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Old January 9, 2017, 04:27 PM   #26
fotojake
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I sold a Ruger NM Blackhawk because the rear sights wiggled (one of the reasons) and it drove me nuts. Specifically bought a Model 64 so I wouldn't have to deal with rear sight adjustment, just learning where to aim with 38 spcl 158 grain ammo and be done with it.
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Old January 9, 2017, 06:48 PM   #27
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Does anyone really not care whether their POA and POI match?
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Old January 10, 2017, 07:32 AM   #28
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I suppose at some point in my life I have adjusted a pistols sights, but generally speaking I don't. Most of my guns come to me used and it seems the sights are usually right where I want them.

Now, I admit that I don't change loads, or shoot at anything very far away. I just figure if I miss, it was my fault.
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Old January 10, 2017, 08:32 AM   #29
micromontenegro
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Do you really take advantage of that adjustable rear sight
Oh yes I do, but not always by adjusting them. To me, the real advantage of adjustable sights in revolvers is their visibility. As my eyes age, I can't really see well most fixed ones.
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Old January 10, 2017, 09:36 AM   #30
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Does anyone really not care whether their POA and POI match?
I think I already answered that. With a fixed sight revolver, if I am plinking at soup cans on the 25 yard berm, I will hold appropriately so I know where the bullet will go. My life does not depend on hitting the can with the first shot, I am just fooling around. I have no problem taking a couple of shots to zero in on the hold needed for that pistol at that range.

I have WAY too many revolvers with fixed sights to start messing around filing down front sights and turning barrels to get them to shoot exactly to point of aim. Just not going to do that.
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Old January 10, 2017, 11:38 AM   #31
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I couldn't be bothered to mess with a gun that didn't hit where it's pointed.
As a buddy who spent time on a Russian fishing boat said, "Everyone strokes differently".
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Old January 10, 2017, 11:59 AM   #32
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Driftwood;

I do as you do. Make an adjustment the first range session with the load that will be used most frequently and then never adjust the rear sight again.

This has prompted me to go with the Ruger New Vaquero in .45 Colt. I've since sold my .45 Blackhawk.

I did buy a Ruger .45 Colt Redhawk (4.2") recently and with my handloads (255 grain with 10 grains of Unique) there was no adjustment necessary.
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Old January 10, 2017, 12:00 PM   #33
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Real Gun,

I dont think any of us want a gun that didnt shoot poa to poi. Maybe unless it is something that cant be fixed. I can tell you though that all of my guns that have adjustable sights, when I aim dont the sight, I ring dead center when I do my part. I havent had a NEED to adjust the sights.

Often times when you hear about someone adjusting the sights they say they shoot low left or something of the like and ask if they should adjust their sights. Most of us say to have someone proficient shoot the gun and check. Why would you adjust the sights to make up for fundamental shooting error when you could practice and become proficient with your weapon and shoot straight, rather than adjust the sights for poor trigger discipline.

Now if I shoot all my guns correctly and I have one that is off and other people shoot it and it is off, I will adjust. But sometimes you see these sights that are so far left or right to adjust and it is the shooter not the gun.

It all depends on if the sights have to be moved due to the shooter or due to the actual gun. Huge difference. Not to mention, if they are moved to the left or right you will be much further off at other ranges.
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Old January 10, 2017, 12:28 PM   #34
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Often times when you hear about someone adjusting the sights they say they shoot low left or something of the like and ask if they should adjust their sights. Most of us say to have someone proficient shoot the gun and check. Why would you adjust the sights to make up for fundamental shooting error when you could practice and become proficient with your weapon and shoot straight, rather than adjust the sights for poor trigger discipline.
Good point.

I can't tell you how many adjustable sighted revolvers I have bought used that had the rear sight shoved over to the right a bit. To me, that means the owner before me was probably right handed and he was probably pushing his shots to the left because of poor trigger technique.

