time again both for me and many others. They are very accurate in my rifles and their performance on game animals have been with out one failure or even with having to track shot animals. All animals shot died if not on the spot, or within a few yards (meaning less than 20 yds). Those are my experiences.

I might add that I will not take the shot if it is in risk of not making a clean kill.

[jmr40]

O'Heir is right about 1/2 the time, just ignore his advice.

The Ballistic Tips were originally designed for rapid expansion and not suggested for bigger game like elk. But people used them anyway then complained to Nosler about bullet failure on bigger game animals. Nosler responded by making certain Ballistic Tip bullets tougher. The newer 165 and 180 gr .308 Ballistic Tips perform on game almost exactly the same as the more expensive Accubonds in the same weight. And most people find the BT's more accurate.

That is not true of every bullet in the BT lineup. The 150's in 30 caliber are still pretty explosive. The heavier BT's in 270, 7mm, and 30 caliber are a tougher bullet now.

But at the same time I'm not too worried about the added cost of a premium hunting bullet. In the big picture it isn't that expensive to pay 30 cents more for a bullet. The cost difference between 200 Hornady SST bullets and 200 Barnes TTSX bullets is about $60. Two hundred "hunting" bullets will last me for several years of load development, zeroing, practice, and hunting. I can still use the cheaper SST's for practice and have virtually identical trajectories.

That $60 spread over several years isn't much. I paid almost $700 for an elk tag last year and had to drive 3700 miles round trip to hunt. The $60 savings would buy enough gas to get me about 400 miles down the road.

But if a 60 cent bullet will make the difference over a 30 cent bullet it was well worth it.

[std7mag]

As jmr40 says, ignore T.O.Heir.
Gonna break the tip of an arrow, so that it's pointed 45 degrees off, but as long as the nock is ok, it'll fly straight.
And if a frog had wings, it wouldn't bump his @$$ either!

Years ago, when i had my 06', i used a lot of 165gr Ballistic Tips. Never had to track a deer. Was always DRT.
The elk guys use them quite a bit too.

Found out the SST is cheaper for practice. COAL tends to be the same between them & BTs. As in the bullet form is the same. BC tend to be real close also, so trajectories are there.
Difference is i cut my group sizes almost in half with the BT. (0.82"vs 1.45")

[Saltydog235]

I loaded some with the 180grn BT and they did OK. I then developed a load using the ELD-X 200grn over 72.5grn of RL22 set off by a WLRM primer set .02 off the lands in my Sako 85 Finnlight. Everything else I was loading was right around 1". I checked the target the first time and thought it was a fluke, loaded another 10 and went back to the range. Yeah I found the load the gun likes, might as well be one .308 sized hole.

Every animal I have shot with the load has died in it's tracks and usually with spectacular results. And to be honest, I've never been a big Hornady guy, always stuck with Nosler. In fact almost every other rifle I shoot/hunt with uses either a BT or Accubond.

[old roper]

This is from Nosler site on ammo they load using BT.

https://www.nosler.com/ballistic-tip-ammunition

https://www.nosler.com/ballistic-tip-bullet/

I hunt with Nosler bullets but never with BT.

The BT replaced Nosler Boat Tail Solid base bullets used hunting/varmint. I had problem with BT varmint bullet and ones using hunting had same problems. I called Nosler about problem I had and they want me to send bullets back and they replaced them. When Nolser changed over to BT the only other bullet they made for hunting was Partition. Varmint bullets Solid Base where either Spitzer or HP.

One of the reason they came out with AB, Max velocity is unlimited. I didn't post above to get into debate over using BT.

[HiBC]

I tried some of the solid base ones ,and it seemed they jumped pressures up some for me,but that was, what? 35 years ago?I don't think they offer that particular bullet any more.

Experiences with components 30 or 40 years ago do still enter my mind,but I try to allow some of these outfits make corrections.

What was true even 5 or 10 years ago might not be today.

[old roper]

I think what I posted from Nosler site is current and that what this is about. I don't think you have any right telling me what I can and can't post.

[kilotanker22]

Originally Posted by old roper

I think what I posted from Nosler site is current and that what this is about. I don't think you have any right telling me what I can and can't post.

Did I miss something?

[handlerer2]

I own and reload for 300,and 340WBY. Any lead tipped bullets have deformed in the magazine.

I have never hunted with this ammo. I bought them to get brass for reloading. Also as a reference for my reloads. I never noticed any gross deviations from the first first round fired in the mag to the last round. I wasn't shooting for groups, but was using printed targets and none of the shots with the lead tips flew away, or failed to find paper.

At a reasonable range, say under 300yds, I don't think that this would be a significant factor. Also, the second or third rounds in the mag would never be used unless a follow up was needed. Would the BC be degraded any further than say a round nosed bullet? Traditionally hunters in the past seemed to hit targets with round nosed or even flat tipped bullets. How crude.

I have only hunted with Barnes 180gr ttx. They do not deform and are very effective in a 300mag.

[Dufus]

Did I miss something?

I know I did!!

[Saltydog235]

NBT are fine bullets for deer, pigs or any light to medium skinned game, I’ve killed a dump truck load of animals with them and only failed to recover one. You put it in the vitals and it’ll do the work. 90grn in a .243 to 180grn in a .300wby and everything in between.

[HiBC]

[QUOTEDid I miss something? ][/QUOTE]


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[Roadkill2228]

I know this is old thread now, but just saw it and wanted to contribute. I took my whitetail last year with 180 ballistic tips in my 300 win mag. They are a delight to load and shoot, as I find them extremely insensitive to seating depth. My load was with imr 7977. I was a mild pressure load, about the performance of a very hot 30-06. It was lazy loading almost. I had planned to play with different powders and depths and charge weights. First batch of rounds I put together just shot lights out awesome, so I decided not to try fixing what was not broken. Either very lucky or indicative of a forgiving bullet (and im certain it’s the latter).

Terminal performance wise they are indeed destructive BUT a lot of people don’t realize that the 180 30 cal and heavier in the b tip line have heavier jackets than the lighter or narrower bullets. From what I saw, the nosler solid base idea is sound, internally the cup and core are like a flat base, and even though this bullet did expand extremely violently, there was a big exit (like 3 ribs). Shot was around 250-300 yards. Deer did a drunken stagger for about 30 yards and piled up. Very pleased. I wouldn’t worry about inadequate penetration with broadside shots, but meat damage could be severe if a shoulder is hit.

Don’t subscribe wholeheartedly to any terminal ballistic philosophy, including the line of thought that equates low weight retention with failure. Some say if there’s no exit it failed, some say if it does exit you wasted energy, some swear by fragmentation, others swear AT fragmentation... for me it’s simple, you need enough penetration and with as much broad wounding as possible along the way. If you shoot it and it dies quickly there’s no fail. I roll my eyes a lot hearing about people griping about bullet failure if the bullet came apart or didn’t exit, despite knowing how the bullet failed because the could study the carcass of the animal that it killed very very quickly. I shot the deer broadside, it died in less than 30 seconds.

[Mobuck]

Try a stiffer magazine spring. I used to see this in older sporterized Mauser/Springfield rifles rebarrelled for magnum cartridges. The tired magazine springs in combination with sometimes sloppily modified feed surfaces allowed the cartridges to readily slam forward and back.