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Old July 16, 2018, 10:39 AM   #1
catzan
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delayed, how long do i wait

I bought a gun on june 30th it was delayed, iv never had a problem before passing the back ground check. its now been 16 days. anybody know how long these delays can take? Im bummed out, I want my new to toy to play with and go shooting.
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Old July 16, 2018, 02:15 PM   #2
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If you've contacted the establishment where you were purchasing the firearm and they've not received any response from NICS either way, by law they are allowed to go ahead and transfer the firearm to you after I believe five days if you were not denied, certainly less than 16.
If they are not willing to make the transfer, which is their prerogative, then I would scratch that one and find another establishment to make your purchase.
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Old July 16, 2018, 03:33 PM   #3
buck460XVR
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When a check requires more information(as in a delay), the FBI has three business days to make a final determination on the buyer. If a decision can’t be made in that time, a licensed dealer is allowed by law to go ahead and sell the firearm.
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Old July 16, 2018, 08:57 PM   #4
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The feds have three days. After that it is up to the discretion of the retailer. A lot of the bigger retailers, such as Academy Sports, will not sell you the gun without a firm proceed. Since it has already been 16 days, my guess is that your retailer has such a policy.
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Old July 16, 2018, 11:04 PM   #5
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My buddy in California neve had a problem and then all of a sudden had several weeks delay for no good reason. Politics!
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Old July 16, 2018, 11:11 PM   #6
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72 hours by federal law (and I'm not sure exactly how they count it), makes it legal for a "default proceed" - but that's only federal law, you can have state laws, you can have individual store policies. Some stores might not ever transfer a gun on a default proceed, some might always, some might sometimes, some might after a month, some might to you and not some other person or vice versa. Usually if you get a delay, a good business is going to ask "OK so do you want to cancel it or wait?".

You also didn't mention the state - no idea of what is out there but states can have their own laws about delays, and can also be the one doing the checks.

In NH - any sale only involving rifles, or "other" firearms (which means AR lowers not marked as pistols basically), goes through normal NICS, while any sale involving a pistol (or a pistol and other guns) goes through the state police... My point is, to be accurate, it's not necessarily the feds doing the check, depending on your specific state/laws.

My 3rd gun purchase this year produced a 6 day delay, the two before it did not, the one after it did not. Such crap is par for the course.
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Old July 17, 2018, 12:07 AM   #7
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im in oregon
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Old July 17, 2018, 10:25 AM   #8
Brian Pfleuger
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Call the dealer and ask. That’s your most obvious and accurate (in terms of their policy at least) source of information.
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Old July 17, 2018, 04:14 PM   #9
catzan
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I asked they said no. you have to wait.
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Old July 17, 2018, 04:18 PM   #10
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The delay could be indefinite. I’ve had customers get delayed indefinitely and we never got a response. Though usually a delay comes back resolved in less than a week.

But, as others have said, federal law doesn’t prohibit the dealer from transferring the firearm to you after 3 business days have elapsed, even if they haven’t received a response yet.

Here it is straight from the FBI website (remember, the ATF regulates guns but the FBI does the background checks):

https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics/a-nics-delay
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Old July 17, 2018, 04:30 PM   #11
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catzan View Post
I asked they said no. you have to wait.
Well then that’s the answer. They have that right. They might be ignorant, or that might be their policy. Either way, you can’t fight them on it.

There is no legal provision for an “indefinite” delay. It’s 3 days, response or no. No response is not “indefinite”, the law specifically allows transfer after 3 days, as long as the response does not get CHANGED to denied. It can either be changed to “denied”, changed to “proceed” or no response is implicit “proceed”. There is no “indefinite”.

It should be said, I suppose, that technically a denial can come back after the 3 days, after the transfer has potentially already taken place. However, it is no longer the dealers responsibility at that point. If the firearm must be... uh... “repossessed”, it is the FBI’s problem.
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Old July 17, 2018, 05:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Pflueger
There is no legal provision for an “indefinite” delay. It’s 3 days, response or no. No response is not “indefinite”, the law specifically allows transfer after 3 days, as long as the response does not get CHANGED to denied. It can either be changed to “denied”, changed to “proceed” or no response is implicit “proceed”. There is no “indefinite”.
I’m aware of that, I’ve managed at two different FFLs. Sorry if I was unclear: My point was simply that with some delays the FFL never receives a response from NICS. So if the store policy is not to deliver the gun until a response is received, the OP might never receive his gun: If he simply waits for the store to receive a response, he’ll be waiting indefinitely.

In that case, to get his gun he’d need to actively challenge the delay through the NICS appeal process. Though I’ve never had a customer who appealed a delay, only a denial, since my stores have always had the policy of delivering the gun after three business days of no response.
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Old July 17, 2018, 07:01 PM   #13
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Yes, sir. I was expounding for the OP’s clarity.
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Old July 17, 2018, 07:35 PM   #14
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If you are not out cash, just go down the road...
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Old July 17, 2018, 08:24 PM   #15
Theohazard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Pfleuger View Post
Yes, sir. I was expounding for the OP’s clarity.
Sorry, I thought you thought I was saying that “indefinite” was an official NICS response. I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan View Post
If you are not out cash, just go down the road...
This. OP, did you put any money down? If not, just go somewhere else. (Unless OR has a state law preventing FFLs from delivering delayed guns before a response is received; I don’t know much about OR law.)
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Old July 17, 2018, 09:51 PM   #16
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I just did a quick check and it turns out Oregon is a point of contact state for NICS checks - in other words the check goes through the state, who probably uses the same database but applies their judgement and possibly uses other pieces of information only they would have access to locally.

