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Old May 4, 2018, 12:22 PM   #1
Saguaro 66
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why not.... ? Reduced loads for 300 H&H ?

A lot has been said about reduced loads and it's potential benefits
I have made many hundreds of reduced loads for the .308 Win
Combined with cast bullets makes practice very inexpensive. Reduced loads are also great for killing a wounded animal with respect, effectiveness, less noise and less waste of meat

Unfortunately Trail Boss is unavailable here and Vihtavuori Tin Star (N32C) is very difficult to get so I have been using 9mm Vectan ba9 with very good results in .308 which is a similar powder as Alliant Unique.

So..... can safe reduced loads be made with Alliant Unique or other pistol powders for a quite large case as the 300 Holland and Holland ?
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Old May 4, 2018, 12:44 PM   #2
Don Fischer
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I used a reduced load of something in a 7mm mag to blow out the shoulder's. Was many years ago and what happened was I shot them down into the ground and the rifle recoiled like I never felt before. Found out that magnum case's with reduced loads of powder just may jump pressure badly. Seem's that pointing the rifle down let's the light load settle to the front of the case. Then when you fire the round the spark goes over the top of the powder and burns backward greatly increasing pressure. I don't load anything in reduced loads any more, haven't since that day! All I shoot in my 308 is cast loads and greatly reduced loads of powder. Bit I put a quarter sheet of toilet paper in the case on top of the powder to keep the powder up against the flash hole. If it does that in the 308, I haven't a clue and prefer to void it. Wait a min. I thnk one of the problems with the reduced loads was I did use a slow powder with those one's I did in the 7mm mag. Probably N205, that stuff was great in that rifle.
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Old May 4, 2018, 12:51 PM   #3
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Unique or other pistol powders are way too fast to fiddle with. If you want a light .300 H&H load, there's 130 and 150 grain bullet data on Hodgdon's site.
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Old May 4, 2018, 12:58 PM   #4
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Quote:
A lot has been said about reduced loads and it's potential benefits
And a lot has been said about the possibility of rendering your rifle scrap. One rifle was rendered scrap with pictures included. The owner claimed he feed his 257 Weatherby a stead diet of reduced loads. And then he suggested he could have had a double load of powder.

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Old May 4, 2018, 01:01 PM   #5
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forgot: There was not one piece of bent and or curved metal in his pictures. The rifle came apart like a low number 03.

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Old May 5, 2018, 01:01 PM   #6
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Unique and 110 grain carbine bullets worked very well for me. I used them in 30-06. going too low didn't completely enlarge the case, a whiff of gas would slip through, and unburned powder would show up. I never pushed it very far and wound up with good accuracy, easy shooting.

Sorry, not going to share data.
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Old May 6, 2018, 11:24 PM   #7
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Do you have access to Red Dot over there?
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Old May 7, 2018, 07:54 AM   #8
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What bullet weight will you be loading?
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Old May 7, 2018, 09:25 AM   #9
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One of the keys to reduced Unique loads is keeping the powder charge against the primer, sometimes a filler is required... Dacron is a popular choice... or some just 'muzzle up' the rifle once the round is chambered to put the powder at the back of the case.

There are quite a few bulky pistol/fast rifle powders out there for reduced loads, I load low-velocity cast loads in my .45-70 with IMR4227, for example. Many others use 2400 and similar powders in that burn range. Hodgdon also recommends H4895 for reduced loads, and that is probably your best choice in that big case, if it's available to you.
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Old May 9, 2018, 11:13 AM   #10
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First of all, thank you gentleman for your input and opinions.

I'm no expert at hand loading but hey.... we all here want to learn more of it and share our personal experiences.
I'm over fifty and I do understand than hand loading is a serious business "per se" and reduced loads are even riskier.

Here in Europe --and also in Africa-- hunters have been successfully using reduced loads for long time due to ammo high prices.
If a single factory .308 cartridge can cost 2.50 USD to 4.50 USD a reduced hand load can cost as much as 15 cents

German bullet company H&N Sport makes good cheap soft bullets specially made to use with reduced loads. 500 bullets cost about 60 USD.
https://www.hn-sport.de/en/reloading/tc-308-165-gr-hs

https://www.reload-swiss.com/en/relo...en_1/index.php

There are lots published and contrasted data about reduced loads for .308 Win. with H&N bullets and I have made and shot hundreds of them.

http://www.lhs-germany.de/uploads/me...en_2010_01.pdf

In -308 Win R.L I never used filling, just 7gr to 13 gr of Vectan Ba9 --9mm powder-- a magnum primer and a slightly bigger flash hole. With a soft H&N 165 gr.
R.L's. with the Tikka T3 accuracy is impressive.


The only powders available here are Vihtavuori, Vectan and Reload Swiss.
I'd love to have some Red Dot or Trail Boss but that is not the case.

So... I was wondering if reduced loads can be safely made and shot for the .308 Win can the same be done in a bigger case like the 300 H&H ??

Last edited by Saguaro 66; May 9, 2018 at 01:56 PM.
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Old May 12, 2018, 09:59 AM   #11
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Where a small load in a .38 case may be perfectly safe, that same load in a .308 will ignite poorly as the capacity of the case increases, pressures reached will be lower, velocities will drop, and a stuck bullet will be a genuine concern. You would have to increase your load weight in proportion to your increased case volume to maintain safe ignition.