But I have been known to push my shots to the left too, so I can't throw too many stones.
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Old January 10, 2017, 04:31 PM   #35
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Driftwood, don't you have one or two favorite revolvers with fixed sights?
Adjustable sights are the best way to go for most shooters for the obvious reason. Also most adjustable sighted revolvers come with a much better front sight than the typical fixed sighted revolver. It takes work to make that front sight acceptable. But it's worth it for a favorite revolver that will be used the most. It's worth it to me, but being a minimalist, I currently only have one revolver and it gets a lot of use. So I suggest you select one revolver, get a file, and stop foolin' around.
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Old January 10, 2017, 06:10 PM   #36
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Used guns

Seems like the used guns I get have been "adjusted" by someone who closes one eye when shooting.
Mine get adjusted if needed on the first range trip, I don't fool with em after that.
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Old January 10, 2017, 06:19 PM   #37
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I have one revolver with adjustable sights. Never messed with it. All the rest are fixed. Only have two that are DA and it's one of them.
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Old January 10, 2017, 08:37 PM   #38
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I commonly adjust the sights throughout a match. When you go from the 50 meter line to the 200 meter line in a silhouette match, you need to adjust. Lighting conditions will create a need to adjust sights, "Light up-sight up, light down-sight down." Even going from the slow fire stage at 50 yards to the timed-rapid at 25; I need to adjust my sights. Even different ammo will create a need to adjust.
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Old January 10, 2017, 11:44 PM   #39
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Quote:
Good point.

I can't tell you how many adjustable sighted revolvers I have bought used that had the rear sight shoved over to the right a bit. To me, that means the owner before me was probably right handed and he was probably pushing his shots to the left because of poor trigger technique.

But I have been known to push my shots to the left too, so I can't throw too many stones.
There is more involved than just trigger fundamentals to cause right handed shooter to "hit" left..

The torque from bullet and rifling engagement.
The presence of an entire hand on the right grip panel vs. just a thumb on the left, and this will change as recoil changes speed or intensity....but it almost always causes an off center hit to the left of the target.

I also find that (as my eyes age) if I forget myself and focus on the target instead of the front sight, I hit quite left if I let this happen.

Adjustable sights are nice...If a fixed sight gun hits left/right, she goes down the road real quickly. Just no use for a gun that doesn't hit where it is pointed.

100 yards over the pickup hood with "Old reliable".... 7 1/2" SBH shooting a solid copper 200gr. Cutting Edge Raptor. Sure couldn't shoot like this at distance if the gun can't/isn't sighted in.

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Old January 11, 2017, 09:58 AM   #40
Driftwood Johnson
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Driftwood, don't you have one or two favorite revolvers with fixed sights?
Adjustable sights are the best way to go for most shooters for the obvious reason. Also most adjustable sighted revolvers come with a much better front sight than the typical fixed sighted revolver. It takes work to make that front sight acceptable. But it's worth it for a favorite revolver that will be used the most. It's worth it to me, but being a minimalist, I currently only have one revolver and it gets a lot of use. So I suggest you select one revolver, get a file, and stop foolin' around.

Howdy Again

If you look real close at the front sight on the Stainless Vaquero at the top of this photo, you will see I filed down the sight a bit to bring the point of impact up to the point of aim.






Same with this one.






This pair of 2nd Gen Colts are my usual Main Match pistols in CAS. If you look real carefully at the front sight of the bottom one you will see a stripe of shiny metal where somebody actually added some metal because the sight had been filed down too low.



But the bottom line for me, as I have already said, is for CAS it really does not matter if I am hitting with pinpoint accuracy where I am pointing the gun. The targets are big, and you either hit it or you don't. No extra points for accuracy. And plinking at tin cans on the 25 yard berm, the same story.

I ain't going to tell you how many revolvers with fixed sights I own, but it is a whole lot. And I am not going to start filing front sights on all of them.

I will tell you that a couple of months ago I picked up nice S&W Model 15. A nice 4" 38 Special revolver with adjustable sights. When I bought it I could see that somebody had been filing on the front sight, but how bad could it be, I thought.

When I took it to the range, the front sight had been filed down so low that I could not get the gun to shoot anywhere near the point of aim, no matter what I did. It was shooting way high. The rear sight was already cranked down all the way, and there was nothing I could do to bring that pistol anywhere near the point of aim. The only way that gun could be sighted in properly would be to weld some more metal onto the front sight.

That one is probably going to do down the pike shortly.
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Old January 11, 2017, 11:06 AM   #41
BearBrimstone
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I make adjustments so rarely that I usually forget that some of my pistols have adjustable sights. I prefer sights that are not adjustable that way I don't have to worry about if someone else shoots my pistol and adjusts the sights without telling me making its POI different than I'm accustomed to.
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Old January 11, 2017, 08:13 PM   #42
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themalicious0ne:

Real Gun,

I dont think any of us want a gun that didnt shoot poa to poi. Maybe unless it is something that cant be fixed. I can tell you though that all of my guns that have adjustable sights, when I aim dont the sight, I ring dead center when I do my part. I havent had a NEED to adjust the sights.