Soooo, you should investigate how things work in your own state, but if the state is doing the check usually you are not going to have to go through a formal appeals process to figure out what is going on - my strong recommendation is to lookup a lawyer that deals in firearms law locally and call them. It sucks to have to do this but unfortunately it can be part of the cost of owning guns.

A personal story of mine, during such a delay I consulted a lawyer, signed a release form, and the state agency doing the check was contacted regarding what was going on with check. Within an hour, almost simultaneously I both got a "proceed" along with a brief explanation of what was dragging things out, as well as information stating the error causing the confusion had been corrected. That cost me < $200 and was worth every penny. So, my .02 - call a lawyer.
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Old July 18, 2018, 12:15 PM   #17
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quite a few years back, a friend of mine started getting "Delayed" on the check (Fed system). He was a bit torqued, he hasn't had so much as a traffic ticket in over 50 years!!! He has NO criminal record of any kind.

He contacted the Feds, went through some variation of the appeal process, I guess. The "Delay" turned out to be because his file was "flagged".

When a flag pops up, the person running the check STOPS, and turns it over to a higher level (manager) for a determination. This can take time, depending on the efficiency of the system, and the people involved.

He did get things resolved, turned out the reason his file was flagged was that he had held a Q level security clearance!!! (that's a higher level than "Top Secret"). The Feds gave him a PIN, and now he doesn't get delayed.

Some times a delay happens because the system has 7 "John Smith"s and more information is needed, so its delayed until the info is obtained. Adding the buyer's SSN usually prevents this. If not, getting a PIN from the Fed (or the state running the check?) is the fix.

It shouldn't take a lawyer, but using one sometimes has a greater effect than not using one.
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Old July 18, 2018, 12:44 PM   #18
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Years ago my record was "flagged". It shook up a small town PD. shook them up so much the officer on the stop forgot to write the ticket. Why they decided to run an NCIC it will never know.
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Old July 18, 2018, 12:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44 AMP View Post
He did get things resolved, turned out the reason his file was flagged was that he had held a Q level security clearance!!! (that's a higher level than "Top Secret"). The Feds gave him a PIN, and now he doesn't get delayed.
Why would a security clearance delay buying a gun? If anything, it should speed things up
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Old July 18, 2018, 01:17 PM   #20
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The reasons vary by state it seems. I have a problem with my FBI record that shows two charges that are 40 years old but no resolution. I was never charged in either case but I was arrested because I had a beef going with a local sherriff. Short story, the records no longer exist that would clear the charges so I'm stuck between a hard spot and a rock. Everytime I buy a firearm it goes to 3 day delay and then comes back as "Unresolved". If the FFL is willing, I have to wait 24 hours and then I can pickup the firearm. I deal with the same FFL and it's a standing joke.

Oddly enough, the authorities making the decision said it happens to a lot of people in Nevada and that I needn't worry since I have been permanently marked as unresolved and unless I do something to stupid, I will never be denied. They also said that if I want to avoid this I should go get a Conceald Carry permit. That process is different and items that can never be resolved are discarded.
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Old July 18, 2018, 10:11 PM   #21
craddleshooter
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you are being too soft, the moment you tell them that you want to cancel the order and you want you Money back...they will deliver..trust me i have been there before.
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Old July 19, 2018, 12:04 AM   #22
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you are being too soft, the moment you tell them that you want to cancel the order and you want you Money back...they will deliver..trust me i have been there before.
That comment is uncalled for. Please tell me how he's being "soft".

If you had purchased a gun at the first two stores where I worked and had been delayed, you'd have had to pay a restocking fee if you had decided to cancel the sale instead of waiting for the delay to clear. No exceptions. So in that case I'd guess you'd be "soft" too.
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Old July 19, 2018, 01:15 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theohazard
If you had purchased a gun at the first two stores where I worked and had been delayed, you'd have had to pay a restocking fee if you had decided to cancel the sale instead of waiting for the delay to clear. No exceptions. So in that case I'd guess you'd be "soft" too.
What is the delay never cleared? You would have held his money indefinitely? Even though the law says you can release the gun in the delay doesn't change to a denial withing three days?

That doesn't sound like a store I'd want to do business with.
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Old July 19, 2018, 07:51 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Aguila Blanca
What is the delay never cleared? You would have held his money indefinitely? Even though the law says you can release the gun in the delay doesn't change to a denial withing three days?

That doesn't sound like a store I'd want to do business with.
No, both stores released a delay after 3 business days. The restocking fee was charged if we were holding a gun for a customer who was waiting on a delay and they decided to cancel the sale either because the delay was taking too long (even though we were willing to release it after 3 business days) or because the delay came back as a denial. However, both stores were willing to hold the gun free of charge while the customer either waited on a delay or challenged a denial. In the case of a denial, that sometimes ended up taking over a year.

The purpose of the restocking fee was to discourage people from using our store to simply test the background check system. We didn't want people who had no interest in actually buying a gun, but simply wanted to find out if they could pass a background check. In both cases I didn't agree with how high the restocking fee was, but that was the owners' call, not mine.
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Old July 19, 2018, 10:23 AM   #25
catzan
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Yes, I already paid for the gun. they have my money. would getting a upin number make any difference for future gun purchase?
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