When is it okay to try and buy a gun someone is selling at a gun store? - Page 3

Metal god · October 26, 2017, 07:59 PM

If you have to just lie to them . Tell them your boss has reviewed the security tapes and believes they are actively trying to undermine his business . You must stop these activities or be banned from the store . Or have the boss do it , and really your not lying because you either know this or strongly believe this to be true . If this is truly effecting sales , something has to be done about it .

HiBC · October 26, 2017, 10:16 PM

A little off topic,but still on respecting the shop owner's territory.I'm a customer.Another guy comes in with a 10-22 with a scope base screwed on.
He says the firing pin is froze up.I have a pretty good idea of what the problem is. I walk away. I go to another part of the store and butt out.

When applying Loctite its best to use a match stick or toothpick or something. Straight from the tube can get you a "bloop" of too much Loctite. That's a hint.

I did talk with the smith about it after there was no customer in the store.
Other customers have overheard conversations between this smith and myself.
Some of them have approached me about "Are you a gunsmith".
I tell them,truthfully,"I am an amateur hobbyist who does my own work. I have no FFL. I cannot lawfully take on gun work. (Close enough to fact)
My smith knows I honor his turf.And,in fact,I have enough projects and problems! I don't take on work.

With this particular LGS owner..if I wanted buying opportunities while around his store,I'd simply have a conversation with him...one on one.
I'd promise never to approach his customer/deal...period. But,if he was sure there would be no deal,I'd be happy if at his discretion,he chose to invite me over,and ask if I was interested. Let the LGS owner be the agent.

tricky9914 · October 26, 2017, 10:39 PM

Metal God: Unfortunately, any confrontation with the customers is up to the boss (the store owner). It is his prerogative. Really, this question came up because lately this has been happening (really within the past 3-4 months) and is getting worse and worse. I have been at the store for 3 years and they have been open for 7. I have been unsure on my thoughts on it. Unfortunately, this has been happening with 4 regulars which have been with the owner for a while, so I feel (just my sense of things) that the owner feels bad banning people he has almost a decade-long relationship with. Just my thoughts, maybe he has his own reasons. But they keep going after people after leaving the store while still contemplating our offer.

One example: Just this week, we had a guy bring in a Desert Eagle .50AE brushed stainless. In the box, 98% condition, 1 magazine. We see them on Gunbroker for $1150-$1250. Owner offers $1,000. Customer straight up said "No". Not "I'll think about it", but "no". Store happened to be empty. We knew he would not get a better offer from our competitors and he didn't, he came back and sold it to us yesterday. Had one of those 4 guys been in, they would have chased him out the door and we would have lost the potential $150-$250 profit. I know this is anecdotal, but take it for what you will.

HiBC :I think you are very respectful and I am sure your gun store appreciates you. We have a couple regulars who are very very respectful in this regard and we invite them into deals ALL THE TIME if we are not interested. If we can get a win out of making a regular happy and letting a new customer sell a gun, then we are letting two happy people leave the store (an old customer and a new one) - just so long as the store is not interested in the gun. Honestly, our respectful regulars are invited into more deals than the "vultures" are. It pays to be respectful - your dealer will notice. In a very rude and inconsiderate world, the respectful customers stick out, at least in our store they do.

RodTheWrench · October 26, 2017, 11:45 PM

I remember the largest used gun dealer in our area (probably 2000 used guns at any given time on the racks/in the display cases) kicking people out for being vultures. He also refused to sell an especially desirable gun to a guy, and as the guy was complaining and asking why the dealer said "I remember when someone screws me over, and I haven't forgotten the deal on that SAA you sniped from me last December so NO DICE." Then he turned to me (a good customer, bought a lot of guns and referred a lot of business his way, helped out here and there with minor repairs etc) and offered me the same gun for $150 less. Karma is a bad girl...and I still have that gun 20 years later.

tricky9914 · October 26, 2017, 11:57 PM

RodTheWrench: That is a very good example. That $150.00 has probably been paid back to the dealer 10-fold. For that $150.00 he sent a message to a bad customer, hopefully keeping him from sniping other deals in the future. Also, for that $150.00 he took care of you as a good customer, and here you are speaking his good graces on a public forum (and I am sure you have shared that story with other local buyers in your area who have gone in to see him). He rewarded you as a good customer and I am sure, now, 20 years later you are still a good customer in their store (assuming they are still in business). You are right, karma works in this way and you benefited by being a good customer. You got a good deal on a gun you like AND you get rest easy knowing you are a respectable person. That is the way, in my opinion, business should be done.

