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Old September 27, 2018, 04:51 PM   #26
Roamin_Wade
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To all the folks that are saying that the 30 US is what I've got, that's not correct. It says "30 USA" that's different. I'm wondering if this was foreign made or something like that. Does anyone's reference material say anything about it being called a 30 USA specifically?
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Old September 27, 2018, 05:55 PM   #27
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QUOTE] To all the folks that are saying that the 30 US is what I've got, that's not correct. It says "30 USA" that's different. [/QUOTE]

Yes, i have some REM-UMC rounds clearly marked 30 USA.

i'm an ammunition collector who gave it up years ago. Cartridges Of The World should taken with a grain of salt. Every edition i've seen contains errors.

Example: The 8th Addition, Revised and Expanded shows a rimmed cartridge clearly marked .30 U. S. Army discussed under the heading of 30-03 Springfield/30-03 Government.
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Old September 28, 2018, 01:13 AM   #28
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Quote:
"But here's a challenge for you: you find a rifle marked .30 Government that a professional smith will do a chamber cast on and identify as .30-40 Krag and I'll eat my words."

Why, when .30-40 Krag cartridges marked .30 USG (see my attached photo above) were manufactured by Winchester?
That is interesting, Mike. And it is the type of evidence that I would consider valid, not "so and so said". I guess I will have to concede that I still have things to learn.
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Old September 28, 2018, 05:44 AM   #29
Mike Irwin
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"To all the folks that are saying that the 30 US is what I've got, that's not correct. It says "30 USA" that's different. I'm wondering if this was foreign made or something like that. Does anyone's reference material say anything about it being called a 30 USA specifically?"


Roamin, please go back and read my posts. I've answered your question.

Your cartridge is a .30-40 Krag manufactured in the United States by Remington-UMC.

.30 USA was a standard headstamp used by Remington for the .30-40 Krag for many years.

Your round was made the Remington-UMC ammunition plant in Bridgeport, Connecticut.

Union Metallic Cartridge Company was established in Bridgeport in 1867 and manufactured there until 1912, when Remington took controlling interest in the company.

After 1912 and until 1970, REM-UMC headstamped ammunition was manufactured in the exact same plant in Bridgeport.

I posted at least one picture of one with the exact same headstamp.


As others have said, Cartridges of the World is a nice introductory survey, but it is not authoritative.

It is riddled with errors (most minor, some really -CENSORED--CENSORED--CENSORED-?!!!?) in all editions.


When you are dealing with old cartridges you MUST keep one very important point in mind -- headstamps are FLUID. Not every manufacturer used the same designation for the same round, and identifying headstamps can change over the years.

Over the years I have seen the following commercial headstamps on .30-40 Krag cartridges:

.30 USA
.30 US Army
.30 Army
.30-40
.30-40 Krag
.30 Krag
.30 USG
.30 US Gov.

ALL of those headstamps, and very likely more, have been used by companies over the years to identify the SAME cartridge -- the .30-40 Krag.


Simply put, you have a common, run of the mill cartridge with a common, run of the mill headstamp that Remington stamped on MILLIONS of .30-40 Krag cases over the years.
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Old September 28, 2018, 07:18 AM   #30
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Turdy Gommint ... 220gn RN @ 2100fps.

Good round then, good round now. Man or beast, it puts 'em down.

As that demi-god of riflery, Jeff Cooper, once said: 'That old Krag hit really hard.'
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Old September 28, 2018, 07:52 AM   #31
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Last military 30/40 I bought was Frankfort Arsenal 1905. Several thousand rounds that came in cloth bandoleers , so marked. I'm going to dig some out and check head stamp.
Ammo looked clean but was degraded from inside. Ended up salvaging bullets. I think I
have a box of "30/06" labeled Winchester 30 Army. I don't remember where I saw it but the
30/06 was suppose to have been changed 7 times between origin and 1936. This is the
version that case was shortened for M1 rifle and is standard today.
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Old September 28, 2018, 07:58 AM   #32
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"I'm going to dig some out and check head stamp."

If it's all military it will have an FA at the top, the F in a 10 o'clock position and the A in a 2 o'clock.

Below the primer it will have a 1 or 2 digit code at 8 o'clock to designate month of manufacture, and at 4 o'oclock two digits to designate year of manufacture (04 for 1904, 05 for 1905, etc.)

At some point, not sure exactly when, Frankford stopped stamping the month manufacture date. It may have been in the 1930s when the month was dropped.
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Old September 28, 2018, 08:01 AM   #33
Mike Irwin
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"I don't remember where I saw it but the
30/06 was suppose to have been changed 7 times between origin and 1936. This is the
version that case was shortened for M1 rifle and is standard today."

Say what? Dimensionally the .30-06 case was established in 1906 with its adoption and case dimensions were never changed after that.

Projectiles were, but not the case itself.
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Old September 28, 2018, 11:37 AM   #34
Mike Irwin
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I've been looking at old Winchester advertisements and secondary advertising to see if I could find how the various cartridges talked about in this thread have been referenced...

Here's one from post 1906 that references the .30-40 as the .30 US Army...




So far no joy in finding anything that would indicate that the .30-40 rifles were ever marked .30 Government or a variation thereof...

Which begs the question... why did Winchester us a totally different nomenclature on the cartridges?
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Old April 14, 2022, 05:30 PM   #35
JustJake
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The 30-40 Krag is my favorite “Old School” Mil-cartridge.

I like the 45-70 too, but I take an old Krag carbine to deer camp and fill a tag or two every season.
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Old April 17, 2022, 02:19 PM   #36
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Spoke with a friend, the 1907 Winchester catalogue does not have .30-40 Krag, it has .30 Army. (also lists .30 Govt -03 and -06).

He had a pre-WWI 1895 carbine and it was marked .30 Army. And he remembers a late 20s made (custom grade) 1895 rifle a friend of his had being marked .30-40.

Can't verify that with my available references, but it seems likely. Winchester switched from .30 WCF to .30-30 in the later 20s so they MIGHT have changed the barrel marking of the .30 Army to .30-40 about that time.
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