75 Grain BTHP for .223 Rem

kilotanker22 · June 13, 2021, 09:29 PM

Previously, I tried the 75 grain Hornady BTHP for my Savage 110 Predator is 223 Remington. I originally thought that the bullets were key-holing, so I abandoned that bullet. Now, I have over 1000 of these bullets so I thought I would review the results. Upon further investigation, it seems that the bullets were not key-holing. I now believe that they were simply tearing the paper due to the target backer not being flat. I plan to try again.

I have three suitable powders for .223 Remington. I have BLC-(2), Power Pro Varmint and Varget. With the 69 grain Custom Competition bullet I have had excellent results with Power Pro Varmint. Great velocity and decent extreme spreads when only throwing charges. I am thinking that Varget might be better for the 75 grain bullets. At least as far as closing up my velocity spread a little more.

Do you guys have any favorite or known loads for the 75 grain Hornady BTHP and one of these three powders? Before y'all preach at me, yes I do know the basics of safety when loading.

Txhillbilly · June 13, 2021, 10:25 PM

I shoot a lot of 75 & 77 gr BTHP bullets out of my old Savage 12 FLVSS. It shoots them very good with a 1-9 twist barrel. I'll take a look at my log data when I'm out in the shop tomorrow.
My barrel will not stabilize the longer 75 gr AMax or ELD-X bullets.

HiBC · June 13, 2021, 10:49 PM

I'm shooting a 1 in 8 twist AR barrel. The 75 gr Hornady bullet is my go-to.
I really wanted Varget to be the powder of choice. Its good,but RE-15 outperformed it for me
Varget IS my choice with the 69 gr bthps

The Hornady manual has "Match AR-15" load pages. You will find charge weights for RE-15 there.

When I had a 1 in 9 in bbl The 69 gr Sierra MK and Nosler CC worked very well with Varget.Thats my go-to for 1 in 9 twist

A suggestion: Burn charts are moderately useful to get started,but only as a general indicator. The results vary depending on application.

I think I tried H-4895,BLC-2.TAC,Varget and RE-15.

I used Varget for other things,stocked 8 lb jugs,and really wanted Varget to win out.
It just could not keep up with RE-15 through the chronograph with 75 gr bullets. No remarkable difference in accuracy.

Shadow9mm · June 13, 2021, 11:20 PM

no load data for me. got some of these but have not had a chance to work anything up with them yet. will be looking forward to it.

I have heard great things about varget and heavy 223 bullets.

Based on the burn rate charts I saw BL-c(2) and and varget are pretty close together and Power pro varmint is a good bit slower. I would try the other 2 first especially since you have a 22in barrel to take advantage of the slower powders.

with the 1:9 twist bergers calculator shows marginal stability. at the stated 2800 fps range. it may do well up close and start falling apart at further ranges. It may not, only way to know for sure is to try.

jetinteriorguy · June 14, 2021, 10:07 AM

For heavier bullets in my AR it’s either H4895 or Varget for the win. But that’s a 1/8 twist barrel, for your 1/12 barrel I’d go with a lighter bullet, 52-62gr would be the range I’d use.

kilotanker22 · June 14, 2021, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetinteriorguy

For heavier bullets in my AR it’s either H4895 or Varget for the win. But that’s a 1/8 twist barrel, for your 1/12 barrel I’d go with a lighter bullet, 52-62gr would be the range I’d use.

My barrel is 1:9

**Unclenick** · June 14, 2021, 12:56 PM

It will depend some on the bullet design. The limitation of the online estimators is they make assumptions about shape and that the density of the bullet material is uniform throughout. With hollow points and plastic tips the density is not uniform and center of gravity is bit further back than a uniformly dense bullet of the same length would have. This means their transverse moment of inertia is lower than the estimator thinks it will be. As a result, bullets with a hollow front end frequently will still be stable when the estimators say they won't. This is especially true with 22's, where the plastic noses and hollows are proportionally bigger than for some of the larger calibers. Unfortunately, this means only testing will tell you for sure. You're not going to get a 90-grain VLD to run with a 9" twist, but the 75s may, especially in warmer, more humid weather when the air is less dense than in cool weather.

jetinteriorguy · June 14, 2021, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilotanker22

My barrel is 1:9

My bad, when I typed in a search I didn’t notice on the Savage website that it went to 22-250, not .223. I would think the 1/9 would definitely handle it fine.

kilotanker22 · June 14, 2021, 09:09 PM

Unclenick, this is a rifle that really only gets shot in warmer weather. There are not many varmints to hunt in northern Pennsylvania during the winter months. Coyotes maybe, but I do have lighter bullets to load and shoot in those conditions.

