Opinion about carcano?

[SIGSHR]

Yes, the Swiss had their Schmidt Rubins, though they never saw combat, the M1895 Lee-Navy had a rather short service life and was not that satisfactory.
Yes, the French used the Mannlicher system in their M1907/15/16 rifles and carbines, and adopted the Mauser style stripper clip for the MAS 1936. And I suspect many of those serving today wish they had M1911s.

[goodolsavage]

[QUOTE=SIGSHR;5753841]And the M1911 is still in production and widely regarded as THE handgun for military or self defense use.

Disagree. A lot of armed forces use glock or berreta 92. I think only very few parts of the us Millitary use 1911 anymore. As for self defence is rather have a glock or berreta due to they hold 17 and 15 rounds with dependingg on the glock . That and the reliabillity of a glock is amazing

[goodolsavage]

Originally Posted by Magnum Wheel Man

so... I didn't see any response to my post...



are the Berretta Carcano's fairly uncommon ??? mine looks very well made & is likely one of my nicest milsurps...

I wouldnt say "uncommon" but not as common and yes they are built pretty good. And should shoot pretty good

[goodolsavage]

Originally Posted by tahunua001

and what service pistol doesn't have to jump through a bunch of hoops and get special waivers to be adopted by military and police? I guess all I S&W rep has to do is hand a catalog to a police chief and they just order 75 M&P40s without a second thought? and the US military switched to the M9 without any field tests, they just decided they wanted something different that shot 9mm nato? beretta must have just been the first ones in line.



the 1911 served from 1911 to 1985, a 74 year service life which is pretty much extraordinary for any service arm. USMC has roughly 12,000 1911s for MEU use. it is anything but a dinosaur.

Is millitary did do testing in the berreta 92. It was orginally just the 92f but the slide can crack causing it to fly off the gun so berreta made the 92fs and fixed the problem with slides comming off. The us millitary dont go and adopt a gun without testing.

[tahunua001]

I was speaking facetiously and very sarcastically. the claim that the 1911 had to jump through hoops to be adopted just struck me as a little bit ignorant considering that all service arms are field tested before any large number are purchaced and adopted for general issue.

[44 AMP]

we're drifting.....

The Italians know how to make fine guns. Where they dropped the ball in WWII was making good weapons (among other things...). Carcanos are well enough made for the job they were intended to do, but not as advanced as later rifle designs.

Carcano's were the butt of the old joke, "for sale, Italian service rifle, good condition, never been fired, only dropped once..."

A serviceable rifle, actively used in combat long after its design was obsolete. (its not alone in that, by any means). Not well suited to being adapted to sporting use. As a military collectible, a good gun. For practical use today, not so much.

[Knight cadet]

I think if I got a Carcano I'd want to get it chambered for a different round. Maybe .38 sp, .357, or 7.62x39. They all have the same rim diameter so the bolt wouldn't need to be machined, making it an easier conversion.

[44 AMP]

Last chance folks, if you want to talk 1911s start a thread for it.

[Romeo 33 Delta]

Knight Cadet ... why rechamber it? Before answering, I'll admit to having done ALOT of rechambering and wildcatting ... but, why with a Carcano?

Just because you have a rim diameter matching the bolt face does not address the unique feeeding issues with a Carcano. You can't just drop a round in the chamber and slam the bolt home. You are likely to bend the extractor ... at worst you'll break it. The extractor will not ride up over the rim like you hope it will ... you need to feed from a clip or pull the bolt and hook the cartridge under the extractor and reinsert the bolt. (I've done that, it's easily done and it does work, but it may not be your cup 'o tea).

Dies (Lee), Brass (Privi), Bullets (Hornady 6.5 & Buffalo Arms 7.35), Good Loading Data (Hornady and all over the Internet) are all available and not costly. You don't reload? If you don't, that's just a cryin' shame, Dude!

