Concealable pepper spray?

ctdonath · November 22, 1999, 02:44 PM

My employer forbids weapons on company (instant termination), but permits pepper spray IF concealed and never seen. Unfortunatly, NY law prohibits disguised pepper spray cans, and most non-disguised cans are too wide to easily/comfortably conceal. There's not much that adequately satisfies both strict requirements.

Suggestions?

[This message has been edited by ctdonath (edited November 22, 1999).]

SB · November 22, 1999, 05:48 PM

HUH?!

Don't you just love policy-makers?

At best, I can only recommend contacting your lawyer or a NY state certified attorney.

But it doesn't look good does it?

Art Eatman · November 25, 1999, 09:38 PM

Operating on the basis that something is better than nothing, maybe one of the small key-chain type units might be about as good as you can get.

They're small enough to hide in a sock. If you wear your shirt tucked in, and wear opaque material, you can have it loose inside the shirt.

And, consider your tactical situation. I don't know if you park in the company lot, or on the street. However, if being a few minutes early gets you a spot closer to the building, you'll reduce the time you are exposed to BGs.

You might consider carrying a light cane. It's easy to learn how to walk as though it's slightly needed, and to the casual onlooker it provokes a certain amount of sympathy.

FWIW, Art

LawDog · November 26, 1999, 01:04 PM

Aerko Products markets an OC called 'Punch II'. The smallest can is between 2 and three inches tall and fits easily into a pocket.

Defense Technologies also offers a very small can that looks a lot like the Mk VI, only smaller.

I've carried the bigger versions of both products and have never had any complaints, but I've never tried the smaller units.

Best of luck to you.

LawDog

Espresso · November 26, 1999, 01:05 PM

Cane?

Although a cane is an excellent weapon especially if trained well, I think the wrong message is going to be projected. You should make youself appear as a non-target at best. If not, then a hard target who is situationaly aware and will not be an easy mark. A cane only serves to project weakness and vulnerability. Another problem you may or may not experience is the D.A. arguing since you did not have a medical reason to carry a cane, your intent was to make yourself appear as a weak target so you can beat someone. (I know this sounds farfetched, but this is N.Y.)

OTOH, if it is possible for you to fashionably carry it off, you may consider carring a walking stick. Some occupations require attire which will allow you to carry a nice walking stick (not be confused with a crude or inexpensive hiking stick/staff).

SB is quite correct when advises seeking the advice of an attorney. When you do, I suggest you ask local law enforcement or the police officer's union who represents them. These are the attornies who deal with these issues everyday.

P.S. Empty hand defensive training would also be a good idea.

Good luck,
Espresso

Anthony and the 41 Magnum · December 1, 1999, 03:14 AM

I do consulting and often work in buildings in which you aren't suppose to carry a handgun. I carry anyway...just VERY discreetly. Usually I'm in a business casual envirnonment with Dockers and a sports shirt.

Try an ankle holster with a Smith & Wesson J-frame. It's readily accessible in the seated position I'm usually in at the office. When you're leaving the building for the day, go to the men's room and transfer the Smith to your strongside pants pocket for the trek to your car for easier access.

They might make the policy, but it's a hell of a lot easier to find another job than rise from the dead.

A "J" beats pepper spray any day.

------------------
- Anthony (the crazy Italian with a .41 Magnum)

"Civilized people are taught by logic, barbarians by necessity, communities by tradition, and the lesson is inculcated even in wild beasts by nature itself. They learn that they have to defend their own bodies and persons and lives from violence of any and every kind by all the means within their power."

- Marcus Tullius Cicero

TEXAS LAWMAN · December 18, 1999, 08:05 PM

I serve arrest warrants (plain clothes -- usually wear a cheap sports vest to conceal my badge, ID, sidearm, cuffs). I carry the Aerko Punch II (M-3 unit is 4" long X 1.3" diameter) in a vest pocket for discouraging mean dogs/people. Costs $10, is effective, is easily concealed if you wear the right clothing. Seems a suit/sport coat would conceal it in the office environment.

Ossi · December 19, 1999, 07:26 AM

I have an ASP KeyDefender OC spray, and I carry it in my keyring everywhere I go. People who don't know what it is have never asked about it even if they see it. I have had it for a year and a half now, and in that time only a taxidriver who saw it commented on it. He said many taxidrivers here (in Finland) carry one, and that his collegues who have used it have found it effective.

