.357 Maximum

ammo.crafter · February 8, 2018, 08:30 AM

Has anyone found a lever action rifle in .357 Maximum?

NoSecondBest · February 8, 2018, 08:38 AM

None that are a commercially sold item. By lever gun I assume you mean a repeater, not a single shot such as a Low Wall or Sharps.

taylorce1 · February 8, 2018, 09:20 AM

Read This!

johnwilliamson062 · February 8, 2018, 10:15 AM

I have asked Big Horn Armory if they intend to pursue said project several times. Not recently though. Last time I asked the reply was an emphatic 'NO!' that led me to believe they had been working one and it frustrated them to the point of throwing in the towel. Consider how some lever guns won't cycle all factory ammo well. There is nearly a half inch difference between 38 spcl and 357 max. Same problem as the other super magums, but...

The marketing problem with the 357 max is it only really makes sense in a few small markets. Places with straight wall hunting rifle regulations and some target shooting competitions. For pretty much everyone else, there are better cartridges.

In the hunting application one can use spitzer bullets in a single shot.

T. O'Heir · February 8, 2018, 12:10 PM

No .357 Maximum ammo listed at Midway. Only 1 brand(PCI) with 1 bullet weight at Graf's.
Starline brass at Graf's runs $46.39 per 100. $30.99 per 100 for Remington. Starline brass is 'On Clearance' at Midway. (So if you plan on having one made, buy all the brass you can find.)
The lack of ammo and brass only is the real marketing issue.
Makes the Maximum yet another answer to an unasked question that didn't meet the MBA marketing types' sales projections.
Hobie's blog post is 8 years old.

johnwilliamson062 · February 8, 2018, 12:20 PM

Quote:

The lack of ammo and brass only is the real marketing issue.

I disagree. there is no ammo and brass because there is no market for that ammo and brass just as there is no market for chambered firearms. Starline has the tooling now and will almost certainly make runs occasionally. Definitely unfriendly to anyone who does not reload.

COSteve · February 8, 2018, 01:37 PM

I handload and have 8 leverguns, 2 of which are 357mag and another is a 30-30, so I've contemplated the 357 Max a few times. However, while I'm intrigued with the idea as a concept, I just can't get past the fact that you need to increase the throw of the lever to near 100 deg and that is too long for comfortable cycling. I have both a Savage 99 and Winchester 88 and both have long lever throws which I feel are at the extreme of comfortable. Neither is as long as the throw needed to convert a Win 94 to 357 Max.

In addition, after you've spent the time, money, and effort to convert your levergun, you then have a custom caliber that requires custom handloaded ammo. As the brass is made, but not readily available, it's expensive to handload compared to the 357maf. Once you're done, you have handloader's dream (????????) a 357 Max that produces almost the performance of a standard 35 Remington.

Why bother when you can already get a NIB Marlin 336C already chambered in 35 Remington? Further, as the linked article states, re-barreling a 44 Mag levergun with one chambered in 357 Bain and Davis is also a lot simpler and probably gives you better performance.

Further, Buffalo Bore already makes Heavy 357mag ammo with powder blends the average handloader can't match. My hottest 158grn 357mag loads produce 1,979fps from my 24" levergun (33fps higher than from my 20" carbine) while Buffalo Bore advertises their Heavy Load 158grn produces 2,153fps from an 18.5" Marlin levergun. They also produce Heavy 30-30 and 35 Remington ammo.

Bottom line, the 357 Max is a great idea in a pistol, but going to the work and cost to rework the action on a levergun for it and then having a handload only caliber who's performance is not up to a standard caliber already chambered for a levergun, nor for that matter up to the performance of Buffalo Bore's custom blended Heavy 357mag loads, is a total loosing proposition.