44 AMP hit some great points, especially about not being praticularly suited to being sporterized: a) a 6.5mm bore that needs to see a .2675" bullet that's not available rather than our common .264" bullet which is available. b) a 7.35mm bore that wants to see a .300" bullet that's not available. c) a clip (6 round capacity) is required for feeding (many States have a 5 round limit. You can deal with this issue, but it still requires one more "jerking around" step). d) with its Mannlicher receiver, mounting a receiver sight is out of the question and the original iron sights are not calibrated for our sight picture (they bury the front sight into the bottom of the rear sight "V"). e) Mounting a scope requires an off-set mount which is "unconventional" to our way of thinking. Too many negatives when you can spend a couple of more bucks and buy a surplus Mauser and go hunting!

My 2 cents worth; buy a Carcano in 6.5 and some Privi ammo and clips and go shooting. A number of my Carcano 6.5s shoot quite well with a .264" bullet (that Hornady .264" is like their .268" ... long, parallel sides that a Carcano likes to see). If yours needs a bigger bullet ... just get into reloading. If you start with Lee equipment (Challenger press is fine) you're only looking a a couple hundred bucks. OK, that's a chunk for only one, stupid caliber ... but once you have the equipment, all you need is another Lee die set (8mm Mauser?), some Boxer brass, some more bullets, primers and powder and you're now loading for your Kar98k ... and so it goes.

[Knight cadet]

Just an idea. I am just getting started with collecting, but have access to my dad's very large collection and ammo dump. I'll probably never get a carcano except through inheritance, mostly because of the ammo issue.

[Romeo 33 Delta]

Not that you aren't already ... but be a very good son! I don't know if you have siblings, but if not, you could end up with a big boost in your collection. Even if you Dad doesn't gift some or all to you, if he knows you are interested, he might give you the right of first refusal and/or cut you a really hard to beat "family" discount.

I'm almost 69 and I know that if I had a son who was as interested as you seem to be, I'd do everything in my power to pass along ALL my knowledge and ALL my firearms. Yes, I could sell them ... but that would not be my first instinct in the scenerio I'm painting.

Also, if you were really interested in doing a caliber change to a Carcano, a GREAT choice would be keep the Carcano brass and rebarrel in either .264" or .308". I've ordered barrels from folks like Pac-Nor and had them custom profile from a barrel I supplied them. Yes, there's a small fee for them to do this ... but if you really want a different caliber, it can be done. Going with .264" you could use stock, inexpensive ($30 at Midway) LEE 6.5 Carcano dies for reloading ... or just shoot Privi (I believe they are still using a .264" bullet ... anybody know anything to the contrary?). Further, you could use existing Carcano clips. Just a thought. The .308" option means custom dies, they won't break the bank, but the first option is cheaper. I'd just make sure the gunsmith putting this .264" together PROMINENTLY marks the barrel: .264" BORE.

[Knight cadet]

I don't have any interest in reloading, but maybe someday.

My brother and I will be splitting up his large (150 or so) collection someday if he still has it. We're both into guns and started shooting in elementary school. My brother and I like the newer assault rifles, and dad has some of them, but alot of the older ones too. It was always cool to be able to look at the actual guns that were on our video games.

As far as the carcano re-bareling idea, what other calibers have the same case head as 6.5carcano? I know about 7.62x39, what would be some others? .357 mag? .40 S&W? isn't there an AR round based on the 7.62x39?

I would think that one of the few advantages of being clip fed is that it would make it easier to convert calibers with just a magazine spacer since the rounds are held in place by the clip.

Just an idea, I guess you can tell why I'm an engineering major.

[Romeo 33 Delta]

An Engineering Major,eh? EE?, ME? ...?

You are already pre-programed to "screw around with guns" (HaHa!) I've spent decades working with my "smith" on rifles with calibers that are useless ... but what fun! Interested in a rimmed 7.62 X 39? Why? So you can shoot it in a repro M1885 Winchester.

Other calibers for that Carcano ... 7.62 X 45 Czech. Basically a 7.62 X 39 with a 6mm longer case. Add 6mm more and you have a 7.62 X 51. While it's not our 7.62 X 51 ... it is a .308" Carcano. The AR 7.62 X 39 is the Soviet cartridge (same for 5.45 X 39), just a different bolt face from 5.56X 45. There's the old 6.5 X 54 Manlicher-Schoenhauer. In fact, before Privi started doing 6.5 X 52 Carcano, I made my own Carcano from it.

