Bullet casting speed

shepherddogs · July 13, 2007, 08:32 PM

I haven't cast bullets in about 25 years and barely remember how. I ordered a Lee Production Pot and a 2 cavity mold for 230 gr hardball 45s. How many bullets per hour should I expect. As I remember it was a little frustrating trying to get the mold heated just right and then things went pretty fast. I saw on other threads that some use multiple molds. I only had one mold. How would you operate more than 1? I figure it will all come back to me after I get started. The equipment will be here 1st of week and I picked up about 100 lbs of wheel weights today. Somebody jog my memory. Also I recall having to smoke the mold?

crowbeaner · July 13, 2007, 08:58 PM

I try to maintain a 3 bullet per minute average with a single cavity mould and the ladle. I figured out that by using the pour spout I spent more time between throws waiting for the sprue to harden. The sprue hardens as soon as the ladle comes away, and I get more bullets per hour with the ladle. AND all of them come out great as long as I maintain my rythm. Using a 2 cav. mould basically doubles the rate, but I seem to get more defective ones unless I pay great attention to the mouth of the ladle to be sure there is no metal hanging on the opening. I'm not out to set any record, I try to get the highest # of good bullets per hour. Any defective ones are a lost cast, and go back in the pot. All you can do is get your rythm down and have someone bring you a cold drink now and then. Enjoy. CB

Rimrod · July 13, 2007, 10:56 PM

I started out with a Lee Production Pot IV and had nothing but trouble with it. It kept clogging up and I couldn't use a ladle with it because of the design. I like their precision melter although it does have a small capacity and runs dry pretty fast. I see they have a Magnum melter which I might have to give a try.

Anyway, to use two moulds you would use one until it starts to get too hot and trade it off for the other one. Or you could just trade them off at a regular interval, this would keep them from getting too hot and not allow the other one to cool off too much.

Lee moulds can be set on the melter as it is heating up and can also be dipped into the lead to heat it. Smoking the mould helps prevent the bullets from sticking in the mould. If you are not using their tumble lube mould you may want a sizer and luber if didn't already order one.

Lee has a clearance page on their web site and once in awhile you can find a real bargain there. http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata...g/surplus.html

shepherddogs · July 13, 2007, 11:33 PM

Thanks for the info. I did order the tumble lube mold and a .452 sizer with lube included. Is it neccessary or preferable to size bullets with this mold? When I was a kid I had some kind of sizer lubricator that somehow forced lube into the grooves as it sized the bullet. Do they still make these? Have they become unneccessary? Thanks for any and all info.

The Tourist · July 14, 2007, 01:54 AM

Don't do 'speed,' do rhythm.

I have a number of different molds. Most are doubles, I have one Hensley and Gibbs (sp?) .401 mold that is a four-ganger.

Sometimes one mold will work with the sprue-cutter a bit from the bottom nozzle, others like lots of heat and need the nozzle to touch. The H&G mold has never thrown a bad bullet, ever.

I fill the pot, let it simmer, add a little solder and go open a new Mountain Dew. I might flux, I might not. I get some fresh ice. I throw a few bullets for tests. Then I find a good radio station for the mood I'm in.

I pour, tap the sprue onto the towel on the table and drop the bullet into the ice/ice water. Now and then I take a sip of Dew.

Before long, 2/3 of the pot is empty, the table is full of sprues and the ice is gone. Then I cull, and re-smelt the sprues along with the rejects.

You continue this for about 30 years. Then if you notice your fingerprints are gone or shiny, you'll have the rhythm down pretty good...

Gunfixr · July 14, 2007, 07:59 AM

Definately rythm over speed. It may take a little bit, but you will find the rythm that works for your mold and pot. Don't be afraid to adjust the temp of the pot, wide open is usually too hot. I have a Production pot IV and love it. I opened up the pour hole a small amount so I could pour big bullets. With a 2-hole .45 LC 250 gr mold, I'm getting a litle over 100 an hour, once I reach my rythm. This is a steel Lyman mould and it holds heat well. When I stop to add lead or flux to the pot, it's still hot enough to continue. With my 650 gr. .58 cal bullets, I only get about 30 an hour. It's a single cavity Lee aluminum mold. Those are monster bullets. When I stop to add lead (often), I need to get the mold back up to temp. Play with the pot temp and you'll find a setting that works smoother than the others. Be left alone by others. Since I'm out in the shed, I usually cast in the winter months, so I don't cook myself. Enjoy.