Ossi

November 22, 1999, 02:44 PM	#1
ctdonath Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 1999 Posts: 1,904	My employer forbids weapons on company (instant termination), but permits pepper spray IF concealed and never seen. Unfortunatly, NY law prohibits disguised pepper spray cans, and most non-disguised cans are too wide to easily/comfortably conceal. There's not much that adequately satisfies both strict requirements. Suggestions? [This message has been edited by ctdonath (edited November 22, 1999).]

November 22, 1999, 05:48 PM	#2
SB Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 1998 Posts: 415	HUH?! Don't you just love policy-makers? At best, I can only recommend contacting your lawyer or a NY state certified attorney. But it doesn't look good does it?

November 25, 1999, 09:38 PM	#3
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Operating on the basis that something is better than nothing, maybe one of the small key-chain type units might be about as good as you can get. They're small enough to hide in a sock. If you wear your shirt tucked in, and wear opaque material, you can have it loose inside the shirt. And, consider your tactical situation. I don't know if you park in the company lot, or on the street. However, if being a few minutes early gets you a spot closer to the building, you'll reduce the time you are exposed to BGs. You might consider carrying a light cane. It's easy to learn how to walk as though it's slightly needed, and to the casual onlooker it provokes a certain amount of sympathy. FWIW, Art

November 26, 1999, 01:04 PM	#4
LawDog Staff Emeritus Join Date: September 15, 1999 Location: Where am I going? Why am I in this handbasket? Posts: 4,194	Aerko Products markets an OC called 'Punch II'. The smallest can is between 2 and three inches tall and fits easily into a pocket. Defense Technologies also offers a very small can that looks a lot like the Mk VI, only smaller. I've carried the bigger versions of both products and have never had any complaints, but I've never tried the smaller units. Best of luck to you. LawDog

November 26, 1999, 01:05 PM	#5
Espresso Senior Member Join Date: September 4, 1999 Posts: 119	Cane? Although a cane is an excellent weapon especially if trained well, I think the wrong message is going to be projected. You should make youself appear as a non-target at best. If not, then a hard target who is situationaly aware and will not be an easy mark. A cane only serves to project weakness and vulnerability. Another problem you may or may not experience is the D.A. arguing since you did not have a medical reason to carry a cane, your intent was to make yourself appear as a weak target so you can beat someone. (I know this sounds farfetched, but this is N.Y.) OTOH, if it is possible for you to fashionably carry it off, you may consider carring a walking stick. Some occupations require attire which will allow you to carry a nice walking stick (not be confused with a crude or inexpensive hiking stick/staff). SB is quite correct when advises seeking the advice of an attorney. When you do, I suggest you ask local law enforcement or the police officer's union who represents them. These are the attornies who deal with these issues everyday. P.S. Empty hand defensive training would also be a good idea. Good luck, Espresso

December 1, 1999, 03:14 AM	#6
Anthony and the 41 Magnum Member Join Date: October 7, 1999 Location: Fort Worth, Texas United States Posts: 17	I do consulting and often work in buildings in which you aren't suppose to carry a handgun. I carry anyway...just VERY discreetly. Usually I'm in a business casual envirnonment with Dockers and a sports shirt. Try an ankle holster with a Smith & Wesson J-frame. It's readily accessible in the seated position I'm usually in at the office. When you're leaving the building for the day, go to the men's room and transfer the Smith to your strongside pants pocket for the trek to your car for easier access. They might make the policy, but it's a hell of a lot easier to find another job than rise from the dead. A "J" beats pepper spray any day. ------------------ - Anthony (the crazy Italian with a .41 Magnum) "Civilized people are taught by logic, barbarians by necessity, communities by tradition, and the lesson is inculcated even in wild beasts by nature itself. They learn that they have to defend their own bodies and persons and lives from violence of any and every kind by all the means within their power." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

December 18, 1999, 08:05 PM	#7
TEXAS LAWMAN Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 1999 Posts: 304	I serve arrest warrants (plain clothes -- usually wear a cheap sports vest to conceal my badge, ID, sidearm, cuffs). I carry the Aerko Punch II (M-3 unit is 4" long X 1.3" diameter) in a vest pocket for discouraging mean dogs/people. Costs $10, is effective, is easily concealed if you wear the right clothing. Seems a suit/sport coat would conceal it in the office environment.

December 19, 1999, 07:26 AM	#8
Ossi Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 1999 Location: Finland Posts: 135	I have an ASP KeyDefender OC spray, and I carry it in my keyring everywhere I go. People who don't know what it is have never asked about it even if they see it. I have had it for a year and a half now, and in that time only a taxidriver who saw it commented on it. He said many taxidrivers here (in Finland) carry one, and that his collegues who have used it have found it effective. Ossi