Scorch · February 8, 2018, 03:22 PM

Two big issues with 357 Maximum in a lever gun:
* Long, straight cartridges do not feed well in most pistol-caliber lever actions since they have to come up at an angle and then make a sharp turn. 357 mags have the same issue to a lesser degree, imagine a case 1/4" longer. Remember, the Winchester 1892 was designed for bottleneck cartridges (44-40, 38-40, 32-20). The 1873 might work better since it feed straight in, but you would have to modify the action for the longer cartridge. Could you chamber a rifle-sized lever action for 357 Maximum? Sure, but at that point you might as well use a rifle cartridge.

* Supply of suitable .357" bullets for medium game hunting for 2,100-2,300 fps is non-existent. Most .357" bullets are designed for 38 Special and 357 mag out of handguns at velocities up to maybe 1,500 fps. You will have trouble getting those same bullets to perform well 30% faster out of a .357 Mag carbine, let alone going 50% faster. Supply and demand: no demand for bullets like that, so no supply. I used to have similar issues with my 357 Herrett years ago.

If you want a pistol-caliber lever action in 35 caliber, have your gunsmith build a 357/44 Bains-Davis. It's quick and easy.

jaysouth · February 8, 2018, 10:41 PM

I have a Handi rifle and a CVA Scout pistol reamed to .357MAX. It is a wonderful cartridge that is a solid 200 yard cartridge on whitetails and hogs. It delivers .35 Remington ballistics with about half the recoil. At the range, the bragging rights are impressive.

Having said that, if I wanted a lever action, I would get a marlin in .35 Remington. It delivers slightly better ballistics than a MAX and the ammo is not in every store, but it is available.

The marlin does not have the bragging rights of the MAX and is not as accurate, but for hunting, it is a time tested cartridge in deer, hogs and black bear.

Two weeks ago, midway was closing out 357 Rem MAX brass for $21 per hundred. I now have a lifetime supply. My best jacketed bullet is the 180 Hornady XTP HP and my best cast bullet is the Ranch Dog 190 gr. FP.

saleen322 · February 8, 2018, 11:20 PM

I have a Handi rifle, contender, and revolver in 357 SM/Max. I never had problems getting brass and the best bullet I found for accuracy and hunting is a 210 gas check that I cast myself. I have no experience with a lever action 357 SM but I do have a 375 Winchester that feeds that straight wall cartridge very well for what it is worth. Good luck with your project.

fourbore · February 9, 2018, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Makes the Maximum yet another answer to an unasked question that didn't meet the MBA marketing types' sales projections.

Not true! There is a major resurgence in 357 max because of shotgun only states and regions that now allow the 357Max. According to MGM this is the most popular encore barrel they sell.

I am not interested in one. Just saying it does have a purpose and a following. There are 180 grain factory loads if you own the gun you can find them or load them. It is not a big deal for a serious gun person.

FWIW, I would take the 44mag in this space. I have no use for any 357mag or 357max. I understand those who do.

For pure gun nut reasons, I would consider a ruger blackhawk. Ahhhh, dont know - maybe.

johnwilliamson062 · February 9, 2018, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Not true! There is a major resurgence in 357 max because of shotgun only states and regions that now allow the 357Max. According to MGM this is the most popular encore barrel they sell.

Quote:

FWIW, I would take the 44mag in this space. I have no use for any 357mag or 357max. I understand those who do.

Exactly what and why I have one. The 45/70 and 44 mag are also popular, but in my state most shooting is within 200 yards. At that range the 357 max does the job with considerably less felt recoil out of an encore.

Salmoneye · February 9, 2018, 12:29 PM

The Marlin 336 was at one time chambered in .44 Mag...

I assume that the longer .357 Max could be retrofitted to a rebarreled 336 length receiver if someone was inclined to invest the time and money...

Scorch · February 9, 2018, 03:57 PM

Quote:

I assume that the longer .357 Max could be retrofitted to a rebarreled 336 length receiver if someone was inclined to invest the time and money...

Yes, we have built two for customers, but if we take on any more it is going to be way more expensive. Problem is with the long, narrow cartridges and trying to keep it in the carrier when the lever is cycled.

