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Old December 11, 2016, 04:55 AM   #1
Pond, James Pond
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Any pros or cons to device mounted suppressors?

I mean that in comparison to suppressors that just mount on the muzzle itself.

I can imagine that it is better if any damage to the threads happens to the device not the gun, but beyond that?

Any effect on suppressor performance?
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Old December 11, 2016, 09:52 AM   #2
jmorris
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I am not sure what your asking. Are you asking about a thread on vs an integral?
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Old December 11, 2016, 10:08 AM   #3
Pond, James Pond
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I'm talking about the relative merits of a suppressor that you just screw straight onto a barrel thread like this:



And a suppressor that threads onto something like a compensator/flash hider designed to make with a proprietary suppressor like this:



Based on manufacturer specs there is not discernible difference but perhaps some first-hand, unbiased accounts could comment.
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Last edited by Pond, James Pond; December 11, 2016 at 10:14 AM.
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Old December 11, 2016, 02:30 PM   #4
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I see little advantage to the "quick attach" models as I leave the suppressor attached basically year-round. The only real advantage I could really feel a need for would be using a 14.5" barrel with a "pinned and welded" flash hider/QA mount that would bring the barrel up to legal(USA) length of 16" while reducing the overall length of the suppressed by 1.5".
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Old December 11, 2016, 04:20 PM   #5
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The advantage to a direct-thread silencer is that it tends to cause a smaller and more repeatable point-of-impact shift. Also, direct-thread silencers tend to be shorter since there's no quick-attach mechanism.

The advantage to a quick-attach silencer is that it's a lot easier and faster to attach. Also it's nice to be able to have a muzzle device on the rifle when you're not using it with the silencer. I have a muzzle brake on one of my ARs, and sometimes I shoot it without the silencer attached just for the heck of it. Also, if you're running one silencer on rifles with different thread patterns, it's a lot easier if you're using a quick-attach silencer than having to deal with thread adapters.

As a side bonus, a muzzle brake can -- in theory -- help your silencer last longer by acting as a blast baffle. In practice, I have no idea how much difference this actually makes since I've never tested it scientifically and I don't know anyone who has.

If you're like Mobuck and you just leave your silencer attached all the time, there's not really much use in having a quick-attach silencer. But if you're like me and you take your rifle silencers off a lot and move them around, it's pretty convenient.
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Old December 11, 2016, 04:27 PM   #6
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The can is likely to come off fairly often largely as I've learnt that suppressors do put extra strain on semis that have not been tweaked for suppressor use.

The brand I'm looking at has muzzle devices designed to mate with a can but they are not QR. Rather they are threaded too so you still need to screw the can on. Hopefully this means POA/POI would not suffer as described.
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Old December 11, 2016, 10:09 PM   #7
Bartholomew Roberts
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One thing to keep in mind with muzzle device mounted suppressors is they are usually proprietary. If the manufactirer of your suppressor goes out of business, you may find it difficult to locate additional muzzle devices for new firearms/new barrels even though the suppressor is perfectly functional.
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Old December 12, 2016, 12:01 AM   #8
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Many mount systems include locks that prevent the can from "walking" off, this reducing the chances of a baffle strike.
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Old December 12, 2016, 07:55 AM   #9
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"The brand I'm looking at has muzzle devices designed to mate with a can but they are not QR. Rather they are threaded too so you still need to screw the can on. Hopefully this means POA/POI would not suffer as described."

Commonly used "integral mounts" have ratcheting locks and fairly course threads on the interface between mount and suppressor. The idea is a larger diameter with courser, deeper threads will be more resistant to cross threading and damage to either muzzle or can.
POA/POI shift is noticeable with everything I've tried except 22lr. You can't expect much different when you start hanging 10-16 ounces of weight off the muzzle. The only shooter I've talked to who said there wasn't a significant change in POI was the same guy who commented that his rifle shot the same POI with 55 and 77 grain ammo-must be a very forgiving AR. On the other hand, he also did not use a rest even for zeroing his scope so there may be some "wobble factor" going on.
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Old December 12, 2016, 08:46 AM   #10
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Several of the new QD mounts on suppressors nowadays are very repeatable, such as the Silencerco Omega and their mounts (which also work on a couple other Silencerco models) and Surefire SOCOM series mounts.

I know that with the Silencerco Omega, the Q portion of QD is pretty relative. There is enough threading and locking that the only thing quick about it is that it is easier to start the threading process than with a direct thread.

Find a suppressor with a good QD mount system, and your results will be repeatable. The downsides to them as noted is that they may be a bit larger and a bit heavier because you need the mounting gear on both the suppressor and rifle. Also, there are more mechanism to break.

Direct thread is certainly repeatable. They can have a tendency to walk off the gun if you are not mindful and are a high round shooter.

The downsides to direct thread that I had seen is that accuracy may fall off if the suppressor does come loose and that damaging the threads on the barrel can be very detrimental to easy of mounting. It can be harder to get the threading started and more time may be involved in spinning the suppressor on the barrel.

Personally, the time issue is NOT a factor in anything I do.

Mobuck mentioned POA/POI shifts between unsuppressed and suppressed guns. Despite the claims made by some manufacturers, using a suppressor will not necessarily tighten up your groups. It may open up your groups. Also, it may throw your groups off by very little to 5-6". I have tested this on several guns on my range, talked to several suppressor owners and gotten their feedback, and watched a lot of the videos on Youtube that have shown some minor testing of this at distance (usually 50 or 100 yards - I test at 100). Some manufacturers will (or have) claimed "little or not POI shift" with the use of their suppressors. This is no more valid than the claim of tightening up groups.

As near as I can tell, putting a suppressor on a gun most definitely can affect the POI. It seems to have a greater impact on thin, light barrels than big, heavy, bull barrels, but this is not 100%. Putting the same suppressor on two different guns can result in dissimilar POI changes, but putting the same suppressor on the same gun should result in the same changes (with the same ammo) every time. Trying different suppressors on the same gun may get different results as well. Let's face it, when you put an extra pound or so of weight on the end of your barrel, it is going to affect the barrel harmonics and potentially droop...just like resting your rifle barrel on something and shooting may affect the POI.

So a threaded suppressor may not have a POI shift in the sense of repeatability, but it certainly may have a POI shift between unsuppressed and suppressed.

I don't know what is available oversees, but one of the reasons I went with the Silencerco Omega was because It can with parts to make it a direct thread suppressor or a QD suppressor. So I am good either way.
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