Rimrod · July 14, 2007, 04:03 PM

Quote:

I did order the tumble lube mold and a .452 sizer with lube included. Is it neccessary or preferable to size bullets with this mold? When I was a kid I had some kind of sizer lubricator that somehow forced lube into the grooves as it sized the bullet. Do they still make these? Have they become unneccessary?

If you are using the Tumble Lube bullet mould you do not need to size it at all. They are designed so all you have to do is put them in a bucket and lube them then load them.

The luber/sizer you mentioned using as a kid are still made by many manufacturers and are still used. You won't need one with your TL mould and it is easier to tumble lube bullets from most moulds, but not all. With the Lee sizer you don't need a different punch for each nose style you want to size. Although with some nose configurations you will want to size them one at a time which can be a real pain. Some casters don't care for the Lee Liquid Alox and stick with the other type of sizer and luber, it's all a personnal choice.

Fluxing is an important step. As the material heats up the different components seperate from each other. Fluxing makes them blend together again. After fluxing and stirring impurities float to the top and can be skimmed off. If you skim without fluxing you will remove the tin that is required for casting good bullets.

The Tourist · July 14, 2007, 06:07 PM

"fluxing and stirring impurities float to the top"

I don't flux a lot, I do skim.

I've noticed that surface dross is grey, blue or black in the morning and yellow and very thin in the afternoon. Obviously the constant heat is smelting more imprities out as the day progresses.

The reason I don't flux more is that I never drain the pot--for two reasons.

One, it seems that ingot lead/linotype melts down faster if some material is left molten.

Two, I have a bottom pur pot and surface impurities will never sink to the bottom third.

Evil Dog · July 14, 2007, 07:46 PM

I use the RCBS bottom pouring pot. My usual rhythm is 2 casts per minute... once everything is heated up that seems to work well without a lot of lead buildup between the bottom of the sprue plate and top face of the mold. I generally prefer a 4 cavity mold and always steel blocks... don't have much use for the aluminum variety.

shepherddogs · July 14, 2007, 08:51 PM

Thanks for the info guys. And Rimrod keep your head down. Friend of mines boy is in a place called Ramadi. He's a fifty cal gunner in Marine Corp. He said its a nasty place.

Evil Dog · July 14, 2007, 11:29 PM

Tourist... What is the purpose of dropping the bullet either into a bucket of water or ice? I will presume that it is to quickly cool the hot bullet. Does this cause it to become harder? Curious.

The Tourist · July 15, 2007, 01:53 AM

"Does this cause it to become harder?"

This is the great debate of our time.

Here are the thoughts. Yes, it will raise the Brinell hardness. No, not always.

If the hardness is to be affected, then certain elements and procedures must be present. I was taught that unless smelted lead contains enough arsenic, antimony and tin (enough to qualify as linotype) then true hardening is not possible. Others believe that a quick chill will, in fact, harden hot cast lead bullets.

According to Ross Seyfried, even if a bullet undergoes the benefit of an improved Brinell ranking, the effect will only last six to nine months.

I look at it this way. Ice is cheap. I like to cull while the pot is smelting a new batch. My fingers have been burned quite enough, thank you.

I have little if any leading in my 629-5 or my Colt Enhanced. I've had numerous 10mm Autos and they didn't lead much either. Whether that is because I kept my bores clean, I sized properly with quality lube, created the perfect jail-house lino or just had dumb luck is the fodder for even more debate.

I will tell you this. I have several coffee cans of cast bullets in my gunroom. Some of the real-deal 429421 bullets are just as silvery as when I cast them +7 years ago.