TailGator · October 27, 2017, 03:29 PM

I think the question changes more than a little bit when you talk about people who don't buy store merchandise but hang out for the purpose of swooping in on these situations. My question to the owner would be, "What are you losing by sending these guys packing?"

johnwilliamson062 · October 27, 2017, 04:02 PM

Not in the store. Period. If I owned a store, I'd ban anyone who did. There is a lot of overhead on a retail store and anyone hanging around to get such deals is trash.

I was once in a store I knew the owner and worker of OK and someone had a lightly used gun with accessories and basically wanted new retail for guns and accessories. Something like $750 for G19 with some extra mags or four mags and two mediocre holsters. Dealer made a reasonable offer and they guy acted entirely insulted. It was clear they weren't going to come close to a deal as the seller had entirely unrealistic expectations. Guy wouldn't just leave either. The way he was carrying on was beginning to annoy me, so I made a reasonable offer somewhere in between their two numbers, but nowhere close to what he as asking, and told him that is what I would pay the dealer if he re-sold it, so he wouldn't offer more than that. He found my offer was equally insulting, and huffed and puffed his way out of the store. I think everyone was happy to be rid of the gun and its owner.

Chainsaw. · October 28, 2017, 09:15 AM

Im with Buck460. If Im in the shop, the deal between the shop and the customer doesn't work and I want the gun Ill talk to the customer OUTSIDE the store. In fact I did this with a gentleman who had a SS Blackhawk in 357 with a matching SS luepold pistol scope on it. Shop lowballed him, he walked, I caught him out side and we made a deal, I even had that same store do the transfer, everbody won.

vito · October 28, 2017, 09:47 AM

I wouldn't say a word while in the store, except..... in the case of where the gun store is really trying to rip off an ignorant seller, like a widow who does not have the least idea of the value of her late husband's guns and the clerk in the gun store taking advantage of this. I was at a shop a number of years ago that I rarely visited, actually just to pick up some cleaning patches, and a woman came in with what looked like an excellent condition Model 19 S&W. She asked the clerk how much it was worth and his answer was "oh, no one wants those old revolvers any more, but I can give you $25 for it" or similar words. I know it was not my place but I spoke up and just blurted out "that gun is worth several hundred dollars and I hope you don't sell it for $25". She looked stunned and walked out of the store, and the clerk told me that I needed to get out of the store right now and don't come back. I never went back to that store again and it went out of business a few years back.

JWT · October 28, 2017, 11:37 AM

Certainly not in the gun store.

T. O'Heir · October 28, 2017, 12:06 PM

"...Is it okay to chase them out the door and make a better offer (outbidding the gun store)?..." You're not at an auction with your boss as a competing bidder. Your boss won't care if you buy the thing at a higher price than he's willing to pay. He's not buying it for himself. He's buying it to resell.
Dealers base the money they'll give on their wholesale price and how fast they think they can sell the thing. It has nothing whatever to do with "very low ball". It's just how the firearm business works.
Got my Inglis BHP for $300 because the other guy working in the shop knew I wanted one(and had the money) so when a guy he knew came in looking to sell one, I got first pick. Guy never did come back with the CF issue holster. Different rules up here, of course. No such thing as an FFL and nobody in the shop cared. Got an issue 1911A1 because I wanted it and the boss needed stuff I could arrange for him to get.

Tony Z · October 29, 2017, 07:28 AM

I typically don't get involved in conversations or deals at stores, but I applaud what Vito said, and if given the same circumstances, I hope I would do the same.

I believe there are several lawyers here (one of my son in laws is an attorney), I believe they have a way of thinking, built around the phrase "but for". In the case of a LGS, but for the store existing, but for a persom coming in, wanting to make a transaction, to try to interject yourself in the LGS, or on their property outside, you are acting in an unethical manner, to try to buy the firearm in question. Talking to the person off site is fair game.

Rob228 · October 29, 2017, 08:04 AM

For me it depends on the shop. I've sent a lot of business to one shop in Boulder CO that ended up giving me some pretty good deals in return. I would never attempt to steal a customer from them.

There's a shop in Southern California that I walked into looking for a polymer 9mm and outright said that is what I was looking for. They had nothing in stock, so the owner, believing I was ignorant, attempted to sell me a S&W Model 25, because .45 Colt "Has more shock trauma than any other round". I would go out of my way to steer business away from him.

