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Old January 3, 2017, 11:03 PM   #26
Walt Sherrill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs
Most Keltecs are actually "expert's" guns.
They have to be held properly, practiced with, and maintained properly. Basically, you have to understand the gun. Many can't or won't do this. They should just get a revolver.
There's something to those statements.

One of my shooting buddies, a very competent shooters and a collector of high quality guns, which he shot well, hated anything Kel-Tec. At the range one day he raised hell about a P3AT he had owned, saying it was the biggest piece of crap he had ever shot! Said his wouldn't hit the broad side of the barn!! With other guns, he could out-shoot me. I pulled my P3AT out of the gun bag and said, "Try mine. Maybe you had a bad one."

We set up a target about 20 feet distant, and he shot away. And he was right, he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it. I reloaded it and shot a 3" group at 20' -- and I'm a so-so/mediocre shooter. I'd argue that the problem wasn't the gun, but simply that the gun wasn't a good fit for him.

As it turned out, the P3AT didn't fit me either, as the trigger guard jammed my trigger finger painfully with each shot. A near copy, the Ruger LCP, didn't cause the same pain, and I eventually got one of those.... I later moved up to small 9mm guns, instead. Not quite the same gun role, but close enough for me -- since I just gave up on "pocket" guns.

Kel-Tecs aren't for everybody. But then, neither are Ruger LCPs or LC9's, or LC9s's, etc. I'm not sure blaming the gun is the solution. Some people just can't make a K-T (or any SMALL) gun work for them.
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Old January 3, 2017, 11:59 PM   #27
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To me a gun that has to be held " just so" is a bad design, to be avoided as a defensive firearm. A sudden attack may prevent you from getting the proper grip. And bad quality control is simply that. Asking purchasers to "fluff and buff," as Kel-Tec has for years, is really showing a measure of contempt for them. To those who like the brand, fine, hope you are happy, but OPs asking advice need to hear from the many of us who have found the brand to be less than adequate.
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Old January 4, 2017, 12:55 AM   #28
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I had two PF9s, nice little guns, no problems with them except the trigger guard is small if you're wearing gloves. I live in Maine so that's an issue a good part of the year.

I've never had any troubles with Kel-tec. In addition to the PF9s I've owned a P-11, PLR-16, and a P32, still have a P3AT from when they first came out, and just recently bought a KSG-12 shotgun. They make good quality, innovative guns that work and give good value for the money, that's a pretty important niche to fill in this market and they own it.
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Old January 4, 2017, 01:36 AM   #29
Bill DeShivs
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Keltec has never asked their customers to "fluff and buff."
Keltecs are designed to be as light as possible, therefore need to be held firmly and properly. Most autos will malfunction without adequate grip.
As I said, Mosin- they are for experts.
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Old January 4, 2017, 08:16 AM   #30
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I have all 4 KT pocket pistols. The P32, P3AT, & P11 are rough looking guns. The PF9 is the most polished but is also the harshest to shoot if it is not gripped properly. They are all reliable guns for the most part. Like any semi-auto, it has to be ran thru its paces for defensive use.
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Old January 4, 2017, 09:40 AM   #31
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Anecdotes are just that, but here is my recent one with my brother. At his place out in the woods (no safety issues) he banged off 6 from his Model 64. "Try this", says I, handing him my PF9. He unloaded all 8 one handed in the general direction of a tree as fast as he could. No problem with function. He is not an experienced handgunner and that with revolvers. Just sayin'.
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Old January 4, 2017, 10:44 AM   #32
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Bill De Shivs, you are the one who has suggested that Kel-tecs require "expert" handling to be reliable, and have identified yourself as such. Charming, but to me a pistol overly sensitive about the way it is gripped is a bad choice for defense.

I actually think Kel-tec's problem lies in the fact they haven't been able to assure sufficient quality control at their price point. No, they haven't ASKED their customers to "fluff and buff," but enough owners have felt compelled to do so that the phrase is almost synonymous with the brand, and may have been invented as a result of folks' experience with it. Maybe KT has improved, but that has been my miserable experience, and I am not inclined to try to find out if things have gotten better. In addition, as I've said, the PF9, to me, has excessive recoil and muzzle flip.

