357 load in 38 shells - Page 2

salvadore · February 5, 2014, 09:34 PM

Here's the deal, if everyone is a safety first drone then Magellan wouldn't have sailed around the world..ok he didn't quite make it, we wouldn't have gone to the moon, Doolittle wouldn't have a raid, no 38/44s, no 44 spec experiments no casull experiments etc. I worked for a federal contractor whose primary goal was safety first, nothing ever got done and nobody was particularly safe. I have nothing against safety but if you can't keep your .357 pressure loads in 38 cases without it migrating to your 1950s model 36 that may be good for the gene pool, maybe we need a safety first federal program. I don't mean to rant but most of us are intelligent males and the rest of us are intelligent females... ever notice the different pronunciation between females and tamales? I digress.

I once shot a double load in a .45 acp, a friends reloads, I no longer shoot others or let other people shoot my reloads. I can't double charge my high octane 38 cases but it is possible to double charge my regular 38s.

OK, I'm done and I already feel better, think I'll put together some hi octane 32/20 reloads for my Marlin 94.

Nick_C_S · February 5, 2014, 09:39 PM

^^ You had me at "federal program." ^^

Fair enough. Point made.

**44 AMP** · February 7, 2014, 02:51 AM

I suppose I am fortunate enough to have enough .357 brass, and to not have to patronize a range that steals my property. I'm fine with waiting for the range to go cold, but I will have my cases back, thank you. Some of the guns I have are essentially wildcats, and those cases, considering my time & effort making them are more than worth retrieving. A matter of principle, for me.

I have a Coonan, one of the old ones, a Model A. I don't shoot it much, but I haven't noticed it throwing brass ahead of the line very often. I have a Sig that will do it regularly, with hot loads.

I do believe in the principle of graduated risk. I also believe in not courting disaster. And I believe we each have the right to decide which is which. If I think something is a poor idea, I'll tell you, and why. If it doesn't apply to your situation, that's fine. If it does, you might want to take a look at what you do, and why.

Marking the cases of any load that has some ..restrictions is a very good idea.
I put my "rifle only" .357 loads in brass cases, for easy identification. Over the years I'm had more than one incident of ammo getting "loose" and mixed together, so some way of easy, positive ID is a good idea.

rebs · February 7, 2014, 07:11 AM

IMHO it is not a good idea to load 357 mag loads in 38 cases if for no other reason than one of those loads ending up being accidentally fired in a 38 spl gun. I have loaded 38 loads in 357 cases but not 357 loads in 38 cases.

Hal · February 7, 2014, 09:09 AM

Quote:

I have a load of .38 Spec. once or twice fired shells. Mostly I shoot .38's at the range, but I always like to throw in some 357's, just because I like to shoot them.

Why waste perfectly good .38spl brass?

Everything else aside, you only get so many resizings out of a case.

Standard level .38spl brass lasts a long, long, long time.

Running near magnum level loads just stretches the brass out early.

If you want to shoot some .357's, just pick up some unprimed brass.

Bezoar · February 7, 2014, 09:25 PM

you cant always get brass. especially magnum brass.

back in the early days of the 357, they created a 158 grain bullet with two crimping grooves. use the top groove and you can make a regular length 38 special or 357 using the top crimp.
Use teh bottom crimp in a 38 special case and it gives you the internal case capacity of a 357. and wont fit in a 38 special.

**44 AMP** · February 8, 2014, 03:03 AM

Quote:

you cant always get brass. especially magnum brass.

Really?
The .38 SPL and .357 Mag are probably the two most popular revolver rounds on the planet, and you can't get brass?

Is it really that bad?

I haven't been looking for common brass in ages. Literally, years. But even with all the shortages in ammo I seem to see them lots of places. Try finding brass for a .221 Fireball, or a .45 Win mag. That's a challenge!

Hal · February 8, 2014, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Is it really that bad?

No....

I checked before I posted up above.

Unprimed .357 brass is out there and easy to find.
I found a bunch of links for it, checked a few, and all listed as in stock.

Peter M. Eick · February 8, 2014, 05:34 PM

Modern 357 Magnum power levels are roughly equal to the old 38/44 High Speed round from the pre 1960's that was in a 38 special casing.