Ricklin · October 29, 2017, 08:53 AM

Tricky9914
Your store owner needs to take one of my first bosses favorite sayings to heart.

Throw them outside! Gus was a crusty ol greek and he meant it.
If he is worried about repercussions he can make it about "facilitating off the books transfers" after review of security tapes.

I do agree with TonyZ 100% Hanging out and sniping deals in the parking lot is HIGHLY unethical. If it were my store, I would do like Gus and throw them outside.

buck460XVR · October 29, 2017, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tricky9914

No, my line is STRICTLY for other customers in the store overhearing the conversation that was made possible by the store provided by the finances of the store owner. Those customers got the advantage of hearing the gun store's offer, they got the advantage of having a gun store to stand in where people bring in guns, and they get the advantage of competing with a dealer who needs to make money on the gun. None of this they paid for. They are taking advantage of a situation they did not pay for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tricky9914

Anyway, also, this kind of went off on a tangent. What I said earlier in one of my first posts is that we are having a problem with people hanging around for the purpose of finding these deals. That is really the root of all of this. If it happens here or there, then it happens - such is life. But what about the "gun store flies" that hang around waiting for the opportunity?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TailGator

I think the question changes more than a little bit when you talk about people who don't buy store merchandise but hang out for the purpose of swooping in on these situations. My question to the owner would be, "What are you losing by sending these guys packing?"

^^^ I'm with TailGator. When you get to the point of allowing folks to loiter and sit like vultures waiting to take advantage of you, then you are enabling. You have no one else to blame but yourself or no legitimate whine if you are allowing this to happen. You need to change your store policies or change the way you do your trades or buy used guns. If these guys are being jerks like you say, costing you money, then why are you not being a jerk and telling them to buy something or leave? As long as you don't tell them you have an issue with what they are doing, they are ignorant to the fact you are unhappy about it. If they do know and don't care, why worry about hurting their feelings asking them to leave?

Elliottsdad · November 6, 2017, 08:56 PM

Personally, I wouldn't interfere in the middle of a transaction, but..
I would have ZERO qualms following someone outside to offer a better price once the deal was over/on hold. If the business wanted to turn a profit, maybe they should have offered the seller a fair amount to begin with. Not my problem if they want to low ball their clients, and if a deal is made out in the parking lot, both buyer and seller walk away happy instead of the seller feeling like they just got screwed.
Again, I've never done this, but wouldn't lose any sleep if I had.
Also, if the business is smart, they should ban people who do this, as it negatively impacts the ability to offer far less than guns are actually worth, therefore hurting the bottom line.

October 26, 2017, 07:59 PM	#51
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	If you have to just lie to them . Tell them your boss has reviewed the security tapes and believes they are actively trying to undermine his business . You must stop these activities or be banned from the store . Or have the boss do it , and really your not lying because you either know this or strongly believe this to be true . If this is truly effecting sales , something has to be done about it . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

October 26, 2017, 11:45 PM	#54
RodTheWrench Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2013 Location: Utah Posts: 365	I remember the largest used gun dealer in our area (probably 2000 used guns at any given time on the racks/in the display cases) kicking people out for being vultures. He also refused to sell an especially desirable gun to a guy, and as the guy was complaining and asking why the dealer said "I remember when someone screws me over, and I haven't forgotten the deal on that SAA you sniped from me last December so NO DICE." Then he turned to me (a good customer, bought a lot of guns and referred a lot of business his way, helped out here and there with minor repairs etc) and offered me the same gun for $150 less. Karma is a bad girl...and I still have that gun 20 years later. __________________ "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." - Han Solo

October 27, 2017, 04:02 PM	#57
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	Not in the store. Period. If I owned a store, I'd ban anyone who did. There is a lot of overhead on a retail store and anyone hanging around to get such deals is trash. I was once in a store I knew the owner and worker of OK and someone had a lightly used gun with accessories and basically wanted new retail for guns and accessories. Something like $750 for G19 with some extra mags or four mags and two mediocre holsters. Dealer made a reasonable offer and they guy acted entirely insulted. It was clear they weren't going to come close to a deal as the seller had entirely unrealistic expectations. Guy wouldn't just leave either. The way he was carrying on was beginning to annoy me, so I made a reasonable offer somewhere in between their two numbers, but nowhere close to what he as asking, and told him that is what I would pay the dealer if he re-sold it, so he wouldn't offer more than that. He found my offer was equally insulting, and huffed and puffed his way out of the store. I think everyone was happy to be rid of the gun and its owner. Last edited by johnwilliamson062; October 27, 2017 at 04:10 PM.

