It's OK to print - Page 2

Camguy · November 19, 2007, 12:33 PM

A very educational thread for me. I live in Virginia, so I was completely unaware of laws in other states such as Texas mandating "full concealment."
Since it's open carry here I'd face no legal issues if I printed.
Mind you, once I do get my CCW, I'll make every effort to carry discreetly, but what with all the things people have hanging off their belts these days I'm not going to worry too much if I bend over the wrong way and there's a visible bulge in my shirt.
When I bought my 92 FS I half-jokingly asked the dealer for a bag so I "didn't scare the citizens." He said "most people won't know what it is, and the ones who do won't care."
As for deranged ex-felons seeking veneance or gangbangers wanting an early Christmas, I'm not going to worry about those scenarios AT ALL for two reasons: they are so remotely unlikely as to be laughable, and secondly, I'll have a gun!

grey sky · November 21, 2007, 04:55 AM

I have spotted a couple of LEO printing. Fewer citizens or I didn't care (I don't view average joe as a threat) I find it unlikely anybody is looking that close at my figure to know or care about what is what under my clothing. Much ado about nothing. Behavior will give one away faster than printing.

obxned · November 21, 2007, 11:17 AM

I've seen more than a few people who I was pretty sure were carrying. Then their guns would 'ring' and they would answer them. Not every funny lump is a gun.

Stevie-Ray · November 21, 2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

As an aside, it's strange that in Texas, the land of "everyone has a gun" printing is illegal, but here in Michigan, a veritable USSR by comparison, prinitng is OK as long as you're allowed to carry concealed in the first place. Go figure.

I don't know what they'd be able to do in Michigan for mere "printing" since there is no law against open carry here.

**JohnKSa** · November 21, 2007, 08:14 PM

Just to clarify, it's not illegal to accidentally print in TX. The statute requires that the gun be concealed from normal observation. If you made a reasonable effort to conceal then it's not an issue if a gust of wind blows your shirt flat against the gun and it shows. But the initial post on this thread makes it sound like it's ok to print even if you know that your gun is easily detectable. That may be legal in some places, just not in TX.

Whether or not it's a good idea in the places where it's legal is another story altogether.

imthegrumpyone · November 22, 2007, 07:43 AM

The more I read this forum, and some of the questions and advise given, I can see why we have a problem with guns. Half of you have no business owning or carrying, my dimes worth.

Crimp · November 22, 2007, 08:31 AM

The West Virginia Code states:

Quote:

61-7-2(10) "Concealed" means hidden from ordinary observation so as to prevent disclosure or recognition. A deadly weapon is concealed when it is carried on or about the person in such a manner that another person in the ordinary course of events would not be placed on notice that the deadly weapon was being carried.

This Code is the one I'm mostly concerned with and I believe it's well stated. If someone sees your piece in the "ordinary course of events," then you are not concealed and are subject to the consequences. Punishment for printing is another story. The worst situation might be considered "brandishing" by a zealous officer and would be a misdemeanor if prosecuted.

rampage841512 · November 22, 2007, 08:57 AM

My 1911 prints* in a few of the shirts I wear, but you know what? It makes me look just like every other yuppie with a cell phone on a belt clip under my shirt with an IWB holster.

*By 'print' I generally mean that there is a noticable out line of something under my shirt, but not what that something is.

Stevie-Ray · November 23, 2007, 01:41 AM

Quote:

The more I read this forum, and some of the questions and advise given, I can see why we have a problem with guns. Half of you have no business owning or carrying, my dimes worth.

Tanzer · November 23, 2007, 07:58 AM

Well yougun,
Still think it's okay to print?

Quote:

The more I read this forum, and some of the questions and advise given, I can see why we have a problem with guns. Half of you have no business owning or carrying, my dimes worth.

Please explain.

joab · November 23, 2007, 10:06 AM

Don't encourage him, it's a habit
Don't play and he will go away

Hee hee hee, so easy to get 'em all razzed up.