Its funny you mention the cold dry air being denser than warm and humid air. I was arguing with a friend of mine a few days about the effect that humidity has on the density of the air. I have been of the assumption for about a year now that humid air is less dense than dry air. Water vapor is less dense than air. So I figure that the the percentage of humidity there is in the air, the less dense the air will be.

I do apologize for rambling off topic. I still need an optic, so it might be a bit before I get this load going anyway.

Steve in PA · June 16, 2021, 01:43 AM

I have a Savage 12FV in .223 with a 1:9 twist barrel. I found the Hornady 75gr BTHP shoots quite well from this rifle using Varget. I think my load is 23.5gr.

While testing this load, I once put 3 rounds into 1 hole at 100 yards. I didn't believe it until I walked down range. I could only see one hole from the bench and I was thinking, great....this load sucks. I only hit the target once.

Nope.....three rounds into one hole. The hole was slightly bigger that one round, but basically....all went into a single hole.

9MMand223only · June 17, 2021, 09:05 PM

Here is some loads fro PP Varmint.
http://www.natoreloading.com/varmint/

Loads with varget, are going to be very similar to RL15
http://natoreloading.com/RL15/

bacardisteve · June 20, 2021, 07:02 AM

24gr of varget and a 75gr bthp shooters very well in every 223 I've ever tried it in. I have run that combo out to 500yds many times

mehavey · June 20, 2021, 08:51 AM

FWIW: I had a Colt HBAR/1:9 that couldn't handle anything bigger than 69gr.

I rebarreled w/ a 1:7.7 Krieger on it and .... "Boom!" ... half a dime with 77SMKs

**Unclenick** · June 20, 2021, 09:53 AM

It happens. People forget that barrel twist rates have tolerances just like all other gun dimensions, so someone with a nominal 9" twist might actually have an 8.5" twist or a 9.5" twist. It can be worth measuring to be sure of what you've actually got.

kilotanker22 · June 20, 2021, 07:13 PM

I started loading these with Varget and shot a couple 5 shot groups. I had a lot of horizontal dispersion (2" at 100 yards). It was quite windy and a thunderstorm was about to cut loose on me so the wind was choppy. I will probably not test this particular load again as my extreme spread across ten shots was 48 fps. I will continue testing charges till I find one that is better.

All the bullet holes appear to be perfectly round and do not show any signs of a wobble. Average velocity with this powder charge was 2850 fps using LC 20 brass, CCI 41 primers. Seated to 2.265" which turns out to be around .015" from making contact.

If I can get these bullets to shoot the way I want them to. I will be entering the F-Class 300 yard shoots at my local sportsman's club.

**Unclenick** · June 20, 2021, 08:53 PM

Would take about a 25 mph wind difference to move it 2" at 100 yards, but that's not unusual with a storm front blowing in. I hope you had an umbrella.

kilotanker22 · June 21, 2021, 08:22 AM

Luckily for me, the benches at my range are covered. There is a concrete slab with concrete benches. Covered from rain by the roof.

Rimfire5 · June 21, 2021, 01:47 PM

I've tried 77 SMKs and 77 TMKs in my two different 1:9 twist .223s.
Tested both twists and they came out as close to 1:9 as I could measure.

In the 26-in barrel Savage, the 77s out performed everything else, even the 69 gr SMKs and TMKs.
In the 24-inch barrel CZ, the 77s shot just about as good as the 69 SMks and TMKs.

I never could get the 75 grain Hornadys to shoot as well as the 69 or 77 grain Sierras.

Both rifles shot heavy bullets better than the 52s and 53s, which were the best of the lighter bullets.
The heavy bullets liked slower powders (basically .308 powders like IMR4064, H4895, N140 or IMR4166)
The lighter bullets performed best with faster powders (H335 & N133 - although they did pretty well with CFE223).

