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Old January 10, 2017, 12:13 PM   #1
Powernoodle
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Ruger customer service: Don't carry a loaded LCP II

Hello everyone. Maybe this is old news to some of you, but I was reading elsewhere on the interweb that the Ruger LCP II had no hammer block or drop safety other than the trigger safety. So I contacted Ruger customer service, and received this response:

" . . . if you chamber a round then yes the pistol is fully cocked. We do not recommend that you keep a round in the chamber since with any firearm if dropped it may discharge (please refer to page 14 in the owner’s manual). The inner trigger on the LCP II is a safety feature we offer, which means that it has to be depressed before you can pull the outer trigger to fire the pistol. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused."

Now, I've practiced law for 25 years, and while that does not make me the smartest person who ever lived, its clear to me that the primary reason for this warning is the mitigation of legal liability.

But still, this is pretty ridiculous. Considered if Ruger placed in its advertising the admonition not to carry the LCP II with a loaded chamber, though the gun is clearly intended for the concealed carry market. Its slimy, really. And a 6+1 gun now becomes a 6+0.

I own and occasionally pocket carry the LCP II, and will continue to do so. I l like the gun, and its a clear improvement over the original LCP. But honestly, I would not have purchased this thing if for no other reason than Ruger's admonition not to keep a round in the chamber. And now I'm not wholly convinced its safe to carry.

So as I understand it, and according to Ruger, the hammer on the LCP II is cocked by the action of the slide, which means its cocked when a round is chambered. Considering the lack of safeties, do you guys consider this to be a hazard if the gun is dropped? [And I have dropped loaded guns more than once in my life - each time it was a Glock].

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Old January 10, 2017, 02:47 PM   #2
pnac
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Does the LCP ll not have a firing pin block?
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Old January 10, 2017, 03:05 PM   #3
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Couple of quick points.
1. This probably belongs in the 'Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum' section.
2. You, of course, are free to carry as you see fit. Pay attention to the warnings or not.

But you do make a point. In the instruction manuals (available on line) both the LCP and the LCP II tell you not to carry the gun loaded and that it might go off if dropped.

Quote:
If the pistol is not to be used immediately, the magazine should be removed and the chamber unloaded.
Quote:
If dropped or struck, the pistol may fire. Keep chamber empty unless actually firing!
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Old January 10, 2017, 03:19 PM   #4
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It does not have a firing pin block. I just looked at the exploded diagram and the parts list.

I'm a bit surprised to find that out, but it does have a firing pin spring keeping the FP away from the primer. I guess that is enough, as it was on the 1911s for many years.

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Old January 10, 2017, 03:59 PM   #5
pnac
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Sounds like a poor design to me, I can't imagine a modern hammer fired pistol designed without either a hammer block or a firing pin block.
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Old January 10, 2017, 07:51 PM   #6
Aguila Blanca
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart Noir
I'm a bit surprised to find that out, but it does have a firing pin spring keeping the FP away from the primer. I guess that is enough, as it was on the 1911s for many years.
But that wasn't enough on 1911s. We thought it was, largely on the basis of a "test" posted on (IIRC) The Sight web site in which a 1911 slide and barrel were dropped down a pipe and didn't fire ... but it wasn't enough. More recently, two gentlemen named Walt Kulek and Drake Oldham did the same test but using a complete pistol, and their tests proved that a 1911 dropped on its muzzle WILL fire, from some rather low drop heights. Walt posted a write-up of this on the M1911.org forum (and probably on some other forums, as well).

That was enough to convert me. Before Walt released his finding I tolerated 1911s with the Series 80 firing pin safety but my preference was to avoid them. Now I'm the opposite. I'll not be immediately selling off any 1911s that don't have a firing pin safety, but I won't be carrying them.

I had no idea the LCP doesn't have a firing pin safety. To be honest, I'm rather shocked.
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Old January 10, 2017, 07:59 PM   #7
Slimjim9
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Wait, what? Why would any gun manufacturer in 2016 (that's when it was released right?) release a pistol that wasn't drop safe. Something doesn't smell right here?
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Old January 10, 2017, 08:26 PM   #8
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Happy as can be with my early Gen 1 LCP. Long DAO trigger like a revolver, and minimal sights that aren't needed at the range the use of a picket pistol is meant for anyway. I don't think they improved a thing. Just catered to a bunch of people that were complaining about a pocket pistol being just that. A pocket pistol, not a bullseye target pistol.
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Old January 10, 2017, 08:49 PM   #9
TunnelRat
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Quote:
Happy as can be with my early Gen 1 LCP.
So the manual for the Gen 1 doesn't have the same warning?
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Old January 10, 2017, 09:16 PM   #10
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I've never understood the principle behind the so-called safe trigger , which I believe originated with the Glock . Seems to me, anything that accidentally depresses the main trigger is going to also depress the inner trigger, so what about the design constitutes safe ?
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Old January 10, 2017, 09:18 PM   #11
Jim Watson
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The trigger tab is to keep the gun from firing if dropped muzzle UP.
It has nothing to do with finger position, or tree branches, or putting the combination on the door of the safe.

