Damascus barrel

[dpw21562]

I have an old double barreled Damascus shotgun. Would it be safe to use a vintage Savage adapter to shoot .410 shells in this gun? The adapter is for 2 1/2 or 3 inch.

[dreaming]

First consider warnings for shooting any old Damascus barrel shotgun, which can be found with a google. You may want to look at this on you tube. By vintage do you mean you have the older steel adapters?

[Minorcan]

On a microscopic level, Damascus barrels are individual pieces of metal welded together. They are not all that strong when new and as they age the micro spaces between the metal bits allows corrosion to take place. So, even if properly taken care of Damascus, and especially older, Damascus barrels are almost impossible to tell what their integrity and strength are without testing. I would recommend remote testing or just looking at them as art and not shooting them. Never use any modern powders in a Damascus barrel.

[dpw21562]

Yes, the old dteel adapter.

[Bill DeShivs]

I would think you would be fine using the .410 adapter. It contains all the pressure.

[FITASC]

And many folks shoot older guns with twist and Damascus barrels; some guns are from the 1880s and do just fine with the proper ammo. And yes, the adaptor - if it fits in the gun - should be just fine.

[44 AMP]

I would think you would be fine using the .410 adapter. It contains all the pressure.

I would agree, the barrels would be fine, but you might have to keep an eye on the breech face. It should be ok, but "old Damascus barrel shotguns" range from high quality guns to cheap junk, and I don't know what you have...

The pressure of a .410 is within what the gun should handle, BUT its applied to a smaller area than the 12ga so, if the breech is a tad "soft" you might have an issue, eventually.

And many folks shoot older guns with twist and Damascus barrels; some guns are from the 1880s and do just fine with the proper ammo.

This is true. But note that the "proper" ammo is loaded with black powder, and the old style wads. NOT modern ammo loaded to "black powder pressures"

And note that while most of those very old guns do just fine with the proper ammo, every now and then, one of them does blow up. (barrels burst/unravel)

The Damascus method, hammer welding strips of steel together makes excellent knives and swords, but knives and sword blades are not put under the same kind of stress as a gun barrel.

As previously mentioned, Damascus barrels (and twist or Stub Twist) always have the potential of having rust formed inside the voids of the welds, weakening them.

There is NO way to see this, and no way to tell, short of destructive testing (which kind of makes it a moot point)

The older the gun, the longer its been exposed to rust, so the greater the potential risk. There is no way to tell, by eye, SURFACE rust is not the issue, though its a good indicator, but even a gun that looks great can have weakened welds in the barrel.

As to the barrel adaptor, if it could be fired outside of the gun, without letting go, then it won't let go inside the gun, either.

[dreaming]

It sounds like you are good to go with the steel .410 adapter from what the knowledgeable folk say above. But do not assume that your old Damascus barrels can handle the gauge they were intended to shoot sans adapters.

[FITASC]

44 -
There are folks who make modern ammo for old guns. Vintager loads are made to the pressures of yesterday's black powder ammo and are quite safe if the gun is safe.

[44 AMP]

made to the pressures of yesterday's black powder ammo and are quite safe if the gun is safe

A number of people who shoot the very old guns, including some recognized published experts are now of the opinion that while smokeless ammo made to black powder pressures is not "blow up" dangerous, it is not good for the gun.

They say that while peak pressures are within specs,, the difference between the way smokeless and black powder get there puts different stresses on the gun, and guns shot with "blackpowder equivalent" smokeless loads fail at a higher rate than those shot only with black powder.

Remember we're talking about guns mostly between 100 and 150 years old, and even the best metals in those days aren't close to what we have now, and many guns weren't made of "the best" they were made of what was "more than good enough" at the time.

this might just be the rantings of some enthusiasts wanting to preserve their cherished antiques as long a possible.

It might be true.

I have no idea either way, but it sounds reasonable to me.

Your call to shoot with what you choose.

[jrothWA]

over to London for british proof-testing.

Contact them and see if they still do that.

Remember the time pressure curve is different in that: Smokeless powder the time element is longer and effects the length of the barrel, and the black-powder is shorter and effect the barrel for a shorter barrel length, where it is thicker.

[BigJimP]

What is the point of risking shooting it ??? ---- emphasis is " old Damascus ".... and we know shooting it is inherently dangerous..../ .... inserts might be ok..../ but to the OP , why do you want to....and is it worth the risk ...?