I just can't advise you beyond that. I don't personally believe that the .375 is a good candidate for highly reduced loads.
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Old May 13, 2018, 02:00 PM   #12
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Quote:
The only powders available here are Vihtavuori, Vectan and Reload Swiss.
You might contact those vendors and see if they might recommend one of their powders specifically for reduced loads in that cartridge.
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Old January 16, 2019, 05:23 AM   #13
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CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

I did contact Vihtavuori and no answer
I did searched in internet and found this Reduced Loads information for Magnum cases using Unique, which is very close to the european Vectan Ba9

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/arch.../t-134405.html


BY HANSUMTOAD:

09-14-2013, 12:54 PM
Have LONG used 15 grs of Unique for ALL the standard length mag cartridges with a magnum primer..... 257 Wby up to .375-338. Bullet weights from 85 grs to 300 gr depending upon the caliber. About the only thing that changes is the velocity. 85 gr (.257 Wby) was a little over 2100 and the 300 gr (.375-338) was in the mid 1400s.

Unique is not position sensitive although I have used the mag primer to ensure solid ignition.


10 gr for ALL standard cartridges.... same modus operandi. Works great.
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Old January 16, 2019, 10:38 AM   #14
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The quickload software is available in Germany. It will give you indication on a load's pressure. A tool to guide you on the right path perhaps.

BTW I am currently using ba9 for my pistol loads. It is a good powder and very affordable.

-TL

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Old January 18, 2019, 05:58 AM   #15
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Hi Tangolima,

As far as I know QuickLoad is only available for Windows. And because work reasons I have no computers with Windows system.

Here the results I have done so far:

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

- 25 gr Vihtavuori N-110 with 185 grain Frontier Flat Nose. Average velocity: 473 m/s ( 1551 fps) at about 7 degrees Celsius

Frontier CS Game Ranger -Flat Nose(South African bullets) are very hard, and the cheapest coppered bullets you can find here

For some reason this load was very accurate and bullet holes were touching each other at 75 meters

No O.P. signs, no recoil, low blast. P.O.I. 7 cm below "standard" loads

--I want to try the same 25 grains of N-110 with a lighter bullet like a 167 gr

-------

- 15 gr Vectan Ba9 -very similar as Unique- with HN 165gr 425 m/s (1394 fps)

HN Bullets are copper-plated lead bullet with additional plastic coating
prevents melting and lead abrasion suitable for reduced charges for rifles
This soft HN bullets are fine for maximum 525 m/s 1722 fps

No O.P. signs, no recoil, low blast. P.O.I. 11 cm below "standard" loads
------

I have done this test after some considerable searching to avoid dangerous loads

In order to avoid "double charges" I load one cartridge at a time

Input, comments and observations Welcome !
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Old January 20, 2019, 11:22 AM   #16
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It looks like you are doing things as right as you can for an area that there is not lab tested data for.

If you get a bolt that stick to any degree, watch the back sides of the cases for wipe marks, keep an eye on the primers for craters, pierced or flattened.

Low loads of powders can cause pressure spikes so you want to be on alert at all times for that.

Good luck.
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Old June 9, 2019, 08:38 AM   #17
Saguaro 66
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RC20, Thank you for reminding me about safety.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...safari-rifles/

AFAIK, and tested pistol powders as Unique are, below 15 grains, quite safer to use than reduced loads with rifle powders. No fillers needed. Velocities are quite constant and groups tight. Thank you anyway, we always must be careful.


CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

New Test:

(Only as information)

- 16 gr Vihta N-32-C -very similar as Trailboss, but less bulky - with HN 165gr About 425 m/s (1394 fps)

N-32-C is very similar as Trailboss, less bulky but more bulky than Unique.

No O.P. signs, no recoil, low blast. P.O.I. 11 cm below "standard" loads at 50 meters

Great practise loads to get more familiar with the rather long H&H bolt
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Old June 9, 2019, 11:17 AM   #18
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Lyman used to list reduced loads (mostly cast) using dacron wads to hold the powder against the primer. They stopped doing that due to pressure and barrel damage risks, they no longer list loads with any wads. My recommendation - don’t use wads, the risk of barrel ringing is real.

I know plenty of well-meaning folks will post that they’ve used wads for years with no problems - good for them. I know folks who drive 25 mph over the speed limit, I know folks who drink and drive, I know folks who smoke in bed. Those anecdotes prove nothing about the safety of their actions.

Ringing a barrel won’t happen every time, maybe never, but it happens often enough for a major loading data company to eschew the use of wads......



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Old June 9, 2019, 11:34 AM   #19
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Way easier to just own a varmint caliber rifle similar to your big game rifle.
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Old June 11, 2019, 06:13 AM   #20
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Mobuck, yes, of course. Nevertheless, when hunting I just take a rifle with me, and I use reduced loads to "finish off" at very close distance a wounded animal. Far less meat damage and noise report.
This practice is quite common in Africa where ammo is expensive and not always easy to find.
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Old June 11, 2019, 08:27 AM   #21
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Can you get IMR SR 4759? If you can Speer manual 14 has reduced loads for 300 H&H. Velocity ranges for 1900 fps to mid 200 fps max.
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Old June 12, 2019, 11:09 PM   #22
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SR-4759 has been discontinued for quite some time. If you can still find any, buy it all.
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Old June 13, 2019, 03:30 PM   #23
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TX Nimrod, I didn't know it was no longer made, sure lot post about it.
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Old June 13, 2019, 05:55 PM   #24
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You can use 16 grains of #2400 with up to a 160 cast bullet. This is an old Ed Harris load and I've used it in a few '06 family loads. The .300 H&H is only a little larger than the '06 so you could likely work up a load a grain or 2 hotter...

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Old June 15, 2019, 11:20 PM   #25
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Go to this link. Scroll down on the left to .300 WM. There is data for 170 cast bullets using a dozen or so powders.


http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm
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