Winchester Pony Safe - Problems

TwentyToo · January 20, 2015, 10:55 PM

Anyone else having problems with the contents of Winchester (mine is a Pony, a newer model) gun safes allowing contents to oxidize? Slight surface rust on metal surfaces?

I've been struggling with this safe (Pony 19 to be exact) for nearly a year now and four GoldenRods (1x12" and 3x24"), recharged 750 gram silica box and weather stripping as a door sealant later, it FINALLY has stopped allowing my firearms to oxidize (!!).

I have one other safe - a Stack-On that is much larger. It has two GoldenRods - 1x36" and 1x18" and has never, ever exhibited any - whatsoever - problems with allowing metal to oxidize. Ever. Not over many years. Not once or even one fleck on one gun. It holds a LOT of guns - many more than the Pony.

Both safes are in my climate- and humidity-controlled basement. Humidity never rises above 55 percent (multiple hygrometers say so) as this is where my dehumidifier is set. All guns are cleaned and oiled and protected (I use Eezox) the same way. Never a problem except with the Winchester Pony safe.

The Pony seemed to have problems holding temperature up that was created by the GoldenRods...so I added the weather stripping around the door so it would seal tightly and not allow heat to escape (the door has give compared to the Stack-On, which fits snugly).

So what gives? Any ideas? Some sort of weird chemical residue from manufacturing? I'm stumped...was it the heat escaping through the door? The humidity in each safe was always generally identical except the Winchester Pony wasn't holding temperature as well.

Very frustrating to find rust on your guns...it all came off easily but (some requiring Flitzing) boy you just feel robbed when you are doing everything right and you have an equipment failure like this.

Anyone else have this? Maybe this is a warning to others: stay away from Winchester Pony safes! I wish I had...most guns I had in this one were very nice Rugers...not cheap guns! Beware.

Lucas McCain · January 20, 2015, 11:43 PM

With humidity at 55% humidity you shouldn't be experiencing rust. However you may have a ozone problem. The presence of ozone can cause oxidation of metals. In your basement if electric motors are present they create ozone and depending on how many and how close the safe is to them that may be the problem.

I don't know how to check for it but if you have articles that are made out of rubber it is very prone to cracking and deteriorating. Rubber bands losing there elasticity is the first to show up. I have a hunting partner who hung a set of waders in his utility room. They only had 1 seasons use when he hung them in there. The next fall when he went to get his waders they were rotten and cracked, junk no good , not repairable.

Snyper · January 21, 2015, 01:30 AM

You seem to have the humidity under control, so maybe the solution lies in finding a better protectant to use on those guns

I like G96 Gun Treatment to prevent rust
http://www.g96.com/products/gun-treatment/#

mete · January 21, 2015, 05:10 AM

If there's only one safe with the problem then it's something in the safe .Is the safe lined with something like a rug ? That could be a source especially if the rug is made in places like China . Have you spoken to the safe maker ? My safe is unlined because the rug may hold moisture or more likely it's outgasing a chemical that may not be good for your guns or you !

TATER · January 21, 2015, 05:36 PM

Some Chinese Dry Wall had high sulfur content. drywall is used as fireproofing in many safes..

TwentyToo · January 21, 2015, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucas McCain

With humidity at 55% humidity you shouldn't be experiencing rust. However you may have a ozone problem. The presence of ozone can cause oxidation of metals. In your basement if electric motors are present they create ozone and depending on how many and how close the safe is to them that may be the problem.

I don't know how to check for it but if you have articles that are made out of rubber it is very prone to cracking and deteriorating. Rubber bands losing there elasticity is the first to show up. I have a hunting partner who hung a set of waders in his utility room. They only had 1 seasons use when he hung them in there. The next fall when he went to get his waders they were rotten and cracked, junk no good , not repairable.

Interesting about the ozone (thanks for the detection info)...although I don't think that's the possibility that is very intriguing. Rubber materials seem to last OK and there's only 1-2 electric motors running at any one time and not constantly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mete

If there's only one safe with the problem then it's something in the safe .Is the safe lined with something like a rug ? That could be a source especially if the rug is made in places like China . Have you spoken to the safe maker ? My safe is unlined because the rug may hold moisture or more likely it's outgasing a chemical that may not be good for your guns or you !

Quote:

Originally Posted by TATER

Some Chinese Dry Wall had high sulfur content. drywall is used as fireproofing in many safes..