NukemJim · November 23, 2007, 10:26 AM

Dear grumpybutt, I think you might be on the wrong website. Why don't you try this one

http://www.bradycampaign.org/

NukemJim

Boris Bush · November 23, 2007, 02:07 PM

You guys are a odd bunch. Didn't anyone ever teach you that there is a difference from cover and concealment? No matter what you do, if you are "concealing" a pistol it will print. Some way some how it is going to put an odd shape to your body. According to some here the very act of legaly carrying a pistol would therefore be illegal bucause you just told the world you are carrying.

If you read the laws, most will be the same. It is only considered brandishing if you let any part of the pistol become visible. The LAW says not one word about "printing". Now if you would please excuse me, I have to go do some black friday shopping. I hope no one bumps into me on my carry side while bucking the crowds.......

Double Naught Spy · November 23, 2007, 02:34 PM

Boris, that has to be one of the more naive posts I have read in a while. This isn't an issue of cover and concealment. We are not talking about hiding versus ballistic protection. And no, not all concealed firearms print. There you are mistaken.

Many forms of carry do result in printing, no doubt. However, they should not result in printing that makes the object being concealed be recognized for what it is.

If YOU read the laws, you will find they are not all the same. For example, many states don't consider a visible gun to be brandishing, but some do. As for laws not mentioned the word "print" or "printing," you are probably right, but in some places like Texas, if the printing is such that the gun can be recognized as a gun during normal observation, then it is not concealed and hence is illegally carried (by a CHL holder).

Tanzer · November 23, 2007, 04:13 PM

Quote:

No matter what you do, if you are "concealing" a pistol it will print

I'd lay odds that I could show two pictures of myself wearing the same button down short sleeve shirt on a summer day, and you could do nothing more than guess as to which one had me concealing a .45 ACP OWB. Likewise, two pictures of me in business attire. In which one am I carrying a .32 Kel-Tec in my front pocket?

sw_florida · November 23, 2007, 08:51 PM

Any gun hid under your clothes produces a bulge. But the bulge must not print in a way so that the shape is easily recognizable as that of a gun. That is how I interprete the law and I haven't been arrested yet.

geezer in NH · November 23, 2007, 10:01 PM

Man I am happy I do not live in one of the new Nanny CCW states.

Print being illegal? The gun is covered, duh that is concealed no where does the law say the shape of a gun to be illegal.

Note in your states all this crap is coming from the LEO and DA's who hate that they are not the elite anymore. You think you have CCW but you don't.

Wildalaska · November 23, 2007, 11:02 PM

I dont carry anything big enough to print

WildineverythingdiscretionAlaska TM

Stevie-Ray · November 25, 2007, 09:01 PM

Quote:

I dont carry anything big enough to print

Yep. I imagine around about now, you could hide a Barrett under all that clothing.

Wildalaska · November 25, 2007, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Yep. I imagine around about now, you could hide a Barrett under all that clothing.

Its 29 degrees, thats shorts weather

WildseecampweatherAlaska TM

XD Gunner · November 25, 2007, 11:47 PM

I was carrying when a LEO (Fish and Wildlife) spoke to me at my aunts store. I was wearing a thin fleece pullover with a rather large OWB and an XD40 service, he had no idea what it was that was making such a huge bulge on my side...

I showed him my CCDW and it hit him...

Sometimes LEO's aren't even paying attention.

Spade Cooley · November 26, 2007, 08:30 AM

I might be getting a little off topic but once anyone knows you are concealed carry, you have lost a big advantage. Bad guys practice taking away guns in prison and taking one away one from a civialian would be a piece of cake. They practice in order to take them away from LEOs. They look upon the general public as unarmed scarred rabitts. We should keep our readiness a secret which could give us the upper hand. Let the use of the weapon be a surprise and you will come out on top if you use your head.

Granted, Someone seeing the pistol is not the end of the world but I would rather they didn't know I had one.

Tanzer · November 26, 2007, 08:54 AM

Spade,
I agree with you, but your reply belongs on a thread named; Is it STUPID to print?

Kruniac · November 26, 2007, 10:57 AM

Firstly, if the law states that accidental printing is "okay", then how idiotic do you have to be to get busted for printing?

If the police question you about your print - say "I didnt really catch that. Someone mentioned it and I thought I had fixed the printing." I mean.. how hard is that? Two seconds to feed the cops a line that saves you from legal hassle.

