If you have to draw.....

new_camper · November 15, 2013, 12:24 PM

In the unfortunate instance that you have to draw your ccw but the threat backs away and the weapon is not used, what is the next step. I would personally imagine that you would want to notify the police immediately, is this correct?

**OldMarksman** · November 15, 2013, 01:01 PM

Yes, and before anyone else does.

campbed · November 15, 2013, 01:04 PM

If you drew your weapon, then a crime was committed. Yes?

Ether branishing by you, or the crime/attempted-crime that caused you to draw.

So... I'd attempt to be the first one to make contact with the police. Might count for something with the LE and DA folks. Especially if the bad guy plays innocent and says YOU are the criminal.

Likely I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Tactical Jackalope · November 15, 2013, 01:27 PM

lol, don't over think yourself right now. Just train. God forbid the time ever comes where you have to act upon that gut wrenching feeling of clearing your cover garment then your holster. You'll know what to do, and may your feet always move and may you be swift. Don't second guess that gut feeling in the here and now. That's my advice. Along with reputable training. I'm taking another class this weekend.

**Spats McGee** · November 15, 2013, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldMarksman

Yes, and before anyone else does.

Absolutely. I'd want to be sure that my name was put on the form in the space labeled "Victim," not "Suspect."

Quote:

Originally Posted by campbed

If you drew your weapon, then a crime was committed. Yes?

Ether branishing by you, or the crime/attempted-crime that caused you to draw.

The former (brandishing) maybe, maybe not. I haven't gone out to read all of the various statutes on the issue, but my hunch is that brandishing occurs when one performs various acts with a weapon without justification. You may still have to explain why you drew your gun, but that doesn't automatically make it a crime.

BarryLee · November 15, 2013, 04:38 PM

Quote:

the threat backs away and the weapon is not used, what is the next step.

I agree that from a legal standpoint law enforcement should be notified that you were the potential victim of a crime. However, from a tactical standpoint the first thing should be to assure you are truly safe and possibly move to an even safer location. Just because someone backs off when they see a gun doesn’t necessarily mean there is no longer a threat.

TailGator · November 15, 2013, 04:38 PM

Spats, if I understand correctly the post you quoted, I think his point is that a crime occurred that made the presentation justified and therefore legal, or else it is likely to be considered brandishing. It may not be exactly true in all circumstances, but it points out that if presentation is justified, it is highly likely that a crime has been committed - the reason for presentation - that needs to be reported.

new_camper · November 15, 2013, 04:42 PM

Yes, I was going for the showing of the firearm was justified.

**Spats McGee** · November 15, 2013, 04:52 PM

I think that's a fair assessment: that brandishing occurs in the absence of justification. IOW, that a crime happened that made (actions that would otherwise be) brandishing necessary.

Deaf Smith · November 15, 2013, 04:52 PM

Quote:

In the unfortunate instance that you have to draw your ccw but the threat backs away and the weapon is not used, what is the next step. I would personally imagine that you would want to notify the police immediately, is this correct?

No.

You tell the guy you want to see him dance.

And you then kind of help him remember how.

Know what I mean?

Deaf

**Spats McGee** · November 15, 2013, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deaf Smith

Quote:

In the unfortunate instance that you have to draw your ccw but the threat backs away and the weapon is not used, what is the next step. I would personally imagine that you would want to notify the police immediately, is this correct?

No.

You tell the guy you want to see him dance.

And you then kind of help him remember how.

Know what I mean?

Deaf

And then you tell the judge, "Deaf Smith said I should do it." That way, maybe you can be cellmates.

Nanuk · November 15, 2013, 05:36 PM

Safely re holster then call 911.

Nick_C_S · November 15, 2013, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Yes, and before anyone else does.

^^ This is what I was taught in CCW training here in California. ^^

Onward Allusion · November 15, 2013, 06:14 PM

If you draw, don't jabber and threaten your assailant with harsh words to make them back down. If you draw and the threat high tails it out without a word, then good - but still call the cops. If you draw and the threat simply stands there menacingly - shoot. You're talking seconds... But as always, you better have a damn good reason to fire.

breakingcontact · November 15, 2013, 07:40 PM

Id break contact and call the Po Po.

Tinner666 · November 15, 2013, 11:02 PM

It's best to call PD, but I'll be the first to admit I've let the BG take off.

As an aside, PD was on the scene twice when I had to draw, before the LEO's as a matter of fact, and the BG was able to leave the scene. ( They were active crime scenes and PD had bigger fish to fry.) I was told to just skedaddle. No reports.

