trimmer problems - Page 2

ballardw · May 7, 2021, 02:19 AM

Wondering now if these pilots have some sort of casehardening or similar surface hardness that sand and polish removed, whether partially or totally.

**Unclenick** · May 7, 2021, 04:04 PM

Yes, it would.

Shadow9mm,

Dry lubes like graphite and motor mica should work the same as they are used for expanders in resizing dies, and they don't have to be removed. Indeed, some think they are desirable to help stop sharp toolmarks in the brass from scraping the bullet jacket. In this article, the interviewee mentions putting Froggy's lube (graphite and alcohol mix I am told by someone who got some when it was still a product). You could do it before trimming and see what happens. Better to get the problem sorted by fit and finish, of course, but it is still something you can try without harm.

Shadow9mm · May 7, 2021, 05:51 PM

I had considered a dry neck lube. I may try graphite on the pilot. I am just having a hard time as I have a couple hundred more 308s and about 5k 223s to trim. I had a WFT but it was not giving me consistent OALs and i decided to go for a more consistent trimmer.

I ordered new factory and hornady pilots. going to try that first.

In regards to the case hardening. The coating on the pilots was not scoring as badly. however brass was still building up and getting embedded in the pilot. I tried a opper remover to get the brass off, and ended up using a light bore polish to get the rest off. after removing the brass it was down to bare metal, which is why i went ahead and polished the entire thing since the finish has already come off after about 400 cases trimmed.

Metal god · May 7, 2021, 07:18 PM

I may have missed it what cartridge are you trimming ? Are these those once fired LC/NATO brass or does this problem happen regardless of case type ?

Shadow9mm · May 7, 2021, 08:59 PM

Regardless of headstamp. My main issue has been 308. 223 has been a problem too, but not nearly as bad.

Shadow9mm · May 8, 2021, 06:21 PM

Ok, got the new pilots in today. Not sure if I got the cart before the horse so I decided to measure the brass and pilot before I started testing.
I measured the brass. it is coming in right around 0.305 so about 0.003 smaller than bullet diameter.

Original Redding pilot that has been polished is measuring a 0.302
the new Redding pilot is measuring 0.304
The Hornady Pilot is measuring at 0.304

With that said the Hornady pilot is shorter. less surface area contact in the neck to bind up. Got a few more days of work. Then its time to do some testing.

**Unclenick** · May 9, 2021, 01:36 PM

It will be interesting to learn if the loose pilot fit lets shavings get in between the pilot and the neck, exacerbating the problem.

Metal god · May 9, 2021, 02:21 PM

I still think it's more the amount being trimmed off then the trimmer or pilots them selves . When I trim my LC once fired cases using a small base die . I've had to trim as much as .018+ off at times . That inside edge/cuttings that stays hanging onto the case mouth that we need to de-bur/chamfer always got hung up on the pilot and would roll up in between the neck and pilot . So much so at times the only way to remove the pilot was to remove the case from the trimmer with pilot still stuck in the neck . Then use pliers on both the case and pilot to pull them apart often ruining the case .

My honest advice is switch to a different trimmer before you've spent enough trying to fix your trimmer you could buy another and the problem still not be fixed .

Shadow9mm · May 9, 2021, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal god

I still think it's more the amount being trimmed off then the trimmer or pilots them selves . When I trim my LC once fired cases using a small base die . I've had to trim as much as .018+ off at times . That inside edge/cuttings that stays hanging onto the case mouth that we need to de-bur/chamfer always got hung up on the pilot and would roll up in between the neck and pilot . So much so at times the only way to remove the pilot was to remove the case from the trimmer with pilot still stuck in the neck . Then use pliers on both the case and pilot to pull them apart often ruining the case .

My honest advice is switch to a different trimmer before you've spent enough trying to fix your trimmer you could buy another and the problem still not be fixed .