These two are my best guess but I'm not sure what the chemical is...or how I should remedy it properly.

The Pony also couldn't hold heat very well. 40 watts of working GoldenRods couldn't raise internal temp more than a half of a degree above external ambient temp. It now has 60 watts of GoldenRod and weather seal around the door...which has helped with the temps.

I'm very curious if anyone will stumble in here with a similar story. Very bizarre.

mete · January 21, 2015, 08:15 PM

It isn't bizarre at all. Do some research.
For example the melamine in the milk scandal in China .While the western companies laughed they found , like Cadbury Candy , that all their candies with milk solids -those milk solids were from China. China executed at least one person involved.
New bridge, new buildings ,The latest a new tugboat = all are gone !!

I did see video of the high sulphur wall board turning everything made of copper corroded black .
Want to save the safe ? strip out the inside and install something safe !

TwentyToo · January 21, 2015, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mete

It isn't bizarre at all. Do some research.

For example the melamine in the milk scandal in China .While the western companies laughed they found , like Cadbury Candy , that all their candies with milk solids -those milk solids were from China. China executed at least one person involved.

New bridge, new buildings ,The latest a new tugboat = all are gone !!

I did see video of the high sulphur wall board turning everything made of copper corroded black .

Want to save the safe ? strip out the inside and install something safe !

You could very well be right about the sulfur. Some of the steel displayed what looked like tarnish as opposed to oxidation. Your theory is the best so far from what I've just read about sulfur and remember observing. There's no sulfur smell but I'm sure it doesn't take a human-detectable amount.

It does appear to be under control now though. Could be that excess sulfur - or other element - has dissipated or now it holds heat so it stays a couple of degrees above ambient. Or both or neither.

But I hate worrying about it.

Moral of the story is I would NOT recommend any Winchester safe. There is at least one manufacturing defect (not square so doesn't close snugly enough) and possibly contaminated materials that will at minimum tarnish your hardware. It's not worth it. Avoid.

TwentyToo · May 14, 2021, 07:40 PM

To follow up on the Winchester safe - I no longer use this safe. Every firearm I put in this safe got a nice, thin rust-like layer on every naked metal surface (bolts, sides of hammers, etc). Huge problem. It has sat empty in my basement for the last six-plus years. It sucks. I'm convinced there is some sort of chemical or molecule trapped in the fire board that affects steel. Probably something Winchester sourced for el-cheapo.

A dozen or more pistols stored ON TOP OF the Winchester safe on an open-air wire pistol rack - covered only by cheesecloth to repel dust - have been 100% rust-free in those six years. Including a few I haven't touched or cleaned in two-plus years. No BS - if anything, I am underestimating how long some of those firearms have sat dormant - and shown zero oxidation whatsoever.

Rifles stored on a non-enclosed, cheap wooden rack I built to replace this awful safe - and covered with a tarp 20ft away in the same, undivided basement - have been 100% rust free for six years. Again, six years.

I went around and around with Winchester at the time...sent photos, hygrometer data, spatial data, comparative data...everything. Every response was basically "you're probably just an idiot with a damp basement" or "we have a new product manager" (who never replied). Well now the evidence is clear: it *is* the safe and Winchester sucks. I wasted $800 for a sea-faring tanker anchor. Winchester safes are garbage. Further, Winchester will not stand behind their products. Let that be known. I'm reminded of this every time I see their horrid safe in my basement. I'm not even sure I'd store anything valuable in it...not coins, titles, other documents, anything. Now I have to figure out how to remove and discard $800 of bulky garbage since Winchester refuses to stand behind their product.

The moral of the story is to be careful who you buy safes from. And Winchester sucks. That is all.

Cheers!

TwentyToo · May 14, 2021, 07:55 PM

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10-96 · May 14, 2021, 09:07 PM

TwentyToo- I'm not the smartest man around by a long shot, but wouldn't those tag line things you posted (SEO Tokens?) pop up on searches folks might do for Winchester firearms and ammo? I'm not trying to be a toot, I just don't know how all these things work here in computerland.

TwentyToo · May 14, 2021, 09:45 PM

Agree and I thought long and hard about that aspect, 10-96. It is unfortunate, but aside from cheap 22 ammo and their now-Japanese-tooled firearms (which are excellent), I have had nothing but problems with Winchester over the last 5-10 years. Safes included. When I was young, the model 70 (featherweight!) was my dream. Elegant styling. Simplicity. Decades-old backing.