June 13, 2021, 09:29 PM	#1
kilotanker22 Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Location: North Central, PA Posts: 2,117	75 Grain BTHP for .223 Rem Previously, I tried the 75 grain Hornady BTHP for my Savage 110 Predator is 223 Remington. I originally thought that the bullets were key-holing, so I abandoned that bullet. Now, I have over 1000 of these bullets so I thought I would review the results. Upon further investigation, it seems that the bullets were not key-holing. I now believe that they were simply tearing the paper due to the target backer not being flat. I plan to try again. I have three suitable powders for .223 Remington. I have BLC-(2), Power Pro Varmint and Varget. With the 69 grain Custom Competition bullet I have had excellent results with Power Pro Varmint. Great velocity and decent extreme spreads when only throwing charges. I am thinking that Varget might be better for the 75 grain bullets. At least as far as closing up my velocity spread a little more. Do you guys have any favorite or known loads for the 75 grain Hornady BTHP and one of these three powders? Before y'all preach at me, yes I do know the basics of safety when loading. __________________ “We do not seek peace in order to be at war, but we go to war that we may have peace. Be peaceful, therefore, in warring, so that you may vanquish those whom you war against, and bring them to the prosperity of peace. – St. Augustine

June 13, 2021, 10:49 PM	#3
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,288	I'm shooting a 1 in 8 twist AR barrel. The 75 gr Hornady bullet is my go-to. I really wanted Varget to be the powder of choice. Its good,but RE-15 outperformed it for me Varget IS my choice with the 69 gr bthps The Hornady manual has "Match AR-15" load pages. You will find charge weights for RE-15 there. When I had a 1 in 9 in bbl The 69 gr Sierra MK and Nosler CC worked very well with Varget.Thats my go-to for 1 in 9 twist A suggestion: Burn charts are moderately useful to get started,but only as a general indicator. The results vary depending on application. I think I tried H-4895,BLC-2.TAC,Varget and RE-15. I used Varget for other things,stocked 8 lb jugs,and really wanted Varget to win out. It just could not keep up with RE-15 through the chronograph with 75 gr bullets. No remarkable difference in accuracy. Last edited by HiBC; June 14, 2021 at 10:25 AM.

June 13, 2021, 11:20 PM	#4
Shadow9mm Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 3,975	no load data for me. got some of these but have not had a chance to work anything up with them yet. will be looking forward to it. I have heard great things about varget and heavy 223 bullets. Based on the burn rate charts I saw BL-c(2) and and varget are pretty close together and Power pro varmint is a good bit slower. I would try the other 2 first especially since you have a 22in barrel to take advantage of the slower powders. with the 1:9 twist bergers calculator shows marginal stability. at the stated 2800 fps range. it may do well up close and start falling apart at further ranges. It may not, only way to know for sure is to try. __________________ I don't believe in "range fodder" that is why I reload.

June 14, 2021, 12:56 PM	#7
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	It will depend some on the bullet design. The limitation of the online estimators is they make assumptions about shape and that the density of the bullet material is uniform throughout. With hollow points and plastic tips the density is not uniform and center of gravity is bit further back than a uniformly dense bullet of the same length would have. This means their transverse moment of inertia is lower than the estimator thinks it will be. As a result, bullets with a hollow front end frequently will still be stable when the estimators say they won't. This is especially true with 22's, where the plastic noses and hollows are proportionally bigger than for some of the larger calibers. Unfortunately, this means only testing will tell you for sure. You're not going to get a 90-grain VLD to run with a 9" twist, but the 75s may, especially in warmer, more humid weather when the air is less dense than in cool weather. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 14, 2021, 09:09 PM	#9
kilotanker22 Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Location: North Central, PA Posts: 2,117	Unclenick, this is a rifle that really only gets shot in warmer weather. There are not many varmints to hunt in northern Pennsylvania during the winter months. Coyotes maybe, but I do have lighter bullets to load and shoot in those conditions. Its funny you mention the cold dry air being denser than warm and humid air. I was arguing with a friend of mine a few days about the effect that humidity has on the density of the air. I have been of the assumption for about a year now that humid air is less dense than dry air. Water vapor is less dense than air. So I figure that the the percentage of humidity there is in the air, the less dense the air will be. I do apologize for rambling off topic. I still need an optic, so it might be a bit before I get this load going anyway. __________________ “We do not seek peace in order to be at war, but we go to war that we may have peace. Be peaceful, therefore, in warring, so that you may vanquish those whom you war against, and bring them to the prosperity of peace. – St. Augustine

June 13, 2021, 10:25 PM	#2
Txhillbilly Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2008 Posts: 512	I shoot a lot of 75 & 77 gr BTHP bullets out of my old Savage 12 FLVSS. It shoots them very good with a 1-9 twist barrel. I'll take a look at my log data when I'm out in the shop tomorrow. My barrel will not stabilize the longer 75 gr AMax or ELD-X bullets.

