Making brass blunderbuss barrels.

Felenari · September 9, 2018, 01:45 PM

I'm trying to find some reading materials on the alloys and techniques used for making brass or bronze barrels. I'm working on building a percussion cap blunderbuss from scratch.

Does anyone perchance know of good reading on this? I'm making it a 50ish caliber. Depends on what tooling I can get my hands on.

I'm assuming brass barrels were cast, machined and then honed for durability to final size. Why brass? Because it's pretty and I'm not going hunting with it so I don't need any stopping power.

kenny53 · September 9, 2018, 10:26 PM

Wish I could help you. If you find any information please share it. Your project sounds fun.

Bill DeShivs · September 9, 2018, 10:49 PM

Research "gunmetal formulas."

Felenari · September 10, 2018, 02:05 AM

@kenny53 I'm going to try documenting the whole build and submit it as an article for maker magazine actually. I'll definitely share.

@BillDeShivs Thank you, I will.

Felenari · September 13, 2018, 02:17 PM

Well I've found a few alloys that will definitely work as muzzle loader barrels but the cost is astronomical for the size blank I need. Instead I'm going with 416 stainless as its almost a third of the price. I'll get it brass plated after machining. I'm starting a wood mockup in a few days to get my proportions right. Drawing it is nice but handing the chunk of wood will give me a better idea of ergonomics.

T. O'Heir · September 15, 2018, 01:01 PM

Original brass or bronze barrels(including cannons) were cast by bell makers because they knew what they were doing.
Traditions makes a kit. These guys sell barrels. Not exactly cheap or as much fun as making your own though. http://www.longrifles-pr.com/blunderbuss.shtml
"...going with 416 stainless..." Way better idea, if you have the machining skills and a lathe. Remember that '50ish caliber' doesn't mean a 1/2" hole drilled in your bar stock. A .50 round ball can be .490" diameter. Conical muzzle loading bullets can go to .512". You get to drill for whatever bullet you plan on using.
Blunderbuss' didn't use bullets though. Bits of nails, stones, etc. Think shotgun. 28 gauge is the closest to .50 cal at .550". 20 gauge is .615".
"...don't need any stopping power..." There's no such thing anyway, but the barrel material has nothing to do with it.

Felenari · September 15, 2018, 02:43 PM

I've seen most of the kits that are out there and I want to build something a bit... different. I'm studying gunsmithing at home right now and also at trinidad state in less than a year. I wanted to get a head start on my kit project and make it extra special for funnies. I'm learning lathing and milling but I'm already decent at most woodworking techniques. I like custom things but have no money for them so I have to build it myself.

Bill DeShivs · September 17, 2018, 08:08 PM

Stainless steel is difficult to plate. If you are going to plate the barrel, I would use carbon steel.

Felenari · September 18, 2018, 12:57 AM

Turns out I have a small chunk of half in wall 0.50bore steel in the shop from a cannon project I built a while ago. I'm going to make a prototype with that so carbon steel it is. :-P

I'll make the pistol before I do the full blunderbuss in nice wood and everything. Learn from my mistakes the first go around and all that. It'll be nice to make a set.

Felenari · October 1, 2018, 05:08 PM

So I'm working on octagonalizing (is that a word?) my round barrel with an angle grinder and files right now and realized I don't know where to install the nipple. I was planning on threading the chamber end of the barrel, putting in a large bolt and then drilling and threading that at a 30 to 45 degree angle from the barrel with a nipple. I don't know anything about how to calculate the stress on threads, how to calculate an appropriate nipple size or firing tube size. Anyone have any good reads on this?

It there a benefit to having your firing hole (is this the right term?) at the side or rear of the chamber? I imagine a middle of the charge hole makes for a faster burn while lighting from the rear (this needs to be a term) gives you a smoother burn and gradual pressure increase. Aside from my golfball/1lb mortar I'm very new to muzzle loaders.

T. O'Heir · October 2, 2018, 01:11 PM

"...is that a word?..." Probably not, but it is now. snicker.
Do not use an angle grinder. You'll never get 'em the same size. Put the thing in a milling machine index head. Mind you, blunderbusses rarely had octagonal barrels.
Sounds like you need to read a whole lot more. "Your firing hole" is called a flash hole. I'd suggest the Lyman BP Handbook and Reloading Guide. $23.98 directly from Lyman.