Here's something I've learned over the years having a home and a shop in a high crime area, and YMMV. I always strive to be SA. By doing so, I've either 1/2 drawn, or fully drawn ahead of the BG. If he already has a weapon out, it may already be too late for you. You have to recognize the threat before it's too late. I wish I could articulate it better. I guess it comes down to 'street smarts, or something.

3.Shot.Group. · November 16, 2013, 08:35 PM

Pulling your gun unnecessarily can make a situation worse, because bad guys don't always walk away when you point guns at them.

Example: You're confronted with someone, you pull your gun in hopes he'll walk away, he doesn't walk away; Now what? Are you going to shoot him? For what; Not walking away? That might be hard to explain to the police.

What you think you would do and what you think once you actually do it are seldom the same. Likewise, what you think will happen when you do something, and what actually happens are seldom the same.

3.Shot.Group. · November 16, 2013, 08:47 PM

Quote:

I would personally imagine that you would want to notify the police immediately, is this correct?

Almost. Actually, instead of pulling out your gun, you should pull out your phone and say "I'm calling the police", that will most likely make the guy walk away, and you won't have to escalate the situation into gun play where it could easily become deadly.

new_camper · November 17, 2013, 01:27 AM

Good point. I was trying to simplify for the sake of not typing as much.

Glenn E. Meyer · November 17, 2013, 12:16 PM

Can we stop having silly generalizations about incidents? It is all dependent on the circumstances.

I could easily post that the oncoming BG sees you pull out an expensive phone and says - Oh, Goody and bops you in the noggin for it.

That does happen in major cities.

I suggest that speculators take a good FOF course that deals with urban incidents as compared to suggestions without empirical support.

**Frank Ettin** · November 17, 2013, 04:07 PM

Also note that the OP posited that one had to draw his gun. That is the starting point for the discussion -- a justified threat to use lethal force in self defense.

So let's not waste time on the question of when or if display of a gun is appropriate. For the purposes of this discussion it is.

chokeoloko · November 18, 2013, 08:23 PM

I wouldnt waste my time, tuck it back in and head home

pilpens · November 19, 2013, 02:47 PM

A firearm is a tool of last resort.
If a firearm has been drawn in defense, there must have been a threat of serious bodily harm.
If the threat backs down, then
1. Go to a secure location/ensure the threat is gone.
2. Secure the firearm/reholster.
3. Call the police to report the attempted crime.

Bennyboy · November 19, 2013, 05:43 PM

If I have reason to pull my gun, I'm going to use it. If I'm not justified in using it, I should have never pulled it.

**Spats McGee** · November 19, 2013, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bennyboy

If I have reason to pull my gun, I'm going to use it. If I'm not justified in using it, I should have never pulled it.

If that's your position, then perhaps you should review your state laws on use of deadly force. For an overview of the principles involved, Kleanbore wrote a very good post on the matter here.

November 15, 2013, 12:24 PM	#1
new_camper Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2011 Posts: 128	If you have to draw..... In the unfortunate instance that you have to draw your ccw but the threat backs away and the weapon is not used, what is the next step. I would personally imagine that you would want to notify the police immediately, is this correct?

November 15, 2013, 01:04 PM	#3
campbed Member Join Date: March 8, 2013 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 75	If you drew your weapon, then a crime was committed. Yes? Ether branishing by you, or the crime/attempted-crime that caused you to draw. So... I'd attempt to be the first one to make contact with the police. Might count for something with the LE and DA folks. Especially if the bad guy plays innocent and says YOU are the criminal. Likely I have no idea what I'm talking about. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis SIG P226 MK25 9mm \| SIG 239 9mm \| Beretta Nano SIG M400 Enhanced Black \| Ruger PC9 \| Winchester 9422 Last edited by campbed; November 15, 2013 at 01:10 PM.

November 15, 2013, 04:52 PM	#9
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	I think that's a fair assessment: that brandishing occurs in the absence of justification. IOW, that a crime happened that made (actions that would otherwise be) brandishing necessary. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

November 15, 2013, 05:36 PM	#12
Nanuk Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2005 Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam. Posts: 3,082	Safely re holster then call 911. __________________ Retired Law Enforcement U. S. Army Veteran Armorer My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.