June 14, 2021, 10:07 AM	#5
jetinteriorguy Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2013 Posts: 3,176	For heavier bullets in my AR it’s either H4895 or Varget for the win. But that’s a 1/8 twist barrel, for your 1/12 barrel I’d go with a lighter bullet, 52-62gr would be the range I’d use.

June 16, 2021, 01:43 AM	#10
Steve in PA Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 1999 Location: Northeastern PA Posts: 756	I have a Savage 12FV in .223 with a 1:9 twist barrel. I found the Hornady 75gr BTHP shoots quite well from this rifle using Varget. I think my load is 23.5gr. While testing this load, I once put 3 rounds into 1 hole at 100 yards. I didn't believe it until I walked down range. I could only see one hole from the bench and I was thinking, great....this load sucks. I only hit the target once. Nope.....three rounds into one hole. The hole was slightly bigger that one round, but basically....all went into a single hole. __________________ Steve

June 17, 2021, 09:05 PM	#11
9MMand223only Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2014 Posts: 283	Here is some loads fro PP Varmint. http://www.natoreloading.com/varmint/ Loads with varget, are going to be very similar to RL15 http://natoreloading.com/RL15/

June 20, 2021, 07:02 AM	#12
bacardisteve Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2006 Location: West virginia Posts: 653	24gr of varget and a 75gr bthp shooters very well in every 223 I've ever tried it in. I have run that combo out to 500yds many times __________________ Kill em all and let God sort em out! USAF

June 20, 2021, 08:51 AM	#13
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,896	FWIW: I had a Colt HBAR/1:9 that couldn't handle anything bigger than 69gr. I rebarreled w/ a 1:7.7 Krieger on it and .... "Boom!" ... half a dime with 77SMKs

June 20, 2021, 09:53 AM	#14
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	It happens. People forget that barrel twist rates have tolerances just like all other gun dimensions, so someone with a nominal 9" twist might actually have an 8.5" twist or a 9.5" twist. It can be worth measuring to be sure of what you've actually got. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 20, 2021, 07:13 PM	#15
kilotanker22 Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Location: North Central, PA Posts: 2,117	I started loading these with Varget and shot a couple 5 shot groups. I had a lot of horizontal dispersion (2" at 100 yards). It was quite windy and a thunderstorm was about to cut loose on me so the wind was choppy. I will probably not test this particular load again as my extreme spread across ten shots was 48 fps. I will continue testing charges till I find one that is better. All the bullet holes appear to be perfectly round and do not show any signs of a wobble. Average velocity with this powder charge was 2850 fps using LC 20 brass, CCI 41 primers. Seated to 2.265" which turns out to be around .015" from making contact. If I can get these bullets to shoot the way I want them to. I will be entering the F-Class 300 yard shoots at my local sportsman's club. __________________ “We do not seek peace in order to be at war, but we go to war that we may have peace. Be peaceful, therefore, in warring, so that you may vanquish those whom you war against, and bring them to the prosperity of peace. – St. Augustine

June 20, 2021, 08:53 PM	#16
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Would take about a 25 mph wind difference to move it 2" at 100 yards, but that's not unusual with a storm front blowing in. I hope you had an umbrella. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 21, 2021, 08:22 AM	#17
kilotanker22 Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Location: North Central, PA Posts: 2,117	Luckily for me, the benches at my range are covered. There is a concrete slab with concrete benches. Covered from rain by the roof. __________________ “We do not seek peace in order to be at war, but we go to war that we may have peace. Be peaceful, therefore, in warring, so that you may vanquish those whom you war against, and bring them to the prosperity of peace. – St. Augustine

June 21, 2021, 01:47 PM	#18
Rimfire5 Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 923	I've tried 77 SMKs and 77 TMKs in my two different 1:9 twist .223s. Tested both twists and they came out as close to 1:9 as I could measure. In the 26-in barrel Savage, the 77s out performed everything else, even the 69 gr SMKs and TMKs. In the 24-inch barrel CZ, the 77s shot just about as good as the 69 SMks and TMKs. I never could get the 75 grain Hornadys to shoot as well as the 69 or 77 grain Sierras. Both rifles shot heavy bullets better than the 52s and 53s, which were the best of the lighter bullets. The heavy bullets liked slower powders (basically .308 powders like IMR4064, H4895, N140 or IMR4166) The lighter bullets performed best with faster powders (H335 & N133 - although they did pretty well with CFE223).