COSteve · February 9, 2018, 04:05 PM

Don't misunderstand my post # 7 above to imply that I don't think the idea of a 357 Max in a levergun would be interesting, I still think it would. My whole issue is the cost all the work to convert a levergun to shoot it vice the advantages of it. I get that there are states that require straight walled cartridges for hunting and that drives a desire for the 357 Max. In that situation the added effort may very well be worth the result. However, as a hunting platform in a state that doesn't restrict it, the 35 Remington is a better choice.

On the other hand, as a project gun, it might be fun. However, I understand that many don't have the tools, the time, or the technical ability to tackle a project like this which is why it really is a qualified gunsmith project with the limited platforms available you need to start with.

That doesn't mean that it couldn't be a nice performing plinking, general shooting, or small game platform understanding that, as Scorch accurately stated, that suitable bullets for it's 200grn velocities of about 2,000fps velocities aren't currently available. (Handloads.com shows a single rifle load with a 200grn bullet producing 1,950fps out of a 22" barrel.)

So, if I could easily and affordably convert my 24" Rossi 357mag levergun with the tang and globe sight set without extending the lever ark, even if it only worked with the 357 Max, I think it would be a cool platform. Not necessarily as a hunting gun, but I'd think it would be cool to see how far I could extend the range I shoot it at. Currently, I use it to shoot at steel plates at 300yds. In addition, as I handload 357mag already, all I'd need is brass so no big deal as a just for grins project. Or better still, if Rossi offered one of their M92 in 357 Max, I'd buy a 24" version and use it as I mention above. Again, I handload and the 357 Max would be a snap.

However, no one makes a levergun in 357 Max at an affordable price as a stocked item. Yes, you can talk a gunsmith into modifying one but at a pretty large cost. So, my objection to the idea isn't because of the rd itself, but rather the reward (or lack thereof) doesn't match the effort and cost to convert an existing levergun platform to shoot it.

Sevens · February 9, 2018, 04:14 PM

I wonder if anyone has reamed the Ruger 77/357 to accept the .357 Max? No possible way that it would fit the magazine or feed, but as a single load proposition? The rifle is a sturdy platform, seems like it would be a simple alteration and wouldn't radically change the rifle itself.

NoSecondBest · February 9, 2018, 06:50 PM

Just buy and Encore and an MGM barrel in .357max. Shoots great and components are all over the place. Most of the fun is just load development.

Guv · February 9, 2018, 11:16 PM

I have had a 10" Contender with a 2x Redfield scope for years.
I load a Speer 180gr Hot Core designed for the 35 Rem. Awesome penetration and 3 shot 1" groups at 50 yds.
Sweet gun with much less recoil than my 10" 44mag TC.
Straight case lever guns with longer cartridge dimensions work very well. 45-70, 444, 375, 38-55 all feed well, I would think a Max would also.
Great idea if not for the 35 Rem.

briandg · February 11, 2018, 11:23 AM

maybe you could consider a .35 remington. the max gets about 1600, the rem gets around 2000, both with 200 gr.

Obviously, I don't know if you will find a rifle that you want in that caliber, or ammo, but if you wanted to you could also download it to the maximum levels.

FrankenMauser · February 11, 2018, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Yes, we have built two for customers, but if we take on any more it is going to be way more expensive. Problem is with the long, narrow cartridges and trying to keep it in the carrier when the lever is cycled.

Use an 444 or 1895 with the "cartridge leveler" carrier/lifter system -- also known as "the flipper" to Marlin guys.
Modify a 336 .30-30 carrier to accept the flipper, and it should run better than with just timing changes.

briandg · February 12, 2018, 04:02 AM

Maybe that's why a cartridge that has no real similarity to other base cartridges has never been released. There's a reason why the 30-06 and the .308 have been necked up and down, it's because they are universal. Change the bore size and reshape the chamber. I guess that it's a little harder for a lever rifle to change everything.

jrumsey · February 17, 2018, 01:04 PM

Have a G2 contender 20" barrel and also a Encore 18" chambered in the 357 Maximum by MGM. The load I use for deer here in southern Michigan gives me 2120 FPS. using the Speer 180 grain Hot Core bullet #2435. This is out of the 18" Encore barrel and it works great for me.