So far I only spent about $20 to get some different pilots. But that is about as far at I am willing to go. Redding is sending me a new cutter head. I suspect that is part of the problem too. I am only getting good shavings off of 1 of the 4 tines. If the new pilots and the new head don't fix the problem it will be looking for a new option.

RC20 · May 10, 2021, 03:44 PM

Parable of the Two Priests (Buddhist I believe)

Quote:

An old priest and a young one were walking the road. Their order did not allow them to deal with women in any way.

They came upon a carriage wreck where a young woman had been thrown into the mud and was struggling with the impact of her being thrown and clothing saturated.

The Young Priest went around.

The Old Priest got her sitting, made sure she was ok, got her upright and carried her out of the mud hole to a good resting spot under a tree, then waited for another carriage to came along to give her a lift to the next town.

As the two priest proceeded on their journey, the young one berated the old priest about having violated the edicts the order.

Finally the Old Priest looked at the young one and said "are you still carrying that woman?"

Shoulder Trimmer

Shadow9mm · May 10, 2021, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RC20

Parable of the Two Priests (Buddhist I believe)

Shoulder Trimmer

I tried the shoulder trimmer method. I had trouble setting it up, and inconsistent results. Thus I decided to try the Redding. The results are much more precise, however it is having functional dificulties.

Got my new trimmer head in! Gonne do some testing after dinner.

hounddawg · May 10, 2021, 05:59 PM

I don't use a trimmer that uses a pilot for trimming but my neck turner does use a pilot and it fits very tightly. Tight enough where I use a dab of Imperial on it. No shavings end up inside the neck. If you use a bushing die for sizing try a smaller bushing and see if that helps

gwpercle · May 11, 2021, 12:49 PM

Disreguard what the instructions say ... trim fired cases ... before ... you size them .

I know ... every expert say's to trim them after sizing and that advice sounds good
But ... try trimming a few before sizing and see how it works for you ...
I had the same problem your having 50 years ago with my rotary trimmer ...
Trimming them before sizing works better than an Old Voo-Doo Womans Black Magic Spell!
Try it ....you'll see
Gary

**Unclenick** · May 11, 2021, 05:25 PM

The Wilson trimmer actually has different case holders for resized and as-fired cases, so people do both. The reason you normally resize first is that cases usually don't all grow much until you resize them, and then they don't all grow the exact same amount when you do, so your cases come out long and a little uneven. However, the chamber specs normally allow enough wiggle room that this doesn't present a danger as long as you trim at some point during each loading cycle.

Shadow9mm · May 11, 2021, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unclenick

The Wilson trimmer actually has different case holders for resized and as-fired cases, so people do both. The reason you normally resize first is that cases usually don't all grow much until you resize them, and then they don't all grow the exact same amount when you do, so your cases come out long and a little uneven. However, the chamber specs normally allow enough wiggle room that this doesn't present a danger as long as you trim at some point during each loading cycle.

I really like the wilson trimmer. but with over 5k pieces of brass to go through It is not a viably system.

Since I am using the RCBX X-die system I really want my case lengths consistent. I am, hopefully, only going to have to be trimming them once but want them to be consistent.

As stated cases grow when fired and resized. Thus trimming before resizing will give me inconsistent lengths. wont work for what I am doing.

hounddawg · May 11, 2021, 07:40 PM

Quote:

I really like the wilson trimmer. but with over 5k pieces of brass to go through It is not a viably system.