I did my own drop tests with a real 1911, primed case in the chamber, dropped on a wood floor from head height in various conditions of readiness and orientation. From the worst drop, the primer was marked about like what you get when unloading an AR.
If I carelessly drop it just exactly muzzle down on concrete, it might go off. In the least dangerous direction. I don't worry about it.
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Old January 10, 2017, 09:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Seems to me, anything that accidentally depresses the main trigger is going to also depress the inner trigger, so what about the design constitutes safe ?
It's no less safe than a double action trigger in that case. If something can depress the trigger the pistol will fire. Only a manual safety would stop what you're mentioning.
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Old January 10, 2017, 09:24 PM   #13
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Quote:
So the manual for the Gen 1 doesn't have the same warning?
The manual for almost every new gun I have bought in the last ten years has some form of that lawyer talk warning!
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Old January 10, 2017, 09:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
So the manual for the Gen 1 doesn't have the same warning?
Had to go find my manual, but yes it does include the same warning about firing if dropped or struck and to not carry it with the chamber loaded. (Page 15, big box with WARNING-HANDLING)
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Old January 10, 2017, 09:29 PM   #15
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Lawyer talk is one thing. Saying it's not recommended to carry a round chambered is on another level. I can't think of a manual that I have with that warning, but I can check I suppose. Then again I don't think any of my pistols currently lack a firing pin block.
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Old January 10, 2017, 09:36 PM   #16
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In the same paragraph they also say, in a large emphasized block, ANY GUN CAN FIRE IF DROPPED.
So according to the manual your firing pin blocks don't mean anything either.
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Old January 10, 2017, 09:36 PM   #17
FITASC
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At the end of the warning talk is:
"ANY GUN MAY FIRE IF DROPPED" (Yes, in all caps and a large font)
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Old January 10, 2017, 10:03 PM   #18
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Quote:
So according to the manual your firing pin blocks don't mean anything either.
According to Ruger's manual. The only Ruger I own currently is a Mk III.

I still consider a firing pin block a good idea. Seems weird to me for a more recent design to not include one.
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Old January 10, 2017, 10:20 PM   #19
Cheapshooter
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Quote:
I still consider a firing pin block a good idea. Seems weird to me for a more recent design to not include one.
I fully agree. That's why I said they didn't improve the LCP. A cocked hammer SAO handgun without a hammer or firing pin block is no improvement.
My old LCP without one is so unlikely to discharge by dropping it as to be non existant. How much energy can be created by inertia in just that little firing pin with the hammer only being able to travel about a quarter inch if it should break loose.
Maybe if it fell from the second story of a building, grip down, and a solid rod the right diameter was sticking streight up, and perfectly aligned with the hammer that is shrouded by the slide.
But then, maybe if I picked the right numbers on Power Ball, and Megamillions at the same time. About the same chances. No wait, I need to go get some lotto tickets. I think I'll have a much better chance!
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Old January 10, 2017, 10:43 PM   #20
Bill DeShivs
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There is no way I would carry a cocked SINGLE ACTION pistol in my pocket-especially with that Glock trigger dingus that has already proven to be dangerous.
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Old January 10, 2017, 10:44 PM   #21
TunnelRat
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Quote:
especially with that Glock trigger dingus that has already proven to be dangerous.
Wait, how is the dingus itself "dangerous"?
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Old January 10, 2017, 11:04 PM   #22
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Quote:
There is no way I would carry a cocked SINGLE ACTION pistol in my pocket-especially with that Glock trigger dingus that has already proven to be dangerous.
Does that include a 1911 in condition one?
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Old January 11, 2017, 12:27 AM   #23
Bill DeShivs
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Because the dingus is passed off as a SAFETY.
And, I cant get a 1911 in my pocket. If I could, it has a real safety-unlike the Ruger.
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Old January 11, 2017, 12:36 AM   #24
Deaf Smith
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The hammer on the LCP is fully concealed and it is NOT fully cocked when a round is chambered.

I see no reason to worry about this design.

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Old January 11, 2017, 12:53 AM   #25
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Quote:
Because the dingus is passed off as a SAFETY.
It is a safety. It functions as a drop safety for one thing and also reduces the chances of a trigger snag for another.

It is not a manual safety or a firing-pin safety, or a grip safety, but it is certainly a safety.
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