I sure would like to see a lever gun available for this cartridge, but if not the single shots work fine too. It leaves a blood trail a blind man could follow, with mild recoil and plenty of bullets to choose from.

I hunt the hard woods so it is a good fit as far as range too.

Guv · February 18, 2018, 04:01 PM

35 Rem bullets are great out of a single shot. Their extra overall length should be something to consider with a lever action conversion.

February 8, 2018, 08:30 AM	#1
ammo.crafter Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2006 Location: The Keystone State Posts: 1,970	.357 Maximum Has anyone found a lever action rifle in .357 Maximum? __________________ "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading". --Thomas Jefferson

February 8, 2018, 09:20 AM	#3
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,249	Read This! __________________ NRA Life Member

February 8, 2018, 10:15 AM	#4
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	I have asked Big Horn Armory if they intend to pursue said project several times. Not recently though. Last time I asked the reply was an emphatic 'NO!' that led me to believe they had been working one and it frustrated them to the point of throwing in the towel. Consider how some lever guns won't cycle all factory ammo well. There is nearly a half inch difference between 38 spcl and 357 max. Same problem as the other super magums, but... The marketing problem with the 357 max is it only really makes sense in a few small markets. Places with straight wall hunting rifle regulations and some target shooting competitions. For pretty much everyone else, there are better cartridges. In the hunting application one can use spitzer bullets in a single shot. Last edited by johnwilliamson062; February 8, 2018 at 10:24 AM.

February 8, 2018, 12:10 PM	#5
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	No .357 Maximum ammo listed at Midway. Only 1 brand(PCI) with 1 bullet weight at Graf's. Starline brass at Graf's runs $46.39 per 100. $30.99 per 100 for Remington. Starline brass is 'On Clearance' at Midway. (So if you plan on having one made, buy all the brass you can find.) The lack of ammo and brass only is the real marketing issue. Makes the Maximum yet another answer to an unasked question that didn't meet the MBA marketing types' sales projections. Hobie's blog post is 8 years old. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

February 8, 2018, 03:22 PM	#8
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Two big issues with 357 Maximum in a lever gun: * Long, straight cartridges do not feed well in most pistol-caliber lever actions since they have to come up at an angle and then make a sharp turn. 357 mags have the same issue to a lesser degree, imagine a case 1/4" longer. Remember, the Winchester 1892 was designed for bottleneck cartridges (44-40, 38-40, 32-20). The 1873 might work better since it feed straight in, but you would have to modify the action for the longer cartridge. Could you chamber a rifle-sized lever action for 357 Maximum? Sure, but at that point you might as well use a rifle cartridge. * Supply of suitable .357" bullets for medium game hunting for 2,100-2,300 fps is non-existent. Most .357" bullets are designed for 38 Special and 357 mag out of handguns at velocities up to maybe 1,500 fps. You will have trouble getting those same bullets to perform well 30% faster out of a .357 Mag carbine, let alone going 50% faster. Supply and demand: no demand for bullets like that, so no supply. I used to have similar issues with my 357 Herrett years ago. If you want a pistol-caliber lever action in 35 caliber, have your gunsmith build a 357/44 Bains-Davis. It's quick and easy. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

February 8, 2018, 08:38 AM	#2
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	None that are a commercially sold item. By lever gun I assume you mean a repeater, not a single shot such as a Low Wall or Sharps.