I love my Wilsons and can trim, debur, and chamfer about 50 or 75 pieces per hour without rushing. However if I had 5 K pieces that needed that I would just break down and go with Girauds and have a couple of spare batteries standing by for my cordless drill

Shadow9mm · May 11, 2021, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hounddawg

I love my Wilsons and can trim, debur, and chamfer about 50 or 75 pieces per hour without rushing. However if I had 5 K pieces that needed that I would just break down and go with Girauds and have a couple of spare batteries standing by for my cordless drill

I am really considering the Girauds for the drill. Just having a hard time deciding. Had the WFT and had problems getting it adjusted and a consistent trim. The Giraud looks like it had a lot better adjustment system, and would keep me from having to chamfer and deburr.

hounddawg · May 11, 2021, 08:51 PM

agree on the WFT, I could never get mine consistent either. You might be able to do 100 an hour on the Wilson if you used a case center to chamfer and deburr. Using the power drive adapter once you get into a rhythm it goes pretty fast. If I had a huge amount to do I would trim a couple of hundred then use my drill to chamfer and deburr the trimmed ones. Maybe do 200 at a sitting then take a break and do another 200 the next day etc. To do 5K might take me a month or more doing a little chunk each day

RC20 · May 12, 2021, 01:50 PM

Quote:

I am really considering the Girauds for the drill. Just having a hard time deciding. Had the WFT and had problems getting it adjusted and a consistent trim. The Giraud looks like it had a lot better adjustment system, and would keep me from having to chamfer and deburr.

I clamp my drill in a vice and I can run 300 in 15 minutes or so.

It is better if you can get vertical as the brass timings can work their way into the pilot (easy enough to clear but slows down)

Wiht the number of calibers I shoot now I went with their motorized. Expensive investment on first blush, but there are two ways to deal wiht the tooling.

1. Adjust the cutter for each case caliber (223/6.5/270/30-06 etc)

2. Get a cutter and see it for say 30 caliber, that will trim 308/06/7.5 Swiss

3. Regardless you need to get the adapters for each shoulder (you can use the 06 setup for 270 but you have to change the cutter)

I went with a cutter for each caliber so have 3 now (6.5 which will work for any 6.5/270/30 caliber.

Metal god · June 12, 2021, 03:18 PM

UPDATE ???

Trimmer working flawlessly now that you've got all the new parts ?????

milboltnut · June 14, 2021, 02:45 PM

You got spring back after sizing.... the case should not be dragging on the pilot, hence it comes loose. Try annealing the brass before trimming. I anneal first. After FL sizing I use a expander mandrel then I trim if I need to. sometimes more so often times Partial FL the brass doesn't need triming.

May 7, 2021, 02:19 AM	#26
ballardw Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 1,411	Wondering now if these pilots have some sort of casehardening or similar surface hardness that sand and polish removed, whether partially or totally. __________________ -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ All data is flawed, some just less so.

May 7, 2021, 04:04 PM	#27
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Yes, it would. Shadow9mm, Dry lubes like graphite and motor mica should work the same as they are used for expanders in resizing dies, and they don't have to be removed. Indeed, some think they are desirable to help stop sharp toolmarks in the brass from scraping the bullet jacket. In this article, the interviewee mentions putting Froggy's lube (graphite and alcohol mix I am told by someone who got some when it was still a product). You could do it before trimming and see what happens. Better to get the problem sorted by fit and finish, of course, but it is still something you can try without harm. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

May 7, 2021, 05:51 PM	#28
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,969	I had considered a dry neck lube. I may try graphite on the pilot. I am just having a hard time as I have a couple hundred more 308s and about 5k 223s to trim. I had a WFT but it was not giving me consistent OALs and i decided to go for a more consistent trimmer. I ordered new factory and hornady pilots. going to try that first. In regards to the case hardening. The coating on the pilots was not scoring as badly. however brass was still building up and getting embedded in the pilot. I tried a opper remover to get the brass off, and ended up using a light bore polish to get the rest off. after removing the brass it was down to bare metal, which is why i went ahead and polished the entire thing since the finish has already come off after about 400 cases trimmed. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

May 7, 2021, 07:18 PM	#29
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,875	I may have missed it what cartridge are you trimming ? Are these those once fired LC/NATO brass or does this problem happen regardless of case type ? __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

May 7, 2021, 08:59 PM	#30
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,969	Regardless of headstamp. My main issue has been 308. 223 has been a problem too, but not nearly as bad. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload. Last edited by Shadow9mm; May 7, 2021 at 09:14 PM.

