Do you need at least 10 shots to establish a valid group? - Page 2

James K · April 7, 2017, 09:44 PM

To me a shooting a group is a method of testing a rifle or a handgun, the same way that patterning tests a shotgun. It is perfectly OK in that respect and can show up both a defective gun and/or a poor shooting performance. A good tool, as long as the shooter is under no illusion that a 3 or 5 or 10 shot "group" will matter in a situation where only the first shot counts.

Jim

2damnold4this · April 8, 2017, 09:33 AM

If you are shooting groups to test the accuracy of the rifle/load or to establish a zero, I would shoot from a bench at an appropriate target. Once the accuracy of the rifle/ammo/optic combination and zero have been established, I can move on to test myself or attempt to develop skill. I don't think the Army qualification target or silhouette targets are good choices for this type of testing or zeroing.

If you are shooting to test your skill from various field positions, using a target that represents what you may be shooting at makes sense. A silhouette of an "enemy" soldier, a deer shaped target with the vitals marked in a way you can't see them until you check the target, a steel or paper plate approximating the size of a game animal's vitals and etc., all make sense to test your skills. But I'm not concerned with group size but rather if the vitals are hit or not. If I'm shooting a post qualification target, I don't care if I get a 1.75" group, I care if I hit the propper part of the target.

Nathan · April 8, 2017, 10:10 AM

To make an advertised product claim, I think you need 100 shots from 10 barrels (10 sets of testing) spaced 5 s apart and 1 min reloads for a pistol or AR type rifle. For a bolt rifle 1 shot every 30s with 1 min reloads. Fired from a jig.

For reloading, 5 shot groups unless your sport has larger groups then, double the sport's group size. Fired by the shooter from a solid rest.

April 7, 2017, 09:44 PM	#26
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	To me a shooting a group is a method of testing a rifle or a handgun, the same way that patterning tests a shotgun. It is perfectly OK in that respect and can show up both a defective gun and/or a poor shooting performance. A good tool, as long as the shooter is under no illusion that a 3 or 5 or 10 shot "group" will matter in a situation where only the first shot counts. Jim

April 8, 2017, 09:33 AM	#27
2damnold4this Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 2009 Location: Athens, Georgia Posts: 2,526	If you are shooting groups to test the accuracy of the rifle/load or to establish a zero, I would shoot from a bench at an appropriate target. Once the accuracy of the rifle/ammo/optic combination and zero have been established, I can move on to test myself or attempt to develop skill. I don't think the Army qualification target or silhouette targets are good choices for this type of testing or zeroing. If you are shooting to test your skill from various field positions, using a target that represents what you may be shooting at makes sense. A silhouette of an "enemy" soldier, a deer shaped target with the vitals marked in a way you can't see them until you check the target, a steel or paper plate approximating the size of a game animal's vitals and etc., all make sense to test your skills. But I'm not concerned with group size but rather if the vitals are hit or not. If I'm shooting a post qualification target, I don't care if I get a 1.75" group, I care if I hit the propper part of the target.

April 8, 2017, 10:10 AM	#28
Nathan Senior Member Join Date: July 1, 2001 Posts: 6,333	To make an advertised product claim, I think you need 100 shots from 10 barrels (10 sets of testing) spaced 5 s apart and 1 min reloads for a pistol or AR type rifle. For a bolt rifle 1 shot every 30s with 1 min reloads. Fired from a jig. For reloading, 5 shot groups unless your sport has larger groups then, double the sport's group size. Fired by the shooter from a solid rest.