But like Remington, I fear Winchester has fallen victim to an il-advised corporate succession plan. Not that either is irredeemable but it'd take many years. What bothers me is that Winchester let themselves bottom out in the first place. Bulwarks always cede to time, unfortunately. Ruger may be next. Bill Ruger was the soul and it is obvious he is gone: design and manufacturing is now a cost concern as opposed to analog stout robustness. No denying that.

But it's not all gloom and doom. There are those who are ready to take their place and I have switched. CZ is still good. Mossberg is still relatively good (shotguns). There are more.

Which is fair warning to anyone new. Pains me to type all of this. Would you disagree?

January 20, 2015, 10:55 PM	#1
TwentyToo Member Join Date: November 15, 2012 Posts: 41	Winchester Pony Safe - Problems Anyone else having problems with the contents of Winchester (mine is a Pony, a newer model) gun safes allowing contents to oxidize? Slight surface rust on metal surfaces? I've been struggling with this safe (Pony 19 to be exact) for nearly a year now and four GoldenRods (1x12" and 3x24"), recharged 750 gram silica box and weather stripping as a door sealant later, it FINALLY has stopped allowing my firearms to oxidize (!!). I have one other safe - a Stack-On that is much larger. It has two GoldenRods - 1x36" and 1x18" and has never, ever exhibited any - whatsoever - problems with allowing metal to oxidize. Ever. Not over many years. Not once or even one fleck on one gun. It holds a LOT of guns - many more than the Pony. Both safes are in my climate- and humidity-controlled basement. Humidity never rises above 55 percent (multiple hygrometers say so) as this is where my dehumidifier is set. All guns are cleaned and oiled and protected (I use Eezox) the same way. Never a problem except with the Winchester Pony safe. The Pony seemed to have problems holding temperature up that was created by the GoldenRods...so I added the weather stripping around the door so it would seal tightly and not allow heat to escape (the door has give compared to the Stack-On, which fits snugly). So what gives? Any ideas? Some sort of weird chemical residue from manufacturing? I'm stumped...was it the heat escaping through the door? The humidity in each safe was always generally identical except the Winchester Pony wasn't holding temperature as well. Very frustrating to find rust on your guns...it all came off easily but (some requiring Flitzing) boy you just feel robbed when you are doing everything right and you have an equipment failure like this. Anyone else have this? Maybe this is a warning to others: stay away from Winchester Pony safes! I wish I had...most guns I had in this one were very nice Rugers...not cheap guns! Beware.

January 20, 2015, 11:43 PM	#2
Lucas McCain Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2013 Location: Callaway, MN Posts: 361	With humidity at 55% humidity you shouldn't be experiencing rust. However you may have a ozone problem. The presence of ozone can cause oxidation of metals. In your basement if electric motors are present they create ozone and depending on how many and how close the safe is to them that may be the problem. I don't know how to check for it but if you have articles that are made out of rubber it is very prone to cracking and deteriorating. Rubber bands losing there elasticity is the first to show up. I have a hunting partner who hung a set of waders in his utility room. They only had 1 seasons use when he hung them in there. The next fall when he went to get his waders they were rotten and cracked, junk no good , not repairable. __________________ If you have time to do it twice, then you have time to do it once right and put your name on it

January 21, 2015, 01:30 AM	#3
Snyper Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2013 Location: Eastern NC Posts: 3,047	You seem to have the humidity under control, so maybe the solution lies in finding a better protectant to use on those guns I like G96 Gun Treatment to prevent rust http://www.g96.com/products/gun-treatment/# __________________ One shot, one kill

January 21, 2015, 05:10 AM	#4
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	If there's only one safe with the problem then it's something in the safe .Is the safe lined with something like a rug ? That could be a source especially if the rug is made in places like China . Have you spoken to the safe maker ? My safe is unlined because the rug may hold moisture or more likely it's outgasing a chemical that may not be good for your guns or you ! __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

January 21, 2015, 08:15 PM	#7
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	It isn't bizarre at all. Do some research. For example the melamine in the milk scandal in China .While the western companies laughed they found , like Cadbury Candy , that all their candies with milk solids -those milk solids were from China. China executed at least one person involved. New bridge, new buildings ,The latest a new tugboat = all are gone !! I did see video of the high sulphur wall board turning everything made of copper corroded black . Want to save the safe ? strip out the inside and install something safe ! __________________ And Watson , bring your revolver !