To me, the LCP has rendered the smaller Kel-tecs irrelevant, and for a belt/IWB gun, the Shield presents much higher quality and more pleasant shooting for a little over 100 bucks more. I haven't found a satisfactory pocket 9 yet, maybe that would be a good thread query.

I know I'm not going to convince you, Bill. You are the foremost champion of Kel-Tec on this site. It's like debating Kellgren's brother-in-law.......
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Old January 4, 2017, 11:20 AM   #33
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Mine is my winter coat piece, carry it all the time and no issues. I had a friend who got one in trade and it would not shot because the magazine kept falling out of it. He offered it to me for $100 and I took it. It was a small plastic part initially which Keltec replaced with a metal part for free. I popped the old part out, put the new one in and had another good shooter. Another friend wanted it so I sold it to him since I already had one. One of the few pieces I have turned loose of after purchasing.
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Old January 4, 2017, 12:14 PM   #34
Walt Sherrill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs
Keltec has never asked their customers to "fluff and buff."
True.

Various Kel-Tec related forums suggest it.

All the Fluff and Buff routine entails -- as you know -- is doing manually what normal break-in does... smoothing parts that need to be smoothed. Not a big deal, actually. Some folks do it with other guns, including ones that cost 4-5 times more.

I prefer the Fluff and Buff to shooting a lot of ammo because it's cheaper and quicker. Other guns often require breaking in, too.
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Old January 4, 2017, 01:27 PM   #35
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Keltec PF9 is a pain to shoot,no ftf problems, and when I had it had the mag ejected while shooting it several times even though it had the updated metal mag release sold it soon after.

P32 was garbage had several ftf mag after mag sent it to keltec they paid shipping and fixed it and I sold it soon after.

Keltec customer service is very good but their quality control sucks. My experiences were in 2012 so I dont know if they have made it better now, since I refuse to own another Keltec.
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Old January 4, 2017, 04:29 PM   #36
lee n. field
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Quote:
Keltec pf9
Anyone had any luck with the pf9. Or are they junk?
Got one a while back (aug, 2010). Shot well, but with a light strike failure once every couple boxes, no matter what ammo. Sent it it, the replaced a bunch of parts, and it worked perfectly ever since.

But, since it came back it was much harsher to shoot.

Anyway, my personal rule lately is not to hold onto a gun unless I'd be OK with it being my last gun. My PF9 wasn't there, so I sold it off and replaced it with a Springfield XDS9.

Would I get another one? mabye.

Would I get a different Kel Tec, given it's market niche? maybe.
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Old January 4, 2017, 04:37 PM   #37
lee n. field
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Quote:
All the Fluff and Buff routine entails -- as you know -- is doing manually what normal break-in does... smoothing parts that need to be smoothed. Not a big deal, actually. Some folks do it with other guns, including ones that cost 4-5 times more.

I prefer the Fluff and Buff to shooting a lot of ammo because it's cheaper and quicker. Other guns often require breaking in, too.
Yes and yes.

Currently "F&B"ing my new XDS45, waiting for the winter cold to break, and hoping it resolves some light strike failure to fire errors I experienced the first (only) couple times out. Reading on "teh Interwebs" makes me think it's a wear-in/break-in issue.
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Old January 4, 2017, 10:53 PM   #38
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I never had a single problem with mine and my brother hasn't either. The trigger pulls are a little stout but in my experience these guns are completely reliable.
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Old January 5, 2017, 08:23 AM   #39
Onward Allusion
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Quote:
but to me a pistol overly sensitive about the way it is gripped is a bad choice for defense.
Yeah, like some 1911's.
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Old January 5, 2017, 08:27 AM   #40
Onward Allusion
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Walt - Fixed it for ya . . .