October 28, 2017, 09:15 AM	#58
Chainsaw. Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2015 Location: Issaquah WA. Its a dry rain. Posts: 1,774	Im with Buck460. If Im in the shop, the deal between the shop and the customer doesn't work and I want the gun Ill talk to the customer OUTSIDE the store. In fact I did this with a gentleman who had a SS Blackhawk in 357 with a matching SS luepold pistol scope on it. Shop lowballed him, he walked, I caught him out side and we made a deal, I even had that same store do the transfer, everbody won. __________________ Just shoot the damn thing.

October 28, 2017, 09:47 AM	#59
vito Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2004 Location: IL Posts: 853	I wouldn't say a word while in the store, except..... in the case of where the gun store is really trying to rip off an ignorant seller, like a widow who does not have the least idea of the value of her late husband's guns and the clerk in the gun store taking advantage of this. I was at a shop a number of years ago that I rarely visited, actually just to pick up some cleaning patches, and a woman came in with what looked like an excellent condition Model 19 S&W. She asked the clerk how much it was worth and his answer was "oh, no one wants those old revolvers any more, but I can give you $25 for it" or similar words. I know it was not my place but I spoke up and just blurted out "that gun is worth several hundred dollars and I hope you don't sell it for $25". She looked stunned and walked out of the store, and the clerk told me that I needed to get out of the store right now and don't come back. I never went back to that store again and it went out of business a few years back. __________________ People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.” ― George Orwell

October 26, 2017, 10:16 PM	#52
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,286	A little off topic,but still on respecting the shop owner's territory.I'm a customer.Another guy comes in with a 10-22 with a scope base screwed on. He says the firing pin is froze up.I have a pretty good idea of what the problem is. I walk away. I go to another part of the store and butt out. When applying Loctite its best to use a match stick or toothpick or something. Straight from the tube can get you a "bloop" of too much Loctite. That's a hint. I did talk with the smith about it after there was no customer in the store. Other customers have overheard conversations between this smith and myself. Some of them have approached me about "Are you a gunsmith". I tell them,truthfully,"I am an amateur hobbyist who does my own work. I have no FFL. I cannot lawfully take on gun work. (Close enough to fact) My smith knows I honor his turf.And,in fact,I have enough projects and problems! I don't take on work. With this particular LGS owner..if I wanted buying opportunities while around his store,I'd simply have a conversation with him...one on one. I'd promise never to approach his customer/deal...period. But,if he was sure there would be no deal,I'd be happy if at his discretion,he chose to invite me over,and ask if I was interested. Let the LGS owner be the agent.

October 26, 2017, 10:39 PM	#53
tricky9914 Member Join Date: October 21, 2017 Posts: 17	Metal God: Unfortunately, any confrontation with the customers is up to the boss (the store owner). It is his prerogative. Really, this question came up because lately this has been happening (really within the past 3-4 months) and is getting worse and worse. I have been at the store for 3 years and they have been open for 7. I have been unsure on my thoughts on it. Unfortunately, this has been happening with 4 regulars which have been with the owner for a while, so I feel (just my sense of things) that the owner feels bad banning people he has almost a decade-long relationship with. Just my thoughts, maybe he has his own reasons. But they keep going after people after leaving the store while still contemplating our offer. One example: Just this week, we had a guy bring in a Desert Eagle .50AE brushed stainless. In the box, 98% condition, 1 magazine. We see them on Gunbroker for $1150-$1250. Owner offers $1,000. Customer straight up said "No". Not "I'll think about it", but "no". Store happened to be empty. We knew he would not get a better offer from our competitors and he didn't, he came back and sold it to us yesterday. Had one of those 4 guys been in, they would have chased him out the door and we would have lost the potential $150-$250 profit. I know this is anecdotal, but take it for what you will. HiBC :I think you are very respectful and I am sure your gun store appreciates you. We have a couple regulars who are very very respectful in this regard and we invite them into deals ALL THE TIME if we are not interested. If we can get a win out of making a regular happy and letting a new customer sell a gun, then we are letting two happy people leave the store (an old customer and a new one) - just so long as the store is not interested in the gun. Honestly, our respectful regulars are invited into more deals than the "vultures" are. It pays to be respectful - your dealer will notice. In a very rude and inconsiderate world, the respectful customers stick out, at least in our store they do.