Often times when you hear about someone adjusting the sights they say they shoot low left or something of the like and ask if they should adjust their sights. Most of us say to have someone proficient shoot the gun and check. Why would you adjust the sights to make up for fundamental shooting error when you could practice and become proficient with your weapon and shoot straight, rather than adjust the sights for poor trigger discipline.

Now if I shoot all my guns correctly and I have one that is off and other people shoot it and it is off, I will adjust. But sometimes you see these sights that are so far left or right to adjust and it is the shooter not the gun.

It all depends on if the sights have to be moved due to the shooter or due to the actual gun. Huge difference. Not to mention, if they are moved to the left or right you will be much further off at other ranges.
The conclusions from my experience do not match yours. If I have any doubts about my shooting, I check the gun shot from a rest. I typically go to the range with 8 or more guns. Some shoot great with sights unmolested. Others are adjusted for being off either in elevation or windage, always shooting at 50 feet. Then there is the bullet weight factor in my reloads.
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Old January 12, 2017, 12:39 PM   #43
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Adjust Sights?
Yes, but I buy mostly used guns. I have to correct the sights for POA/POI
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Old January 15, 2017, 03:53 AM   #44
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I adjust as needed.

But once set for a load that I'm using in a specific gun for a specific purpose then I normally let it be.

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Old January 15, 2017, 08:09 AM   #45
old bear
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I will use the sight adjustment option, only after I make sure my grip, stance, trigger pull, are correct. Then I will attempt to fine tune the sights. Once everything is working as well as I can get it to work, I leave the sights alone.

Every revolver I own is much more accurate than I am.
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Old January 15, 2017, 02:31 PM   #46
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Here's an example of something...

Well, how bullet weight effects point of impact. These were shot at 10 yards, single action from a Weaver stance (more or less) using a 4" S&W M681. 6'o'clock hold.

The upper target was shot with S&B 158 gr. TMJ. 14 rds.

The lower 18 rds. of Sig 125 gr. jhp.

(The middle target another gun doing something else. Not relevant here)



If we cut these two groups out and laid them on top of each other (discounting my self induced flyers) you'd see that the center of the two groups is maybe less than 2" from each other. Which is maybe a bit more than I'd get with some other ammo of two different weights from the same gun.

In self defense shooting this would make no significant difference. This is especially the case as I'd be more likely shooting da and fast and moving as whatever I'm shooting at moves.

It would also make little to no difference in many of the combat oriented shooting sports or CAS.

Extend that out to 25 yards and the centers of the two groups would be maybe 3-4" maybe a bit more. At 50 yards an uncomfortable bit more.That difference will vary on the ammo used as well.

To adjust, I could change my point of aim, especially with a favorite load in a favorite fixed sight gun. With adjustable sights, well adjust them.

In some shooting sports like Bullseye or IMSHA and in handgun hunting adjustable sights are a powerfully useful thing. They are also useful in trying out different loads.

With a fixed sight you can choose the load, or cook up one, that does what you want it to do with a particular handgun.

If you choose a gun and load for specific tasks the type of sights on it are a factor to consider. Both types have their strengths.

tipoc

Last edited by tipoc; January 15, 2017 at 02:36 PM.
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Old January 19, 2017, 04:38 PM   #47
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Unless I plan on carrying a pistol in my pocket or some other "deep cover" area or I want to keep a handgun looking "traditional" (i.e., a Colt 1873 sa or a German Luger), I prefer all of my handguns to have adjustable sights; some of the reasons to include: I shoot Bullseye, compete in various "combat" action events and hunt with handguns; many times with the same pistol expected to have a point of impact to coincide with the point of aim in terms of elevation settings, while using ammunition having different bullet weights and/or powder charges. Too, I have more than a few times gotten handguns from the factory having grossly misaligned sights. Finally, more often than not, adjustable sights are easier to see and aim with.

Drawbacks to adjustable sights include: they can snag on clothing during a draw from, say a pocket, when seconds might count in self-defense. They tend to be bulkier than fixed sights. They generally cost more. And, finally, though some argue that they are more fragile than fixed sights, in my experience, this criticism is much over-wrought in reality.

As tipoc noted, there is a place and reason for either type of sight.
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