November 15, 2013, 06:14 PM	#14
Onward Allusion Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2009 Location: Back in a Non-Free State Posts: 3,133	If you draw, don't jabber and threaten your assailant with harsh words to make them back down. If you draw and the threat high tails it out without a word, then good - but still call the cops. If you draw and the threat simply stands there menacingly - shoot. You're talking seconds... But as always, you better have a damn good reason to fire. __________________ Simple as ABC . . . Always Be Carrying

November 15, 2013, 01:01 PM	#2
OldMarksman Staff Join Date: June 8, 2008 Posts: 4,022	Yes, and before anyone else does.

November 15, 2013, 01:27 PM	#4
Tactical Jackalope Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 6,429	lol, don't over think yourself right now. Just train. God forbid the time ever comes where you have to act upon that gut wrenching feeling of clearing your cover garment then your holster. You'll know what to do, and may your feet always move and may you be swift. Don't second guess that gut feeling in the here and now. That's my advice. Along with reputable training. I'm taking another class this weekend.

November 15, 2013, 04:38 PM	#7
TailGator Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,787	Spats, if I understand correctly the post you quoted, I think his point is that a crime occurred that made the presentation justified and therefore legal, or else it is likely to be considered brandishing. It may not be exactly true in all circumstances, but it points out that if presentation is justified, it is highly likely that a crime has been committed - the reason for presentation - that needs to be reported.

November 15, 2013, 04:42 PM	#8
new_camper Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2011 Posts: 128	Yes, I was going for the showing of the firearm was justified.

November 15, 2013, 07:40 PM	#15
breakingcontact Junior member Join Date: October 25, 2012 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 736	Re: If you have to draw..... Id break contact and call the Po Po.

November 15, 2013, 11:02 PM	#16
Tinner666 Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2012 Location: Richmond, Va. Posts: 353	It's best to call PD, but I'll be the first to admit I've let the BG take off. As an aside, PD was on the scene twice when I had to draw, before the LEO's as a matter of fact, and the BG was able to leave the scene. ( They were active crime scenes and PD had bigger fish to fry.) I was told to just skedaddle. No reports. Here's something I've learned over the years having a home and a shop in a high crime area, and YMMV. I always strive to be SA. By doing so, I've either 1/2 drawn, or fully drawn ahead of the BG. If he already has a weapon out, it may already be too late for you. You have to recognize the threat before it's too late. I wish I could articulate it better. I guess it comes down to 'street smarts, or something. __________________ Frank-- Member, GoA, NRA-ILA, SAF, NRA Life Member

November 16, 2013, 08:35 PM	#17
3.Shot.Group. Junior member Join Date: June 24, 2013 Posts: 208	Pulling your gun unnecessarily can make a situation worse, because bad guys don't always walk away when you point guns at them. Example: You're confronted with someone, you pull your gun in hopes he'll walk away, he doesn't walk away; Now what? Are you going to shoot him? For what; Not walking away? That might be hard to explain to the police. What you think you would do and what you think once you actually do it are seldom the same. Likewise, what you think will happen when you do something, and what actually happens are seldom the same.

November 17, 2013, 01:27 AM	#19
new_camper Senior Member Join Date: April 16, 2011 Posts: 128	Good point. I was trying to simplify for the sake of not typing as much.

November 17, 2013, 12:16 PM	#20
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Can we stop having silly generalizations about incidents? It is all dependent on the circumstances. I could easily post that the oncoming BG sees you pull out an expensive phone and says - Oh, Goody and bops you in the noggin for it. That does happen in major cities. I suggest that speculators take a good FOF course that deals with urban incidents as compared to suggestions without empirical support. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

November 17, 2013, 04:07 PM	#21
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	Also note that the OP posited that one had to draw his gun. That is the starting point for the discussion -- a justified threat to use lethal force in self defense. So let's not waste time on the question of when or if display of a gun is appropriate. For the purposes of this discussion it is. __________________ "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

November 18, 2013, 08:23 PM	#22
chokeoloko Member Join Date: March 25, 2012 Posts: 24	I wouldnt waste my time, tuck it back in and head home

November 19, 2013, 02:47 PM	#23
pilpens Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2008 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,696	A firearm is a tool of last resort. If a firearm has been drawn in defense, there must have been a threat of serious bodily harm. If the threat backs down, then 1. Go to a secure location/ensure the threat is gone. 2. Secure the firearm/reholster. 3. Call the police to report the attempted crime.

November 19, 2013, 05:43 PM	#24
Bennyboy Member Join Date: November 7, 2013 Posts: 30	If I have reason to pull my gun, I'm going to use it. If I'm not justified in using it, I should have never pulled it.