October 26, 2017, 11:57 PM	#55
tricky9914 Member Join Date: October 21, 2017 Posts: 17	RodTheWrench: That is a very good example. That $150.00 has probably been paid back to the dealer 10-fold. For that $150.00 he sent a message to a bad customer, hopefully keeping him from sniping other deals in the future. Also, for that $150.00 he took care of you as a good customer, and here you are speaking his good graces on a public forum (and I am sure you have shared that story with other local buyers in your area who have gone in to see him). He rewarded you as a good customer and I am sure, now, 20 years later you are still a good customer in their store (assuming they are still in business). You are right, karma works in this way and you benefited by being a good customer. You got a good deal on a gun you like AND you get rest easy knowing you are a respectable person. That is the way, in my opinion, business should be done.

October 27, 2017, 03:29 PM	#56
TailGator Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,787	I think the question changes more than a little bit when you talk about people who don't buy store merchandise but hang out for the purpose of swooping in on these situations. My question to the owner would be, "What are you losing by sending these guys packing?"

October 28, 2017, 11:37 AM	#60
JWT Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2007 Location: Southern Arizona Posts: 3,888	Certainly not in the gun store.

October 28, 2017, 12:06 PM	#61
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	"...Is it okay to chase them out the door and make a better offer (outbidding the gun store)?..." You're not at an auction with your boss as a competing bidder. Your boss won't care if you buy the thing at a higher price than he's willing to pay. He's not buying it for himself. He's buying it to resell. Dealers base the money they'll give on their wholesale price and how fast they think they can sell the thing. It has nothing whatever to do with "very low ball". It's just how the firearm business works. Got my Inglis BHP for $300 because the other guy working in the shop knew I wanted one(and had the money) so when a guy he knew came in looking to sell one, I got first pick. Guy never did come back with the CF issue holster. Different rules up here, of course. No such thing as an FFL and nobody in the shop cared. Got an issue 1911A1 because I wanted it and the boss needed stuff I could arrange for him to get. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

October 29, 2017, 07:28 AM	#62
Tony Z Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2013 Location: North Central Pennsyltucky Posts: 749	I typically don't get involved in conversations or deals at stores, but I applaud what Vito said, and if given the same circumstances, I hope I would do the same. I believe there are several lawyers here (one of my son in laws is an attorney), I believe they have a way of thinking, built around the phrase "but for". In the case of a LGS, but for the store existing, but for a persom coming in, wanting to make a transaction, to try to interject yourself in the LGS, or on their property outside, you are acting in an unethical manner, to try to buy the firearm in question. Talking to the person off site is fair game.

October 29, 2017, 08:04 AM	#63
Rob228 Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2010 Location: Hampstead NC Posts: 1,450	For me it depends on the shop. I've sent a lot of business to one shop in Boulder CO that ended up giving me some pretty good deals in return. I would never attempt to steal a customer from them. There's a shop in Southern California that I walked into looking for a polymer 9mm and outright said that is what I was looking for. They had nothing in stock, so the owner, believing I was ignorant, attempted to sell me a S&W Model 25, because .45 Colt "Has more shock trauma than any other round". I would go out of my way to steer business away from him.

October 29, 2017, 08:53 AM	#64
Ricklin Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Location: SW Washington state Posts: 2,011	Tricky9914 Your store owner needs to take one of my first bosses favorite sayings to heart. Throw them outside! Gus was a crusty ol greek and he meant it. If he is worried about repercussions he can make it about "facilitating off the books transfers" after review of security tapes. I do agree with TonyZ 100% Hanging out and sniping deals in the parking lot is HIGHLY unethical. If it were my store, I would do like Gus and throw them outside. __________________ ricklin Freedom is not free Last edited by Ricklin; October 29, 2017 at 09:31 AM. Reason: Added thought

November 6, 2017, 08:56 PM	#66
Elliottsdad Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2010 Location: Glenwood, Iowa Posts: 238	Personally, I wouldn't interfere in the middle of a transaction, but.. I would have ZERO qualms following someone outside to offer a better price once the deal was over/on hold. If the business wanted to turn a profit, maybe they should have offered the seller a fair amount to begin with. Not my problem if they want to low ball their clients, and if a deal is made out in the parking lot, both buyer and seller walk away happy instead of the seller feeling like they just got screwed. Again, I've never done this, but wouldn't lose any sleep if I had. Also, if the business is smart, they should ban people who do this, as it negatively impacts the ability to offer far less than guns are actually worth, therefore hurting the bottom line.