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Old December 1, 2016, 11:27 PM   #1
Chainsaw.
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FFL advise

Yes really. I do intend to get my FFL license. No not just to add to my collection. Any pointers? Did you do an LLC? Seems pretty much necessary.

One of my big questions is "hours".......I wont really have set hours, advise on what to put on the form?
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Old December 2, 2016, 01:13 AM   #2
9x19
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By Appointment Only.

There was a time they approved FFLs for that, but they have been less lenient for a long time.

They aren't friendly towards "Gun Show Sales Only" folks either, from what I hear.
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Old December 2, 2016, 12:29 PM   #3
dogtown tom
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Quote:
Chainsaw. .....One of my big questions is "hours".......I wont really have set hours, advise on what to put on the form?
The application asks what hours you intend to devote time and attention to your business. It is not necessarily the same as the hours you are open to the public.

The hours you put on your application are the only hours that ATF can come to do compliance inspections. If you get cute and put only 4-5am Saturday (thinking that would discourage a compliance inspection) ATF may tell you to reconsider your application.




Quote:
9x19 By Appointment Only.
There was a time they approved FFLs for that, but they have been less lenient for a long time.
Not a licensed dealer are you?
"By appointment only" may be fine for your business model, but isn't acceptable for the FFL application. ATF wants actual days and times.





Quote:
They aren't friendly towards "Gun Show Sales Only" folks either, from what I hear.
You definitely aren't a licensed dealer.
The Form 7 clearly states that a license will not be issued for someone who can only conduct business at a gun show....you are told to not even apply.

This doesn't prohibit a dealer from selling only at a gun show, it just means he must also have a licensed premises where it is legal to conduct his firearms business.
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Old December 2, 2016, 04:09 PM   #4
9x19
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dt Tom,

So, what I've heard is correct... I haven't looked at an FFL app since about 95 (shortly after I retired from the USAF). Back then you could get an FFL without a store front or business hours, but I decided to just make friends with two local Gun Shop owners (even covered the shop for one on weekends when he needed a break), so I get transfers for free and good prices on most everything.

I get a copy of his FFL each renewal and keep it on file for when I need one. It's easier than having my own... and he gets all of my non-online buisness.
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Old December 2, 2016, 05:53 PM   #5
Chainsaw.
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Dogtown Tom, so if I put 9-5 given that thats a good time (with an appointment) that an agent should be able to stop for inspections etc, thats good with them? This will NOT be my primary job so a pop in wont work.
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Old December 2, 2016, 08:53 PM   #6
dogtown tom
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Quote:
9x19 .....Back then you could get an FFL without a store front..
You still can. A storefront has never been a requirement.


Quote:
.....or business hours....
Has always been a requirement.
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Old December 2, 2016, 08:56 PM   #7
dogtown tom
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Quote:
Chainsaw. Dogtown Tom, so if I put 9-5 given that thats a good time (with an appointment) that an agent should be able to stop for inspections etc, thats good with them? This will NOT be my primary job so a pop in wont work.
Remember, they are not required to make an appointment, but often do when scheduling an inspection of a home based dealer.
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Old December 3, 2016, 11:52 AM   #8
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Wonderful. Thats the government for ya. Keepimg everything grey.
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Old December 3, 2016, 04:22 PM   #9
243winxb
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The place of business can't be in or attached to your home. It can be on your property as an out building or a stand alone garage.

Check zoning to see if allowed.

Being a dealer requires a lot of reading. Both to apply/get the FFL and know current gun laws.

You can subscribe to the ATF news letter by email or read online. https://www.ttb.gov/publications/newsletter.shtml

Then there is state/county license, plus sales tax exemp filing.

Last edited by 243winxb; December 3, 2016 at 04:36 PM. Reason: added link to newletter
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Old December 3, 2016, 11:46 PM   #10
dogtown tom
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Quote:
Chainsaw. Wonderful. Thats the government for ya. Keepimg everything grey.
Absolutely nothing gray about it.
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Old December 3, 2016, 11:50 PM   #11
dogtown tom
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Quote:
243winxb The place of business can't be in or attached to your home....
Horsehockey. Absolute, 100%, wholly malarkey.
No ATF regulation has ever prohibited a licensee from conducting business from his home. In fact, the majority of FFL's use their home as their licensed premises.

Heck, my first licensed premises was a rented townhouse.
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Old December 4, 2016, 12:51 AM   #12
243winxb
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residential zoning

What standards does ATF use to determine whether to give me a
license?
ATF will approve an application for a federal firearms license if the applicant:
 Is 21 years of age or older;
 Is not prohibited from shipping, transporting, receiving or possessing firearms or
ammunition;
 Has not willfully violated the GCA or its regulations;
 Has not willfully failed to disclose material information or willfully made false
statements concerning material facts in connection with his application;
 Has a premises for conducting business; and
 The applicant certifies that:
 the business to be conducted under the license is not prohibited by State or
local law in the place where the licensed premises is located;
 within 30 days after the application is approved the business will comply
with the requirements of State and local law applicable to the conduct of the
business;
 the business will not be conducted under the license until the requirements of
State and local law applicable to the business have been met;
 the applicant has sent or delivered a form to the chief law enforcement officer
where the premises is located notifying the officer that the applicant intends to
apply for a license; and
 secure gun storage or safety devices will be available at any place in wh

Home owners insurance will be void, unless you buy additional insurance to cover a home buisness. http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx...e=27:3.0.1.2.3
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Old December 4, 2016, 04:14 AM   #13
Theohazard
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243winxb: Did you actually read any of what you just posted? None of it backs up your claim that your place of business can't be in -- or attached to -- your home.
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Old December 4, 2016, 08:59 AM   #14
243winxb
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I said in post #9
Quote:
Check zoning to see if allowed.
Zoning laws. Its possible to get a variance from the county/township.

My gun smith had to get a lawyer to be allowed to convert his garage to this business area. The shop where he was working closed.

Residential zoning may allow a home business, but the areas square feet is limited to a small size in this township.

You have laws- Federal, state, county, township to deal with.

Good Luck.
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Old December 4, 2016, 05:30 PM   #15
Dufus
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Also Neighborhood Associations. My old neighborhood had it in the deed restrictions.
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Old December 4, 2016, 05:55 PM   #16
dogtown tom
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Quote:
243winxb

Home owners insurance will be void, unless you buy additional insurance to cover a home buisness.
Horsehockey. Your ignorance of ATF regs is as bad as your advice.
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Old December 6, 2016, 08:01 PM   #17
Chainsaw.
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Sorry but I see nothing in that language that states o the federal level one is not allowed to do bussiness from home. No local zoning, yeah thats another thing.
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