February 8, 2018, 01:37 PM	#7
COSteve Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2009 Posts: 1,344	I handload and have 8 leverguns, 2 of which are 357mag and another is a 30-30, so I've contemplated the 357 Max a few times. However, while I'm intrigued with the idea as a concept, I just can't get past the fact that you need to increase the throw of the lever to near 100 deg and that is too long for comfortable cycling. I have both a Savage 99 and Winchester 88 and both have long lever throws which I feel are at the extreme of comfortable. Neither is as long as the throw needed to convert a Win 94 to 357 Max. In addition, after you've spent the time, money, and effort to convert your levergun, you then have a custom caliber that requires custom handloaded ammo. As the brass is made, but not readily available, it's expensive to handload compared to the 357maf. Once you're done, you have handloader's dream (????????) a 357 Max that produces almost the performance of a standard 35 Remington. Why bother when you can already get a NIB Marlin 336C already chambered in 35 Remington? Further, as the linked article states, re-barreling a 44 Mag levergun with one chambered in 357 Bain and Davis is also a lot simpler and probably gives you better performance. Further, Buffalo Bore already makes Heavy 357mag ammo with powder blends the average handloader can't match. My hottest 158grn 357mag loads produce 1,979fps from my 24" levergun (33fps higher than from my 20" carbine) while Buffalo Bore advertises their Heavy Load 158grn produces 2,153fps from an 18.5" Marlin levergun. They also produce Heavy 30-30 and 35 Remington ammo. Bottom line, the 357 Max is a great idea in a pistol, but going to the work and cost to rework the action on a levergun for it and then having a handload only caliber who's performance is not up to a standard caliber already chambered for a levergun, nor for that matter up to the performance of Buffalo Bore's custom blended Heavy 357mag loads, is a total loosing proposition.

February 8, 2018, 10:41 PM	#9
jaysouth Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2001 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 787	I have a Handi rifle and a CVA Scout pistol reamed to .357MAX. It is a wonderful cartridge that is a solid 200 yard cartridge on whitetails and hogs. It delivers .35 Remington ballistics with about half the recoil. At the range, the bragging rights are impressive. Having said that, if I wanted a lever action, I would get a marlin in .35 Remington. It delivers slightly better ballistics than a MAX and the ammo is not in every store, but it is available. The marlin does not have the bragging rights of the MAX and is not as accurate, but for hunting, it is a time tested cartridge in deer, hogs and black bear. Two weeks ago, midway was closing out 357 Rem MAX brass for $21 per hundred. I now have a lifetime supply. My best jacketed bullet is the 180 Hornady XTP HP and my best cast bullet is the Ranch Dog 190 gr. FP.

February 8, 2018, 11:20 PM	#10
saleen322 Senior Member Join Date: March 8, 2010 Posts: 778	I have a Handi rifle, contender, and revolver in 357 SM/Max. I never had problems getting brass and the best bullet I found for accuracy and hunting is a 210 gas check that I cast myself. I have no experience with a lever action 357 SM but I do have a 375 Winchester that feeds that straight wall cartridge very well for what it is worth. Good luck with your project.

February 9, 2018, 12:29 PM	#13
Salmoneye Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 2,076	The Marlin 336 was at one time chambered in .44 Mag... I assume that the longer .357 Max could be retrofitted to a rebarreled 336 length receiver if someone was inclined to invest the time and money...

