percussion revolver bullets

Newton24b · April 14, 2011, 01:52 AM

the 44 armies can take a 180-200 grain conical with minor pain to the user in regards to loading it.

from the limited energy figures ive seen, the 45 acp can get a 185 grain hp-swc to expand at roughly the same velocity the bp revolver can reach. so am i somewhat crazy to be wondering how well the 45 acp hp-swc could work in a bp cylinder?

Bootsie · April 14, 2011, 03:27 AM

You might experience problems to load the .451/.452 dia .45 ACP bullets into the chambers of most 1860 clones because they have no (guiding) heel.
Bootsie

Hawg · April 14, 2011, 05:40 AM

Lee conicals. No pain.

B.L.E. · April 14, 2011, 05:50 AM

I attempted to us some Hornady swaged lead .45 acp bullets that I happened to have in my ROA but they were too small to seat in the chambers, i.e. they just dropped in, and back out.

220 grain .45 Maxie Balls that I have a Lymann bullet mold for seat nicely in a ROA chamber but only allow room for about 25 grains of powder, so it's not a useful hunting bullet. Great for just plinking though, those deep grease grooves filled with grease keeps the barrel one-shot dirty even after multiple cylinders have been shot through it without wiping the barrel, although that light 25 grain powder charge helps in that regard also.

ZVP · April 15, 2011, 06:34 PM

I bought some .457 and .380 balls to try in my revolvers.
I'd had good luck shooting .454 balls in my .44 instead of the .451's and they shot very accurately so I figured why not go a little bigger? I noticed that these really press hard into the chambers but once in a bit they seem to shoot accurately! I load with Patches usualy but with the .457's I use Criswco.
Is there that much actual weight gain by going up a couple thousandths?
For the .36 I read that going up to .3380 will aid both in the chamber gas seal plus in the barrel catching the rifling. I have yet to try the .380's but am looking forward to trying them for accuracy.
I notice that I have one chamber on my Uberti which with a .375 ball will not hold the ball tight. I assumed this is slightly oversized and hoped the .380 Ball will take up on this problem?
What weights do the .454 and .457 weigh?
How bout a .380?
ZVP

B.L.E. · April 15, 2011, 07:30 PM

Quote:

What weights do the .454 and .457 weigh?
How bout a .380?

.454 = 141 grains
.457 = 143.5 grains
.380 = 82.5 grains

You can quickly calculate the weight of any size pure lead ball by cubing the diameter in inches and then multiplying the answer by 1503 to get an answer in grains.

Example, how much does a .375 lead roundball weigh?

.375 X .375 X .375 = .052734375

.052734375 X 1503 = 79.25

There! A .375 diameter lead ball weighs 'bout 79 grains.

ZVP · April 15, 2011, 07:48 PM

B.L.E.
Thanks! Math is my weakest subject but that one is simple!
I guess the small weight gain won't result in much of a M/E change. To get that you'd likely need to shoot conicals. I have read of some pretty impressive .44 caliber energies with Conicals. Civil war soilders seemed to swear by them.
Thanks again!
ZVP

Gatofeo · April 16, 2011, 06:03 PM

The late gun writer Elmer Keith (1899 - 1984) began carrying a Colt 1851 Navy in 1912, when he was 13.
He grew up around Civil War veterans in western Montana. Two of the veterans, one a Confederate and the other a Union soldier, saw a great deal of action.
Keith wrote that both veterans told him that the conical bullets were good for penetration, but a ball over a full chamber of powder had much more stopping power.
Keith agrees with this, citing his experiences in shooting game with conicals or balls.
"The conical pointed bullets gave more range and penetration than round balls, but never were as accurate in our guns, nor did they kill game as well as the round ball. The pointed bullets seemingly slipped through game with a very small wound channel while the blunt round ball at fairly high velocity, tore a good wound channel all the way," Keith wrote in his book, Sixguns released in 1955 (and I believe still in print).

That said, archaeological surveys of Civil War campsites and battlefields shows that nearly all projectiles used in revolvers were conical. The concal bullet, with its attached paper tube containing gunpowder, was standard issue for both armies.
If you wanted balls, you likely had to cast your own, and I don't see many soldiers having the time or resources to do that. Ever try casting bullets in a campfire? I have, and it's not as easy as depicted.

Very few pistol balls have been found where the armies camped or fought.

Rachen · April 18, 2011, 01:53 PM

I cast Lee conicals for both cap and ball loads and black powder cartridge loads. They work really good, thats all I can say about it and gives great accuracy for shooting out to 100 yards.