May 8, 2021, 06:21 PM	#31
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,969	Ok, got the new pilots in today. Not sure if I got the cart before the horse so I decided to measure the brass and pilot before I started testing. I measured the brass. it is coming in right around 0.305 so about 0.003 smaller than bullet diameter. Original Redding pilot that has been polished is measuring a 0.302 the new Redding pilot is measuring 0.304 The Hornady Pilot is measuring at 0.304 With that said the Hornady pilot is shorter. less surface area contact in the neck to bind up. Got a few more days of work. Then its time to do some testing. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

May 9, 2021, 01:36 PM	#32
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	It will be interesting to learn if the loose pilot fit lets shavings get in between the pilot and the neck, exacerbating the problem. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

May 9, 2021, 02:21 PM	#33
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,875	I still think it's more the amount being trimmed off then the trimmer or pilots them selves . When I trim my LC once fired cases using a small base die . I've had to trim as much as .018+ off at times . That inside edge/cuttings that stays hanging onto the case mouth that we need to de-bur/chamfer always got hung up on the pilot and would roll up in between the neck and pilot . So much so at times the only way to remove the pilot was to remove the case from the trimmer with pilot still stuck in the neck . Then use pliers on both the case and pilot to pull them apart often ruining the case . My honest advice is switch to a different trimmer before you've spent enough trying to fix your trimmer you could buy another and the problem still not be fixed . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; May 9, 2021 at 02:27 PM.

May 10, 2021, 05:59 PM	#37
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	I don't use a trimmer that uses a pilot for trimming but my neck turner does use a pilot and it fits very tightly. Tight enough where I use a dab of Imperial on it. No shavings end up inside the neck. If you use a bushing die for sizing try a smaller bushing and see if that helps __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

May 11, 2021, 12:49 PM	#38
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	Disreguard what the instructions say ... trim fired cases ... before ... you size them . I know ... every expert say's to trim them after sizing and that advice sounds good But ... try trimming a few before sizing and see how it works for you ... I had the same problem your having 50 years ago with my rotary trimmer ... Trimming them before sizing works better than an Old Voo-Doo Womans Black Magic Spell! Try it ....you'll see Gary

May 11, 2021, 05:25 PM	#39
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	The Wilson trimmer actually has different case holders for resized and as-fired cases, so people do both. The reason you normally resize first is that cases usually don't all grow much until you resize them, and then they don't all grow the exact same amount when you do, so your cases come out long and a little uneven. However, the chamber specs normally allow enough wiggle room that this doesn't present a danger as long as you trim at some point during each loading cycle. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

May 11, 2021, 08:51 PM	#43
hounddawg Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Posts: 4,232	agree on the WFT, I could never get mine consistent either. You might be able to do 100 an hour on the Wilson if you used a case center to chamfer and deburr. Using the power drive adapter once you get into a rhythm it goes pretty fast. If I had a huge amount to do I would trim a couple of hundred then use my drill to chamfer and deburr the trimmed ones. Maybe do 200 at a sitting then take a break and do another 200 the next day etc. To do 5K might take me a month or more doing a little chunk each day __________________ “How do I get to the next level?” Well, you get to the next level by being the first one on the range and the last one to leave.” – Jerry Miculek

June 12, 2021, 03:18 PM	#45
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,875	UPDATE ??? Trimmer working flawlessly now that you've got all the new parts ????? __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

June 14, 2021, 02:45 PM	#46
milboltnut member Join Date: March 22, 2011 Posts: 121	You got spring back after sizing.... the case should not be dragging on the pilot, hence it comes loose. Try annealing the brass before trimming. I anneal first. After FL sizing I use a expander mandrel then I trim if I need to. sometimes more so often times Partial FL the brass doesn't need triming.