February 9, 2018, 04:05 PM	#15
COSteve Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2009 Posts: 1,344	Don't misunderstand my post # 7 above to imply that I don't think the idea of a 357 Max in a levergun would be interesting, I still think it would. My whole issue is the cost all the work to convert a levergun to shoot it vice the advantages of it. I get that there are states that require straight walled cartridges for hunting and that drives a desire for the 357 Max. In that situation the added effort may very well be worth the result. However, as a hunting platform in a state that doesn't restrict it, the 35 Remington is a better choice. On the other hand, as a project gun, it might be fun. However, I understand that many don't have the tools, the time, or the technical ability to tackle a project like this which is why it really is a qualified gunsmith project with the limited platforms available you need to start with. That doesn't mean that it couldn't be a nice performing plinking, general shooting, or small game platform understanding that, as Scorch accurately stated, that suitable bullets for it's 200grn velocities of about 2,000fps velocities aren't currently available. (Handloads.com shows a single rifle load with a 200grn bullet producing 1,950fps out of a 22" barrel.) So, if I could easily and affordably convert my 24" Rossi 357mag levergun with the tang and globe sight set without extending the lever ark, even if it only worked with the 357 Max, I think it would be a cool platform. Not necessarily as a hunting gun, but I'd think it would be cool to see how far I could extend the range I shoot it at. Currently, I use it to shoot at steel plates at 300yds. In addition, as I handload 357mag already, all I'd need is brass so no big deal as a just for grins project. Or better still, if Rossi offered one of their M92 in 357 Max, I'd buy a 24" version and use it as I mention above. Again, I handload and the 357 Max would be a snap. However, no one makes a levergun in 357 Max at an affordable price as a stocked item. Yes, you can talk a gunsmith into modifying one but at a pretty large cost. So, my objection to the idea isn't because of the rd itself, but rather the reward (or lack thereof) doesn't match the effort and cost to convert an existing levergun platform to shoot it.

February 9, 2018, 04:14 PM	#16
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	I wonder if anyone has reamed the Ruger 77/357 to accept the .357 Max? No possible way that it would fit the magazine or feed, but as a single load proposition? The rifle is a sturdy platform, seems like it would be a simple alteration and wouldn't radically change the rifle itself. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

February 9, 2018, 06:50 PM	#17
NoSecondBest Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2009 Location: Western New York Posts: 2,736	Just buy and Encore and an MGM barrel in .357max. Shoots great and components are all over the place. Most of the fun is just load development.

February 9, 2018, 11:16 PM	#18
Guv Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2012 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,126	I have had a 10" Contender with a 2x Redfield scope for years. I load a Speer 180gr Hot Core designed for the 35 Rem. Awesome penetration and 3 shot 1" groups at 50 yds. Sweet gun with much less recoil than my 10" 44mag TC. Straight case lever guns with longer cartridge dimensions work very well. 45-70, 444, 375, 38-55 all feed well, I would think a Max would also. Great idea if not for the 35 Rem. __________________ Walnut and Gloss Blue, mostly!

February 11, 2018, 11:23 AM	#19
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	maybe you could consider a .35 remington. the max gets about 1600, the rem gets around 2000, both with 200 gr. Obviously, I don't know if you will find a rifle that you want in that caliber, or ammo, but if you wanted to you could also download it to the maximum levels. __________________ None.

February 12, 2018, 04:02 AM	#21
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	Maybe that's why a cartridge that has no real similarity to other base cartridges has never been released. There's a reason why the 30-06 and the .308 have been necked up and down, it's because they are universal. Change the bore size and reshape the chamber. I guess that it's a little harder for a lever rifle to change everything. __________________ None.

February 17, 2018, 01:04 PM	#22
jrumsey Junior Member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 10	Have a G2 contender 20" barrel and also a Encore 18" chambered in the 357 Maximum by MGM. The load I use for deer here in southern Michigan gives me 2120 FPS. using the Speer 180 grain Hot Core bullet #2435. This is out of the 18" Encore barrel and it works great for me. I sure would like to see a lever gun available for this cartridge, but if not the single shots work fine too. It leaves a blood trail a blind man could follow, with mild recoil and plenty of bullets to choose from. I hunt the hard woods so it is a good fit as far as range too. Last edited by jrumsey; February 17, 2018 at 07:28 PM.

February 18, 2018, 04:01 PM	#23
Guv Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2012 Location: South Texas Posts: 2,126	35 Rem bullets are great out of a single shot. Their extra overall length should be something to consider with a lever action conversion. __________________ Walnut and Gloss Blue, mostly!