Another thing to realize is that it really shouldnt matter if people can see that you are packing. This isnt a beauty contest, or a "tough guy" competition. CCWs are for shooting people, or just scaring off a threat in some cases. I've carried at public gatherings and so forth, and when someone comments I just say "Yeah, its a gun." if they ask to see it... "No, man. I just have it for protection, theres no need to bring it out around people." Its not hard.

Stevie-Ray · November 26, 2007, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Its 29 degrees, thats shorts weather

My thunder, it's colder than that, here!

November 21, 2007, 04:55 AM	#27
grey sky Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2007 Posts: 324	printing I have spotted a couple of LEO printing. Fewer citizens or I didn't care (I don't view average joe as a threat) I find it unlikely anybody is looking that close at my figure to know or care about what is what under my clothing. Much ado about nothing. Behavior will give one away faster than printing.

November 21, 2007, 11:17 AM	#28
obxned Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2007 Location: OBX, NC Posts: 1,128	I've seen more than a few people who I was pretty sure were carrying. Then their guns would 'ring' and they would answer them. Not every funny lump is a gun. __________________ “If we lose freedom here, there is no place to escape to. This is the last stand on Earth.” Ronald Reagan I'm a proud member of a North Carolina *Committee of Safety* Last edited by obxned; November 23, 2007 at 11:05 AM.

November 21, 2007, 08:14 PM	#30
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,993	Just to clarify, it's not illegal to accidentally print in TX. The statute requires that the gun be concealed from normal observation. If you made a reasonable effort to conceal then it's not an issue if a gust of wind blows your shirt flat against the gun and it shows. But the initial post on this thread makes it sound like it's ok to print even if you know that your gun is easily detectable. That may be legal in some places, just not in TX. Whether or not it's a good idea in the places where it's legal is another story altogether. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

November 22, 2007, 07:43 AM	#31
imthegrumpyone Senior Member Join Date: July 3, 2007 Location: spring tx Posts: 1,037	The more I read this forum, and some of the questions and advise given, I can see why we have a problem with guns. Half of you have no business owning or carrying, my dimes worth. __________________ chambered and unlocked

November 22, 2007, 08:57 AM	#33
rampage841512 Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2007 Location: Gardendale, Alabama Posts: 665	My 1911 prints* in a few of the shirts I wear, but you know what? It makes me look just like every other yuppie with a cell phone on a belt clip under my shirt with an IWB holster. By 'print' I generally mean that there is a noticable out line of something under my shirt, but not what that something is. __________________ "What is play to the fool and the idiot is deadly serious to the man with the gun." Walt Rauch,Combat Handguns, May '08*

November 19, 2007, 12:33 PM	#26
Camguy Member Join Date: October 24, 2007 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 86	A very educational thread for me. I live in Virginia, so I was completely unaware of laws in other states such as Texas mandating "full concealment." Since it's open carry here I'd face no legal issues if I printed. Mind you, once I do get my CCW, I'll make every effort to carry discreetly, but what with all the things people have hanging off their belts these days I'm not going to worry too much if I bend over the wrong way and there's a visible bulge in my shirt. When I bought my 92 FS I half-jokingly asked the dealer for a bag so I "didn't scare the citizens." He said "most people won't know what it is, and the ones who do won't care." As for deranged ex-felons seeking veneance or gangbangers wanting an early Christmas, I'm not going to worry about those scenarios AT ALL for two reasons: they are so remotely unlikely as to be laughable, and secondly, I'll have a gun!

November 23, 2007, 10:06 AM	#36
joab Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2002 Location: Orl Fla Posts: 3,254	Don't encourage him, it's a habit Don't play and he will go away Hee hee hee, so easy to get 'em all razzed up. __________________ Joab the Bugman Founding member- Lords of Pomposity It's a Yankee Doodle thing

November 23, 2007, 10:26 AM	#37
NukemJim Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2002 Posts: 287	Dear grumpybutt, I think you might be on the wrong website. Why don't you try this one http://www.bradycampaign.org/ NukemJim __________________ "Half of being smart is knowing what you are dumb at" "Guns shoot bullets. People shoot people."