Felenari · October 2, 2018, 01:27 PM

I'm building a fantasy style buss. I'm designing this as a single shot sidearm for a Dwarven tunnel guard from the Warhammer universe.

I wish I had a milling machine. Right now best I can do is my half inch drill press with a crummy XY bench attached to it. I'll check out the Lyman book thank you.

I'm still working on my terminology for English tools and uses of them. I'm from Belgium originally. I can't rent time on a lathe/mill right now because I need to fix my house before I move to colorado. I took some lathing and milling when I was in atheneum but it's mostly forgotten now. I'm going to take my time laying out the marks and then rough it in with the grinder and then make it crisp by hand.

I do need to read a lot. I'm working through two gunsmithing books right now. Can't remember the title off hand but everyone told me they're pretty much required reading.

bamaranger · October 9, 2018, 02:13 PM

One of our members is having (or claims to) a blunderbuss build ongoing at this time. I ran a post somewhat earlier on blunderbusses after the American Rifleman" ran an article this month.

If you can manage some pics of your project, we'd all love it.

Felenari · October 9, 2018, 02:30 PM

Right now it's still in the drawing stages. I've cut some stones to use as a pommel for the grip and some other stones that aren't finished yet for the wood under the barrel.

September 9, 2018, 01:45 PM	#1
Felenari Member Join Date: September 9, 2018 Location: San Francisco Posts: 88	Making brass blunderbuss barrels. I'm trying to find some reading materials on the alloys and techniques used for making brass or bronze barrels. I'm working on building a percussion cap blunderbuss from scratch. Does anyone perchance know of good reading on this? I'm making it a 50ish caliber. Depends on what tooling I can get my hands on. I'm assuming brass barrels were cast, machined and then honed for durability to final size. Why brass? Because it's pretty and I'm not going hunting with it so I don't need any stopping power. __________________ Success is never guaranteed and failure is never permanent. If no one comes from the future to stop you, how bad could it be?

September 9, 2018, 10:49 PM	#3
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	Research "gunmetal formulas." __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

September 10, 2018, 02:05 AM	#4
Felenari Member Join Date: September 9, 2018 Location: San Francisco Posts: 88	@kenny53 I'm going to try documenting the whole build and submit it as an article for maker magazine actually. I'll definitely share. @BillDeShivs Thank you, I will. __________________ Success is never guaranteed and failure is never permanent. If no one comes from the future to stop you, how bad could it be?

September 13, 2018, 02:17 PM	#5
Felenari Member Join Date: September 9, 2018 Location: San Francisco Posts: 88	Well I've found a few alloys that will definitely work as muzzle loader barrels but the cost is astronomical for the size blank I need. Instead I'm going with 416 stainless as its almost a third of the price. I'll get it brass plated after machining. I'm starting a wood mockup in a few days to get my proportions right. Drawing it is nice but handing the chunk of wood will give me a better idea of ergonomics. __________________ Success is never guaranteed and failure is never permanent. If no one comes from the future to stop you, how bad could it be?

September 15, 2018, 01:01 PM	#6
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Original brass or bronze barrels(including cannons) were cast by bell makers because they knew what they were doing. Traditions makes a kit. These guys sell barrels. Not exactly cheap or as much fun as making your own though. http://www.longrifles-pr.com/blunderbuss.shtml "...going with 416 stainless..." Way better idea, if you have the machining skills and a lathe. Remember that '50ish caliber' doesn't mean a 1/2" hole drilled in your bar stock. A .50 round ball can be .490" diameter. Conical muzzle loading bullets can go to .512". You get to drill for whatever bullet you plan on using. Blunderbuss' didn't use bullets though. Bits of nails, stones, etc. Think shotgun. 28 gauge is the closest to .50 cal at .550". 20 gauge is .615". "...don't need any stopping power..." There's no such thing anyway, but the barrel material has nothing to do with it. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

September 9, 2018, 10:26 PM	#2
kenny53 Senior Member Join Date: December 30, 2015 Location: My back yard Posts: 971	Wish I could help you. If you find any information please share it. Your project sounds fun.

