August 4, 2008, 09:38 PM | #51 |
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500 and 590a1 are gov't models. I always like the 590a1 20" model heavy barrel ready for action. It is like the AK of shotguns.
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August 4, 2008, 10:16 PM | #52 | |
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Our troops are defending freedom with piece of garbage after market, cheap, unreliable magazines for the M9-- which won the contract over Sig Sauers' superior P226 largely for policital reasons. Sig isn't a NATO ally whose soil we need for U.S. Air Bases. Pentagon bureaucrats made the decision to stick with the inferior after market magazines, rather than purchase the good ones from Beretta. |
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August 4, 2008, 10:35 PM | #53 | |
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Chickenman wrote:
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EDIT: Only TFL is seeing that price too just FYI
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August 4, 2008, 10:57 PM | #54 |
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here is mine
its a 500 with some goodies
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August 4, 2008, 11:15 PM | #55 |
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Was never a huge fan of the carbon fiber stocks that they put on some of the 500's. They look alright, but just too light for my liking. Good looking gun you've got there though
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August 5, 2008, 05:37 PM | #56 | |
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August 5, 2008, 08:21 PM | #57 | |
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August 5, 2008, 10:09 PM | #58 | |
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But it's the same pistol grip used by SWAT team members to keep one hand free, enbabling them to do other things--like turn lights on/off, shut doors, grab a cell phone, or carry a child to safety. The same as we might have to do. I'd like to think my attorney is capable of making the case for my choice of weaponry, and for the ammo I might use, as well as defuse any red herring introduced by the opposition. |
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August 5, 2008, 10:14 PM | #59 |
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oops. deleted dbl post.
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August 6, 2008, 08:13 AM | #60 |
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Let me wade back into this.....
Practically ANY reliable shotgun shorter than 4 feet long makes a wonderful defense tool in trained cool hands. That last phrase is the key. We come up short way more than our tools do. In a crisis, when instantly at a gut level we understand just why they wanted to know who our next of kin is, physical things happen. Heart rate and strength goes up, vision focusses on what's deem the threat, and fine motor skills tank badly. If someone is trying to kill you, priorities AND ABILITIES shift. That's why they say combat changes people. I can't recall the names of all my girlfriends of yore, or those of folks I worked with for years, but every incident that threatened bodily harm to me still comes through like it happened this morn. As one of the Gun Gurus says, "We descend to our level of training". The military says that 50% of combat casualties from enemy fire happen during the person's FIRST firefight. Rather than focus on what shotgun to get or shudder, what bolt ons, try this checklist..... Am I fully proficent with the weapon? Can I operate it safely and effectively 15 seconds out of a sound sleep in low or no light when scared? Can I run my weapon without running it dry? What's my Plan B? A few minutes cogitation will bring up other concerns. A couple training tips.... A set of welder's goggles can imitate low light conditions for those of us with range access only by daylight. And more than 50% of crises occur after dark. Running in place before firing a COF spikes the heart rate and simulates adrenalin boost enough to warrant doing this. Shooting clay games is not only great fun but if shot Low Gun is great practice for getting a good mount quickly. And if you can acquire and neutralize a 4" disc moving on an unknown trajectory at an unknown speed within a second or so, larger, slower closer targets will give you little trouble. BTW, 4" is about the width of the CNS for much of its length. HTH.... |
August 6, 2008, 05:54 PM | #61 | |
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August 6, 2008, 06:25 PM | #62 |
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John whats wrong with BP flintlock with a bayonet lug on it.
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August 6, 2008, 08:16 PM | #63 |
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ya, you're right, a BP shotgun is all 99%(+) of us will ever need for home defence. But they're a pain in the arse and they make the room smell of smoke for days after pluggin someone.