All the Fluff and Buff routine entails -- as you know -- is taking a Dremel & a 60 grit sanding attachment to the throat & chamber.
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Old January 5, 2017, 08:44 AM   #41
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Mine has been reliable. The small frame and stiff DOA trigger that makes it a good pocket gun makes it hard (for me) to shoot well. 6" at 10 yards is about average for me but I only shoot it every 3 or 4 months as it is not a fun gun. When I find a good holster for my new Sig Ultra 9mm it will be my CCW most of the time.
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Old January 5, 2017, 09:56 AM   #42
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Onward, agree about "some 1911s". Wouldn't want a 3 inch .45 version of those either, though some here say the Colt Defenders are good.
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Old January 6, 2017, 06:47 PM   #43
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I have a PF9 and a P32...haven't had a problem with either one.
I Keep them clean and oiled and shoot ammo that they like.
My PF9 doesn't get used as much anymore,but my P32 is my bug gun everyday.
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Old January 10, 2017, 10:34 PM   #44
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I had an unusual occurence. I gave my PF 9 to my son. I had not fired it in perhaps a year but had no problems on my last outing. He called me and said nothing happened when he tried to fire it. I suggested he look at the firing pin, that perhaps it had broken. He called back and said he couldn't find the firing pin. Later, when I examined it, both the firing pin and its spring were absent. I have no idea how they could separate themselves from the gun without either of us noticing . Works fine with the new pin and spring .
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Old January 10, 2017, 11:20 PM   #45
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I have 4 ,P-32 1 , P3AT and a PF-9 Its 5 yrs old. Passed a 1000 trouble free rounds long ago. It has become one of my most carried pistols. My CW-9 is in its case. Haven't carried or shot in a while. I like the PF-9 better . Yes a little recoil. So do lite weight 357 mag snubs . So what still easy to control . I shoot mine 1 handed as I believe when its Oh S##t time. That way you will likely be shooting . Not the nice face on, 2 hand hold taught today . Sorry but at 70 I still shoot as I was taught years back.
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Old January 10, 2017, 11:39 PM   #46
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I have two Kel-Tec pistols. A P32 I bought used, in the original box. I don't think the previous iwner even cleaned the factory protectant out of it. Maybe even didn't shoot it. Lots of ftf problems with the first couple mags. Also failure to return to battery. After a good cleaning, and lube it got a lot better. My other Kel-Tec is a PMR 30. Similar, but not as sever problems at first. I haven't shot it a lot, but it did show signs of improving.
I think maybe their guns just need a good amount of running in to work reliably. Not used to that. My Ruger LCP, Kahr CM9, Springer XD40 Sub Compact, even Hi-Point C9 all ran 100% from the very start.
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Old January 11, 2017, 10:32 AM   #47
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I have never personally owned a PF9, but I have shot a few. Most worked great, but a friend of mine did get a dud a few years ago. It couldn't go through a magazine without an issue. I think he ended up giving up and selling it.
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Old January 11, 2017, 11:53 AM   #48
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I own 2 Kel-Tec's a .32 and a 9m/m, they are simple basic pocket pistols both with very heavy triggers, but are accurate enough for self defense use. Can't say they are fun to shoot with the 9 being the worst but have never had a f.t.f. with them and had a jam once with the .32. They are not my first chose for a carry gun but when size & weight become an issue they work very well in a pocket holster. They will never replace my light weight commander, B.H.P., or my 3 inch S&W's but are in the trusted carry group.
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Old January 12, 2017, 05:35 PM   #49
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reading all...it seems that girls have a hard time shooting the PF 9 because it kicks too hard. My P-32 is way less recoil.
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Old January 12, 2017, 05:47 PM   #50
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I bought a new P32, parkerized, at a good price. The P32 has a good reputation and I have found it reliable and very easy to shoot and conceal. It's not as nicely finished as my gen 1 LCP, but for the money I like it a lot, and trust it.

I did a bit of fluff and buff before firing a shot because I like my guns to run as smoothly as possible.
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