Do some searches for 38/44 reloads and work accordingly. I routinely load my 38/44's to 1150-1200 FPS with 158's which is about what modern factory 357 Magnum ammo does out of my Python.

If you take reasonably cautions to keep the 38/44's out of your 38 special's life is good. If you don't you may regret ever learning about the 38/44's. I only have 3 38 specials so I crank out special ammo for my colts and then go hog wild with my 38/44s.

rabbit hunter · February 8, 2014, 08:31 PM

I have no problem loading 38 Special cases with 6.0 grs of Unique behind a 158 gr Keith type bullet and shooting them in my 357 revolver. I do mark the box "357 loads in 38 cases". Hopefully I will not have any on hand when I croak!

salvadore · February 9, 2014, 03:02 AM

Quote:

back in the early days of the 357, they created a 158 grain bullet with two crimping grooves. use the top groove and you can make a regular length 38 special or 357 using the top crimp.
Use teh bottom crimp in a 38 special case and it gives you the internal case capacity of a 357. and wont fit in a 38 special.

Actually Ray Thompson's design was like twenty years after the .357 was introduced, I'll check in the morning but I'm pretty sure they chamber in my Colt Marshal (.38 spec.) because I tested for group after acquiring it. That was with the *gasp shudder* Skeeter load. I currently load a .38 pressure load using Keith's bullet rather than file the front sight down. It shot low with the lighter bullet. The photo below is a soft alloy Thompson HP bullet loaded to .38 pressures shot into jugs of water from my Colt Cobra.

BTW, I also use Keith's load in my .44Specs. Egad, I'm a Wildman, next thing you know I'll be crossing the street without going to the corner and following the stop light's instructions.

I do admit to firing much less hi octane loads, no matter what case is used, because I got old and it friggin hurts.

Peter M. Eick · February 9, 2014, 10:43 AM

Boy do I understand your last line. This is why I gave up on anything over a 357 Maximum. I just can't take the pounding in the hands anymore. And the effort to clean the gun after only a few hundred or even 50 rounds is not worth it.

Thus the 38/44 has become my favorite round. More than a 38, less than a real 357 Magnum.

fshfindr · February 9, 2014, 11:20 AM

More food for thought.

Woodslab · March 1, 2014, 05:11 PM

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

The guns used for these loads are Taurus ss 608 6" ported and Henry 20" lever

357 mag only load!

Recipe

38 special case
125 grain FMJ
Small pistol primer
18.4 grns w296.
6" revolver 1330 f/s. 20" Henry 1940 f/s
Case and primers looked fine.

38 special case
125 grain FMJ
Small pistol primer
15.3 grns Alliant 2400
6" revolver 1315 f/s
Case and primer looked fine

The lobber
357 mag case
125 grain lead fn
2.2 grns titegroup. Have loaded down to 1.9 and had some squibs
6" revolver no chrono would say under 200 f/s

I take these "lobber" rounds to the range for a good laugh. I aim 4 ft high @ 50 ft. They bounce off wood. Do not use these for hunting bear

February 5, 2014, 09:39 PM	#27
Nick_C_S Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2013 Location: Idaho Posts: 5,522	^^ You had me at "federal program." ^^ Fair enough. Point made. __________________ Gun control laws benefit only criminals and politicians - but then, I repeat myself. Life Member, National Rifle Association

February 7, 2014, 02:51 AM	#28
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,817	I suppose I am fortunate enough to have enough .357 brass, and to not have to patronize a range that steals my property. I'm fine with waiting for the range to go cold, but I will have my cases back, thank you. Some of the guns I have are essentially wildcats, and those cases, considering my time & effort making them are more than worth retrieving. A matter of principle, for me. I have a Coonan, one of the old ones, a Model A. I don't shoot it much, but I haven't noticed it throwing brass ahead of the line very often. I have a Sig that will do it regularly, with hot loads. I do believe in the principle of graduated risk. I also believe in not courting disaster. And I believe we each have the right to decide which is which. If I think something is a poor idea, I'll tell you, and why. If it doesn't apply to your situation, that's fine. If it does, you might want to take a look at what you do, and why. Marking the cases of any load that has some ..restrictions is a very good idea. I put my "rifle only" .357 loads in brass cases, for easy identification. Over the years I'm had more than one incident of ammo getting "loose" and mixed together, so some way of easy, positive ID is a good idea. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