The difference between BP shotty and an 870 is a lot farther apart than the difference between the 870 with factory stock and one with a pistol grip or the Saiga Semi for that matter. Stupid comparison. You gain practically nothing with pistol grip when it comes to effectivness and I'm not paranoid enough to think I need a Saiga with a drum mag to defend my home. LK |
August 6, 2008, 11:43 PM | #64 | |
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August 7, 2008, 02:53 AM | #65 | |
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August 7, 2008, 09:08 AM | #66 | |
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What's the difference between the Saiga and the 1100? Both are gas operated semi-autos. Does the detachable magazine make the Saiga "evil"? I imagine Chuckie Schumer or Diane Feinstein would say so, but would a gun-owner?
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August 7, 2008, 09:24 AM | #67 | |
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August 7, 2008, 12:03 PM | #68 |
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Quote bt John1911:
"Quote: The difference between BP shotty and an 870 is a lot farther apart than the difference between the 870 with factory stock and one with a pistol grip or the Saiga Semi for that matter. Stupid comparison. What's the difference between a plain Jane 870 and an 870 with a pistol grip? They both cycle the same way and have the same rate of fire. How does that extra plastic make one "bad"? What's the difference between the Saiga and the 1100? Both are gas operated semi-autos. Does the detachable magazine make the Saiga "evil"? I imagine Chuckie Schumer or Diane Feinstein would say so, but would a gun-owner?" I'm a gun owner and will defend anyone's right to buy any firearm they see fit even if I do think it's over the top and unneeded. On the flip side, I will also tell a fellow gun owner when I think certain items are over the top and unneeded. No one here is gonna agree on everything and I'm not gonna try. But these forums would get pretty lame and unnecessary if it's all one sided. I do think that items such as pistol grips and bayonets are over the top for home defence and do little, if anything, to help a home owner defend their home. These items can have ill effects on you and I in certain cases where the general public becomes involved. Like it or not, it was an effect. A basic pump gun is a great HD weapon. No reason to add all the Mall Ninja stuff to it. LK |
August 7, 2008, 03:14 PM | #69 |
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The best HD shotgun isn't a shotgun, but a Colt M4, 30 round magazine and a suppressor!, ( with an MP-5 in a close second place).....
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August 7, 2008, 03:29 PM | #70 |
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Here's my home security, a Mossberg 590 Mariner
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August 9, 2008, 02:42 PM | #71 |
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Good Thread
Just to chime in...
I have a Rem870 12g. I did buy a collapsible stock with pistol grip plus a mag tube extension. I used to say "a pistol grip belongs on a pistol" but after shooting my Rem870 with the collapible stock I really like it. At the end of the day you gotta go to ur gunshop of choice and handle the firearm. You will know which one is The One. Good Luck!!!
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August 9, 2008, 10:54 PM | #72 |
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+1 for the 870!
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August 10, 2008, 04:09 AM | #73 |
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What about ammo?
There's been a lot of debate between a Mossy 500 and a Rem 870. But there hasn't been mention about the proper ammo. If I read correctly, the original poster made mention about shooting slugs with a pistol grip shotgun.
Slugs? For home defense? I use game loads with 7-1/2 size shot. Pure devastation at under 15 ft., lighter recoil, and safer then over penetrating slugs. Oh, BTW. I solved the gun debate years ago. I have both the 870 AND the 500 under my bed. No faster reload than a 2nd gun! |
August 10, 2008, 05:33 AM | #74 |
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And with #7 1/2 shot you will very likely need that 2nd shotgun for back up. While a lot of the shotguns listed will work fine, my choice is an 870 with 20" IC barrel with rifle sights. Mine shoots slugs into 4"-5" groups at 100 yds and 2" groups at 50 yds. Buckshot patterns are still tight enough to be effictive out to 20-25 yards. Choosing birdshot is a very, very, poor choice. I would only use it if it were all I had and then would suggest the largest shot size available.
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August 10, 2008, 10:16 AM | #75 |
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Use #1 buck or #00 buckshot in an HD shotgun.
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