May 17, 2019, 10:03 PM | #76 | |
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May 18, 2019, 08:28 AM | #77 |
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Not really, rather the reality of the LCP I happen to own. Once again, here is the table I provided before.
All of the measurements were ten iterations using a Lyman Digital Gauge and rounded to the nearest whole ounce. The math itself was done by the gauge.
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May 18, 2019, 08:45 AM | #78 |
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If your Sig P230 only measures 4 pound in DA, I would agree that maybe there is something wrong with your scale. Mine is closer to the 9 pound range.
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May 18, 2019, 10:16 AM | #79 |
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Yet it seems to work for other handguns. All of the measurements were taken in the same way over about two days. Each case was ten iterations. Then the tool itself did the averaging.
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May 18, 2019, 10:39 AM | #80 |
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Have you tried the trigger pull on other LCPs with your little toy? There is obviously something amiss with either your LCP, or electronic gadget.
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May 18, 2019, 01:08 PM | #81 |
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No, I only own one LCP and that is what my reports are based on. But as I have pointed out before, even if the trigger pull on the LCP were a pound or two higher it still has all the other things that would keep it at the very bottom of the 380s I own.
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May 18, 2019, 01:16 PM | #82 |
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I've shot most of and even owned a few of the guns on that list and their D/A triggers were nowhere near as light as the ones presented here.
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May 18, 2019, 01:22 PM | #83 |
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Jar, there is an easy way to check if your trigger scale is accurate. A one gallon jug of water weight approximately 8.5 pounds. Hook up a coat hanger to the jug and use your trigger scale to pick it up. If it reads 8.5 pounds or close, then your scale is correct.
Funny though how all the trigger pulls you list are light across the board, not just the LCP. 4 pounds for any double action hammer fired pull is incredibly light!
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May 18, 2019, 02:19 PM | #84 |
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It's worth checking. But as I have said repeatedly the main issue is not trigger weight and all the other items mentioned would remain.
Even if the gauge is off the same gauge was used for all the samples. The ratios and relative trigger pulls should remain the same with the LCP being the lightest of the samples regardless of the absolute reading. AbE: Checked the scale against known weights of my S&W 469 and 5906. The scale shows the 469 at just over 1 pound 10 ounces and the 5906 at 2 pounds 6 ounces. Those are very close to the published weights for the two models. Also checked against the Star UltraStar so pretty sure the gauge is not too far off.
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May 18, 2019, 02:30 PM | #85 | |
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May 18, 2019, 02:51 PM | #86 | |
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Also checked the gauge and it seems pretty much dead on. See above.
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May 18, 2019, 03:26 PM | #87 |
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Check with a gallon of distilled water and it shows 8 pounds 8 ounces and that includes packaging.
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May 18, 2019, 07:44 PM | #88 | |
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The trigger weights you give for standard S&W models are even less than the trigger weight of the special 3566 competition model tuned by the S&W Performance Center. |
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May 18, 2019, 08:01 PM | #89 |
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That chart is way out of whack. Time to get a new measuring device.
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May 18, 2019, 08:47 PM | #90 | |
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From YOUR own chart! Smith & Wesson 5906 only D/A measured 6 pounds 2 ounces Smith & Wesson 469 only D/A measured 7 pounds 13 ounces. 1 gallon water 8 pounds 8 ounces Beginning to look like some serious "operator error, or a very faulty tool! But despite all the obvious trigger pull weight errors, slide hold open, and second strike aren't even worth mentioning. Slide hold open, in a self defense pocket gun for civilian use. For what. You're not going to be getting into an extended gun battle. If you do with any pocket pistol chances are you will be gone before you even need a reload. Pure Mall Ninja stuff. Second strike, again pure Mall Ninja. Unless you handload with the same diligence as you are using that trigger pull guage, when's the last time you had a round fail to fire on the first try? Let's see, from my experience excluding rimfire. My handloads....never Various brands of range ammo......never Quality self defense ammo......never
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May 18, 2019, 10:39 PM | #91 |
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May 18, 2019, 11:23 PM | #92 | |
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May 19, 2019, 11:00 AM | #93 |
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Regarding whether or not the slide holdback works, and how unimportant that hold back is, I can't believe that people are saying that it's unimportant.
There is nothing more important than planning for trouble. A .380 is a gun created for and reserved for shooting at bad guys. That requires an absolute minimum of distraction. Having to rack a slide as part of putting in a new magazine is a distraction. It also creates delays. It might be forgotten even. Almost every combat training course includes working with only one hand. It's important to learn how to work a gun with only a single hand. How will you work the slide on the LCP if there aren't any surfaces handy that you can hook that slide on? How many people could actually do that? You can't rack a slide with your teeth. If I am caught with my slide locked shut and it's one of the days when my fingers just don't work properly, I am going to die./ Just offhand, doesn't pretty much every semiautomatic weapon use a hold open device? If it's so important that nearly every semiautomatic pistol sold has one, is it really logical to say that it is unimportant to have one in a pistol intended for nothing at all but combat use?
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May 19, 2019, 11:37 AM | #94 | |
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Their intended "combat" use is as a up close, few feet away belly gun to ward off an attack. To say an LCP is a "combat" weapon is like saying a Prius is a NASCAR racer. If the type of "combat" these small weapons are intended for isn't over with two or three rounds, let alone a full mag, you're done. And not reloading anything anyway.
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May 19, 2019, 11:53 AM | #95 |
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With the LCP (or any other semi-auto) the user can train to count the rounds fired, and change mags while there's still a live round in the chamber. This is faster than relying on slide to lock open as an indicator because you don't have to release the slide since the last round is in battery when the fresh mag is installed.
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May 19, 2019, 12:39 PM | #96 |
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briandg, issues with having to rack the slide is why people shouldn't carry on an open chamber. As I discussed earlier, the little .380 guns are valuable because they are tiny. They are about as small as you can go within what some of us would consider reasonable for self-defense. So some of us will carry them when we can't carry something larger. In those cases, will we also have room for a spare mag? How many of us will bother carrying the spare mag?
Yeah, some people carry them as their primary EDC because they are convenient. How many of those people will be carrying a spare mag? Locking back matters if you are carrying a spare magazine and you end up having to change magazines in a defensive encounter. On a hot day, I've usually got six rounds and a prayer. |
May 19, 2019, 03:16 PM | #97 | ||||
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Cosmo,
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May 19, 2019, 07:52 PM | #98 |
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When I carry, it is usually a 380 pocket pistol(rm380). I don't carry it in my pocket because I have other things in my pockets(I don't carry a purse, fanny pack, satchel, back pack, etc...). My pistol does lock back on empty, and I'm glad it does. At the range, I do count rounds, but in a stressful situation(firing my carry piece for defense) I don't think I'll be able to monitor my rounds fired, or at least, I'm not counting on it(pun by accident). I do not carry an extra mag. Last round hold open at least alerts me of empty.
I'm not saying these choices are correct for anyone but myself, but this is how I do it.
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May 19, 2019, 08:50 PM | #99 | |
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It's all marketing...the LCP won't announce when it's empty! |
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May 19, 2019, 09:06 PM | #100 |
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Well, if after 7 rounds my opponent notices I'm empty, I guess he's earned his chance. Shame on me for not doing my part. I don't have all the answers. I'm not one of the guys that has the solution to every possible problem. It is unrealistic.
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