February 8, 2014, 05:34 PM	#34
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	Modern 357 Magnum power levels are roughly equal to the old 38/44 High Speed round from the pre 1960's that was in a 38 special casing. Do some searches for 38/44 reloads and work accordingly. I routinely load my 38/44's to 1150-1200 FPS with 158's which is about what modern factory 357 Magnum ammo does out of my Python. If you take reasonably cautions to keep the 38/44's out of your 38 special's life is good. If you don't you may regret ever learning about the 38/44's. I only have 3 38 specials so I crank out special ammo for my colts and then go hog wild with my 38/44s. __________________ 10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!

February 8, 2014, 08:31 PM	#35
rabbit hunter Member Join Date: April 7, 2011 Location: Near Las Vegas Posts: 30	357 loads in 38 Special I have no problem loading 38 Special cases with 6.0 grs of Unique behind a 158 gr Keith type bullet and shooting them in my 357 revolver. I do mark the box "357 loads in 38 cases". Hopefully I will not have any on hand when I croak!

February 9, 2014, 10:43 AM	#37
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	Boy do I understand your last line. This is why I gave up on anything over a 357 Maximum. I just can't take the pounding in the hands anymore. And the effort to clean the gun after only a few hundred or even 50 rounds is not worth it. Thus the 38/44 has become my favorite round. More than a 38, less than a real 357 Magnum. __________________ 10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!

February 5, 2014, 09:34 PM	#26
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	Here's the deal, if everyone is a safety first drone then Magellan wouldn't have sailed around the world..ok he didn't quite make it, we wouldn't have gone to the moon, Doolittle wouldn't have a raid, no 38/44s, no 44 spec experiments no casull experiments etc. I worked for a federal contractor whose primary goal was safety first, nothing ever got done and nobody was particularly safe. I have nothing against safety but if you can't keep your .357 pressure loads in 38 cases without it migrating to your 1950s model 36 that may be good for the gene pool, maybe we need a safety first federal program. I don't mean to rant but most of us are intelligent males and the rest of us are intelligent females... ever notice the different pronunciation between females and tamales? I digress. I once shot a double load in a .45 acp, a friends reloads, I no longer shoot others or let other people shoot my reloads. I can't double charge my high octane 38 cases but it is possible to double charge my regular 38s. OK, I'm done and I already feel better, think I'll put together some hi octane 32/20 reloads for my Marlin 94.

February 7, 2014, 07:11 AM	#29
rebs Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2012 Posts: 3,881	IMHO it is not a good idea to load 357 mag loads in 38 cases if for no other reason than one of those loads ending up being accidentally fired in a 38 spl gun. I have loaded 38 loads in 357 cases but not 357 loads in 38 cases.

February 7, 2014, 09:25 PM	#31
Bezoar Junior member Join Date: October 19, 2004 Location: michigan Posts: 578	you cant always get brass. especially magnum brass. back in the early days of the 357, they created a 158 grain bullet with two crimping grooves. use the top groove and you can make a regular length 38 special or 357 using the top crimp. Use teh bottom crimp in a 38 special case and it gives you the internal case capacity of a 357. and wont fit in a 38 special.

February 9, 2014, 11:20 AM	#38
fshfindr Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2013 Location: South Jersey Posts: 188	More food for thought. __________________ Richard L.

March 1, 2014, 05:11 PM	#39
Woodslab Member Join Date: February 25, 2014 Location: eastern nc Posts: 81	CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information. The guns used for these loads are Taurus ss 608 6" ported and Henry 20" lever 357 mag only load! Recipe 38 special case 125 grain FMJ Small pistol primer 18.4 grns w296. 6" revolver 1330 f/s. 20" Henry 1940 f/s Case and primers looked fine. 38 special case 125 grain FMJ Small pistol primer 15.3 grns Alliant 2400 6" revolver 1315 f/s Case and primer looked fine The lobber 357 mag case 125 grain lead fn 2.2 grns titegroup. Have loaded down to 1.9 and had some squibs 6" revolver no chrono would say under 200 f/s I take these "lobber" rounds to the range for a good laugh. I aim 4 ft high @ 50 ft. They bounce off wood. Do not use these for hunting bear