November 23, 2007, 02:07 PM	#38
Boris Bush Junior member Join Date: September 7, 2007 Posts: 921	You guys are a odd bunch. Didn't anyone ever teach you that there is a difference from cover and concealment? No matter what you do, if you are "concealing" a pistol it will print. Some way some how it is going to put an odd shape to your body. According to some here the very act of legaly carrying a pistol would therefore be illegal bucause you just told the world you are carrying. If you read the laws, most will be the same. It is only considered brandishing if you let any part of the pistol become visible. The LAW says not one word about "printing". Now if you would please excuse me, I have to go do some black friday shopping. I hope no one bumps into me on my carry side while bucking the crowds.......

November 23, 2007, 02:34 PM	#39
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Boris, that has to be one of the more naive posts I have read in a while. This isn't an issue of cover and concealment. We are not talking about hiding versus ballistic protection. And no, not all concealed firearms print. There you are mistaken. Many forms of carry do result in printing, no doubt. However, they should not result in printing that makes the object being concealed be recognized for what it is. If YOU read the laws, you will find they are not all the same. For example, many states don't consider a visible gun to be brandishing, but some do. As for laws not mentioned the word "print" or "printing," you are probably right, but in some places like Texas, if the printing is such that the gun can be recognized as a gun during normal observation, then it is not concealed and hence is illegally carried (by a CHL holder).

November 23, 2007, 08:51 PM	#41
sw_florida Junior member Join Date: April 28, 2007 Location: In the shadow Posts: 526	Any gun hid under your clothes produces a bulge. But the bulge must not print in a way so that the shape is easily recognizable as that of a gun. That is how I interprete the law and I haven't been arrested yet.

November 23, 2007, 10:01 PM	#42
geezer in NH Member Join Date: September 28, 2007 Posts: 80	Man I am happy I do not live in one of the new Nanny CCW states. Print being illegal? The gun is covered, duh that is concealed no where does the law say the shape of a gun to be illegal. Note in your states all this crap is coming from the LEO and DA's who hate that they are not the elite anymore. You think you have CCW but you don't.

November 23, 2007, 11:02 PM	#43
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	I dont carry anything big enough to print WildineverythingdiscretionAlaska TM

November 25, 2007, 11:47 PM	#46
XD Gunner Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Location: Central Kentucky Posts: 636	I was carrying when a LEO (Fish and Wildlife) spoke to me at my aunts store. I was wearing a thin fleece pullover with a rather large OWB and an XD40 service, he had no idea what it was that was making such a huge bulge on my side... I showed him my CCDW and it hit him... Sometimes LEO's aren't even paying attention.

November 26, 2007, 08:30 AM	#47
Spade Cooley Junior member Join Date: June 24, 2007 Posts: 296	I might be getting a little off topic but once anyone knows you are concealed carry, you have lost a big advantage. Bad guys practice taking away guns in prison and taking one away one from a civialian would be a piece of cake. They practice in order to take them away from LEOs. They look upon the general public as unarmed scarred rabitts. We should keep our readiness a secret which could give us the upper hand. Let the use of the weapon be a surprise and you will come out on top if you use your head. Granted, Someone seeing the pistol is not the end of the world but I would rather they didn't know I had one.

November 26, 2007, 08:54 AM	#48
Tanzer Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2007 Posts: 884	Spade, I agree with you, but your reply belongs on a thread named; Is it STUPID to print? __________________ Only the ignorant find ignorance to be bliss. Only those of us who know better will suffer from it.

November 26, 2007, 10:57 AM	#49
Kruniac Member Join Date: March 22, 2005 Posts: 44	Firstly, if the law states that accidental printing is "okay", then how idiotic do you have to be to get busted for printing? If the police question you about your print - say "I didnt really catch that. Someone mentioned it and I thought I had fixed the printing." I mean.. how hard is that? Two seconds to feed the cops a line that saves you from legal hassle. Another thing to realize is that it really shouldnt matter if people can see that you are packing. This isnt a beauty contest, or a "tough guy" competition. CCWs are for shooting people, or just scaring off a threat in some cases. I've carried at public gatherings and so forth, and when someone comments I just say "Yeah, its a gun." if they ask to see it... "No, man. I just have it for protection, theres no need to bring it out around people." Its not hard.