April 14, 2011, 01:52 AM	#1
Newton24b Junior member Join Date: February 10, 2009 Posts: 974	percussion revolver bullets the 44 armies can take a 180-200 grain conical with minor pain to the user in regards to loading it. from the limited energy figures ive seen, the 45 acp can get a 185 grain hp-swc to expand at roughly the same velocity the bp revolver can reach. so am i somewhat crazy to be wondering how well the 45 acp hp-swc could work in a bp cylinder?

April 14, 2011, 05:50 AM	#4
B.L.E. Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2008 Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX Posts: 2,603	I attempted to us some Hornady swaged lead .45 acp bullets that I happened to have in my ROA but they were too small to seat in the chambers, i.e. they just dropped in, and back out. 220 grain .45 Maxie Balls that I have a Lymann bullet mold for seat nicely in a ROA chamber but only allow room for about 25 grains of powder, so it's not a useful hunting bullet. Great for just plinking though, those deep grease grooves filled with grease keeps the barrel one-shot dirty even after multiple cylinders have been shot through it without wiping the barrel, although that light 25 grain powder charge helps in that regard also. __________________ Hanlon's Razor "Do not invoke conspiracy as explanation when ignorance and incompetence will suffice, as conspiracy implies intelligence and organization."

April 15, 2011, 06:34 PM	#5
ZVP Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2009 Posts: 1,102	Ball weights? I bought some .457 and .380 balls to try in my revolvers. I'd had good luck shooting .454 balls in my .44 instead of the .451's and they shot very accurately so I figured why not go a little bigger? I noticed that these really press hard into the chambers but once in a bit they seem to shoot accurately! I load with Patches usualy but with the .457's I use Criswco. Is there that much actual weight gain by going up a couple thousandths? For the .36 I read that going up to .3380 will aid both in the chamber gas seal plus in the barrel catching the rifling. I have yet to try the .380's but am looking forward to trying them for accuracy. I notice that I have one chamber on my Uberti which with a .375 ball will not hold the ball tight. I assumed this is slightly oversized and hoped the .380 Ball will take up on this problem? What weights do the .454 and .457 weigh? How bout a .380? ZVP

April 16, 2011, 06:03 PM	#8
Gatofeo Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2004 Location: Remote Utah desert Posts: 224	The late gun writer Elmer Keith (1899 - 1984) began carrying a Colt 1851 Navy in 1912, when he was 13. He grew up around Civil War veterans in western Montana. Two of the veterans, one a Confederate and the other a Union soldier, saw a great deal of action. Keith wrote that both veterans told him that the conical bullets were good for penetration, but a ball over a full chamber of powder had much more stopping power. Keith agrees with this, citing his experiences in shooting game with conicals or balls. "The conical pointed bullets gave more range and penetration than round balls, but never were as accurate in our guns, nor did they kill game as well as the round ball. The pointed bullets seemingly slipped through game with a very small wound channel while the blunt round ball at fairly high velocity, tore a good wound channel all the way," Keith wrote in his book, Sixguns released in 1955 (and I believe still in print). That said, archaeological surveys of Civil War campsites and battlefields shows that nearly all projectiles used in revolvers were conical. The concal bullet, with its attached paper tube containing gunpowder, was standard issue for both armies. If you wanted balls, you likely had to cast your own, and I don't see many soldiers having the time or resources to do that. Ever try casting bullets in a campfire? I have, and it's not as easy as depicted. Very few pistol balls have been found where the armies camped or fought. __________________ "And lo, did I see an ugly cat. Smoke. Brimstone. Holes in parchment. And this ugly cat was much amused." --- The Prophesies of Gatodamus (1503 - 1566)

April 14, 2011, 03:27 AM	#2
Bootsie Senior Member Join Date: April 30, 2007 Location: Hofheim/Germany Posts: 102	You might experience problems to load the .451/.452 dia .45 ACP bullets into the chambers of most 1860 clones because they have no (guiding) heel. Bootsie

April 14, 2011, 05:40 AM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	Lee conicals. No pain.

April 15, 2011, 07:48 PM	#7
ZVP Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2009 Posts: 1,102	B.L.E. Thanks! Math is my weakest subject but that one is simple! I guess the small weight gain won't result in much of a M/E change. To get that you'd likely need to shoot conicals. I have read of some pretty impressive .44 caliber energies with Conicals. Civil war soilders seemed to swear by them. Thanks again! ZVP

April 18, 2011, 01:53 PM	#9
Rachen Senior Member Join Date: May 10, 2006 Location: Weekend cowboy Posts: 542	I cast Lee conicals for both cap and ball loads and black powder cartridge loads. They work really good, thats all I can say about it and gives great accuracy for shooting out to 100 yards.