You mentioned not having an interest in reloading. I didn't either, until I wanted to shoot my first Carcano ... a 6.5 TS Carbine that my Dad sent back from Italy. That got me started and now I'm into something like 212 different calibers, many of them extremely obsolete (11mm Murata or .276 Enfield) or wildcats (7.62 X 39R or 7.62 X 25R). I just want to make sure you keep that option open ... it's way too much fun and if you keep your wits about you, not even remotely dangerous.

The reason I thought to stear you toward a .264" bore Carcano was to have you avoid reloading. You still have all the expense of a new barrel and custom profiling, you'll need a chamber reamer with a .264" pilot, then there are the "smithing" charges for chambering, fitting and barreling, removing and reinstalling sights. What you will save is any cost related to reloading; small by comparison to the project you contemplate. Not that your project is a bad idea. (I have, as I said, dozens of useless calibered rifles and it hasn't stopped yet) However, if you want to shoot a Carcano cheaply, reloading IS the route to go. Just sayin'!

Curious, does your Dad have a Carcano? (If he doesn't... maybe you need to convince him that he REALLY NEEDS to get one ... wink, wink, hint, hint) :-)

[goodolsavage]

I dont think a could re chamber a carcano to somthing other than a rifle cartridge .. Possible to get it done to .223? I know you a sleeve and everything but would it be possible

[Knight cadet]

My dad has several Carcanos and the only one he really likes is the one in 8 mauser. He just got it and I wish he'd stop talking about it to be truthful. He's looking for a clip for it so he can shoot it. It was enough for him to motivate him to pull out his reloader which has been packed up since he went to Iraq a few years ago, so that's a good thing.

[Romeo 33 Delta]

Whatever we need to do for therapy is a good thing! Hang in there!

[goodolsavage]

i could ever find who made mine, i could never find AY serial number. This is a late carcano, last few years when they never stamped them with much. If anybody can identifie please help!

[SCDeac82]

I've always heard the Oswald rifle referred to as a "6.5mm Mannlicher (sp?) Carcano." Not sure if that more specifically ID's the gun...

JB

[tahunua001]

Mannlicher-carcano is the full name of the carcano family much like Mosin-Nagant. however with the number of rifles that Mannlicher had their hands in designing, Mannlicher Steyr, Mannlicher Schoenaur, ETC, many just drop mannlicher and call them carcanos... shorter too.

[goodolsavage]

You mentioned not having an interest in reloading. I didn't either, until I wanted to shoot my first Carcano ... a 6.5 TS Carbine that my Dad sent back from Italy. That got me started and now I'm into something like 212 different calibers, many of them extremely obsolete (11mm Murata or .276 Enfield) or wildcats (7.62 X 39R or 7.62 X 25R). I just want to make sure you keep that option open ... it's way too much fun and if you keep your wits about you, not even remotely dangerous.



Did you rely say 212 differnt calibers. For the carcano????? Many people say it's a weak design! Some even say they wouldn't even shoot of because they're "dangerous" what's your opinions on that?

[tahunua001]

I think he meant 212 calibers total... which is still pretty impressive... I highly doubt a feller could chamber in 11mm murata without completely rebuilding the entire gun. sounds cool though, I've always been a little curious about the murata and what it's like to shoot one.

[Scorch]

could ever find who made mine, i could never find AY serial number.

That's because that is not a factory serial number. And the manufacturer should be abbreviated on the rear sight.

[goodolsavage]

Originally Posted by Scorch

That's because that is not a factory serial number. And the manufacturer should be abbreviated on the rear sight.

The rear sight is nothing special?

[Jack O'Conner]

The Italian carcano has some undesirable features but it's not as bad as some would say. Let's not forget that it was proven in battles within Greece and northern Africa. The safety is much better than the ever popular Mosin Nagant.

Jack

[tahunua001]

um... I know I've been the recurring anti in this here zombie thread but I believe it was anything but proven in those wars. greece completely flogged the Italian military before Germany stepped in. Etheopia and other african successes were due as much to the fact that the italians were fighting enemies on camels and horseback... a little bit of a technological superiority that went well beyond what small arms were being issued.

as much as I dislike the carcano I will concede that the safety is better than the mosin nagant, if only by a little, and I would hardly call the mosin nagant the greatest battle rifle of the era either. just me though.