September 15, 2018, 02:43 PM	#7
Felenari Member Join Date: September 9, 2018 Location: San Francisco Posts: 88	I've seen most of the kits that are out there and I want to build something a bit... different. I'm studying gunsmithing at home right now and also at trinidad state in less than a year. I wanted to get a head start on my kit project and make it extra special for funnies. I'm learning lathing and milling but I'm already decent at most woodworking techniques. I like custom things but have no money for them so I have to build it myself. __________________ Success is never guaranteed and failure is never permanent. If no one comes from the future to stop you, how bad could it be?

September 17, 2018, 08:08 PM	#8
Bill DeShivs Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2006 Posts: 10,981	Stainless steel is difficult to plate. If you are going to plate the barrel, I would use carbon steel. __________________ Bill DeShivs, Master Cutler www.billdeshivs.com

September 18, 2018, 12:57 AM	#9
Felenari Member Join Date: September 9, 2018 Location: San Francisco Posts: 88	Turns out I have a small chunk of half in wall 0.50bore steel in the shop from a cannon project I built a while ago. I'm going to make a prototype with that so carbon steel it is. :-P I'll make the pistol before I do the full blunderbuss in nice wood and everything. Learn from my mistakes the first go around and all that. It'll be nice to make a set. __________________ Success is never guaranteed and failure is never permanent. If no one comes from the future to stop you, how bad could it be?

October 1, 2018, 05:08 PM	#10
Felenari Member Join Date: September 9, 2018 Location: San Francisco Posts: 88	So I'm working on octagonalizing (is that a word?) my round barrel with an angle grinder and files right now and realized I don't know where to install the nipple. I was planning on threading the chamber end of the barrel, putting in a large bolt and then drilling and threading that at a 30 to 45 degree angle from the barrel with a nipple. I don't know anything about how to calculate the stress on threads, how to calculate an appropriate nipple size or firing tube size. Anyone have any good reads on this? It there a benefit to having your firing hole (is this the right term?) at the side or rear of the chamber? I imagine a middle of the charge hole makes for a faster burn while lighting from the rear (this needs to be a term) gives you a smoother burn and gradual pressure increase. Aside from my golfball/1lb mortar I'm very new to muzzle loaders. __________________ Success is never guaranteed and failure is never permanent. If no one comes from the future to stop you, how bad could it be?

October 2, 2018, 01:11 PM	#11
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...is that a word?..." Probably not, but it is now. snicker. Do not use an angle grinder. You'll never get 'em the same size. Put the thing in a milling machine index head. Mind you, blunderbusses rarely had octagonal barrels. Sounds like you need to read a whole lot more. "Your firing hole" is called a flash hole. I'd suggest the Lyman BP Handbook and Reloading Guide. $23.98 directly from Lyman. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

October 2, 2018, 01:27 PM	#12
Felenari Member Join Date: September 9, 2018 Location: San Francisco Posts: 88	I'm building a fantasy style buss. I'm designing this as a single shot sidearm for a Dwarven tunnel guard from the Warhammer universe. I wish I had a milling machine. Right now best I can do is my half inch drill press with a crummy XY bench attached to it. I'll check out the Lyman book thank you. I'm still working on my terminology for English tools and uses of them. I'm from Belgium originally. I can't rent time on a lathe/mill right now because I need to fix my house before I move to colorado. I took some lathing and milling when I was in atheneum but it's mostly forgotten now. I'm going to take my time laying out the marks and then rough it in with the grinder and then make it crisp by hand. I do need to read a lot. I'm working through two gunsmithing books right now. Can't remember the title off hand but everyone told me they're pretty much required reading. __________________ Success is never guaranteed and failure is never permanent. If no one comes from the future to stop you, how bad could it be?

October 9, 2018, 02:13 PM	#13
bamaranger Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2009 Location: North Alabama Posts: 8,302	member One of our members is having (or claims to) a blunderbuss build ongoing at this time. I ran a post somewhat earlier on blunderbusses after the American Rifleman" ran an article this month. If you can manage some pics of your project, we'd all love it.

October 9, 2018, 02:30 PM	#14
Felenari Member Join Date: September 9, 2018 Location: San Francisco Posts: 88	Right now it's still in the drawing stages. I've cut some stones to use as a pommel for the grip and some other stones that aren't finished yet for the wood under the barrel. __________________ Success is never guaranteed and failure is never permanent. If no one comes from the future to stop you, how bad could it be?