January 21, 2015, 05:36 PM	#5
TATER Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2002 Location: Mississippi Posts: 963	Some Chinese Dry Wall had high sulfur content. drywall is used as fireproofing in many safes..

May 14, 2021, 07:40 PM	#9
TwentyToo Member Join Date: November 15, 2012 Posts: 41	To follow up on the Winchester safe - I no longer use this safe. Every firearm I put in this safe got a nice, thin rust-like layer on every naked metal surface (bolts, sides of hammers, etc). Huge problem. It has sat empty in my basement for the last six-plus years. It sucks. I'm convinced there is some sort of chemical or molecule trapped in the fire board that affects steel. Probably something Winchester sourced for el-cheapo. A dozen or more pistols stored ON TOP OF the Winchester safe on an open-air wire pistol rack - covered only by cheesecloth to repel dust - have been 100% rust-free in those six years. Including a few I haven't touched or cleaned in two-plus years. No BS - if anything, I am underestimating how long some of those firearms have sat dormant - and shown zero oxidation whatsoever. Rifles stored on a non-enclosed, cheap wooden rack I built to replace this awful safe - and covered with a tarp 20ft away in the same, undivided basement - have been 100% rust free for six years. Again, *six* years. I went around and around with Winchester at the time...sent photos, hygrometer data, spatial data, comparative data...everything. Every response was basically "you're probably just an idiot with a damp basement" or "we have a new product manager" (who never replied). Well now the evidence is clear: it is the safe and Winchester sucks. I wasted $800 for a sea-faring tanker anchor. Winchester safes are garbage. Further, Winchester will not stand behind their products. Let that be known. I'm reminded of this every time I see their horrid safe in my basement. I'm not even sure I'd store anything valuable in it...not coins, titles, other documents, anything. Now I have to figure out how to remove and discard $800 of bulky garbage since Winchester refuses to stand behind their product. The moral of the story is to be careful who you buy safes from. And Winchester sucks. That is all. Cheers!

May 14, 2021, 07:55 PM	#10
TwentyToo Member Join Date: November 15, 2012 Posts: 41	adding SEO tokens: Winchester, safe, problem, problems, issues, warranty, suck, sucks, fail, failure, rust, customer service, Winchester safe problems, Winchester safe issues, Winchester sucks, avoid Winchester, does Winchester suck, why does Winchester suck, should I buy a Winchester, Winchester warranty, should I buy a Winchester, why should I avoid Winchester. Thank you. Last edited by TwentyToo; May 14, 2021 at 08:08 PM.

May 14, 2021, 09:07 PM	#11
10-96 Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Tx Panhandle Territory Posts: 4,159	TwentyToo- I'm not the smartest man around by a long shot, but wouldn't those tag line things you posted (SEO Tokens?) pop up on searches folks might do for Winchester firearms and ammo? I'm not trying to be a toot, I just don't know how all these things work here in computerland. __________________ Rednecks... Keeping the woods critter-free since March 2, 1836. (TX Independence Day) I suspect a thing or two... because I've seen a thing or two.

May 14, 2021, 09:45 PM	#12
TwentyToo Member Join Date: November 15, 2012 Posts: 41	Agree and I thought long and hard about that aspect, 10-96. It is unfortunate, but aside from cheap 22 ammo and their now-Japanese-tooled firearms (which are excellent), I have had nothing but problems with Winchester over the last 5-10 years. Safes included. When I was young, the model 70 (featherweight!) was my dream. Elegant styling. Simplicity. Decades-old backing. But like Remington, I fear Winchester has fallen victim to an il-advised corporate succession plan. Not that either is irredeemable but it'd take many years. What bothers me is that Winchester let themselves bottom out in the first place. Bulwarks always cede to time, unfortunately. Ruger may be next. Bill Ruger was the soul and it is obvious he is gone: design and manufacturing is now a cost concern as opposed to analog stout robustness. No denying that. But it's not all gloom and doom. There are those who are ready to take their place and I have switched. CZ is still good. Mossberg is still relatively good (shotguns). There are more. Which is fair warning to anyone new. Pains me to type all of this. Would you disagree?