I believe in the process.

Evil Dog · July 15, 2007, 09:05 AM

For what I do, I've found that culling really isn't necessary. I prefer Lyman 4 cavity molds and once everything is up to temp I have a 100% keep rate. The only calibers I currently cast are 38 Spl and 45 Colt. Both are loaded to moderate levels and almost always fired double action at PPC style events. Pinpoint accuracy isn't a concern. All are round nose designs as they seem easier to function using speedloaders. I use straight wheelweight and haven't noted any leading problem. At the end of any shooting session I normally fire a dozen or so jacketed rounds with the thought it might blow any built up lead out of the bore.... in reality though it probably compresses a micro-layer in.

Rimrod · July 15, 2007, 10:40 AM

Antimony is a good ingredient for heat treating the bullets and most wheel weights have it in them. The water doesn't have to be ice water either. I did an experiment once and cast bullets from the same pot of lead, half were dropped into a bucket of water and the other half were not. I then put one from each variety and put them nose to nose, they were wadcutters, and put them in a vise. The non water one wrapped around the water cooled one. The one that had been dropped in the water didn't even show any deformation from the vise jaws.

shepherddogs, if your referring to my location, it's Ohio. Different war that is long over, for most people.

dutchy · July 15, 2007, 11:04 AM

Okay,

Here are my 2 cents.
Started out casting .38/357 way back in 1980 using a worn out Lee SWC 2 cavity Aluminum mould, with a worn out Lee smelter, using a ladle.

Unfortunately the mould wore out too much and I got a bargain on a RCBS SWC 2 cavity STEEL mould. Am still using it awaiting the day that I'll achieve the Lee's quality bullets.
I use talcum powder every so many bullets to ease extration from the mould.
Once everything is heated up, I put lead ingot on top of the smelters rim to preheat, I easily get 1200 bullets in a days work, including all preparation. I still long for my Lee mould but have acceoted the RCBS quality. The handels are much better in RCBS.
Meantime I bought a new smelter (Lee) which serves me just fine, as long as I keep a screwdriver at hand to immediately correct a stuck pouring valve, which happens once a day.
I use wheelweights only, stopped fluxing, and everything is A Okay.

BTW, The Lee had very shallow greasegrooves. And I seated mine not in the seating groove, but in the top grease groove. Took some fiddlin' for sizing and lubing, but gave supreme accuracy in my 586.

Keep on casting.......

Dutchy

crowbeaner · July 15, 2007, 08:44 PM

I just spent the day working with a new Lyman 452490 2 cavity mould from HE**! It took almost a 3# coffee can full to get the cavities to fill out completely, I had to run the Mag 20 on "9", had to firmly hold the ladle (FORGET the pour spout) tight to the sprue plate, wait for the cavity to fill (the sprue plate had to be as hot as the lead) and FINALLY got the dam*** thing to cast good bullets! WHAT A CHORE! I was so enervated that I skipped lunch, didn't smoke a cigar, and cast about 500 stinking slugs. Man! If I was a drinking man you'd have to buy me a Blue Ribbon! I'm going to heat that progeny of unwed motherhood up again tomorrow just to spite it!

shepherddogs · July 15, 2007, 09:28 PM

Rimrod, there was a guy supposedly in Samarra Iraq? For some reason I was thinking that was you!

Rimrod · July 16, 2007, 01:38 PM

shepherddogs, I wish, of course I'd have to be 20 years younger.

July 13, 2007, 08:32 PM	#1
shepherddogs Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Posts: 1,007	Bullet casting speed I haven't cast bullets in about 25 years and barely remember how. I ordered a Lee Production Pot and a 2 cavity mold for 230 gr hardball 45s. How many bullets per hour should I expect. As I remember it was a little frustrating trying to get the mold heated just right and then things went pretty fast. I saw on other threads that some use multiple molds. I only had one mold. How would you operate more than 1? I figure it will all come back to me after I get started. The equipment will be here 1st of week and I picked up about 100 lbs of wheel weights today. Somebody jog my memory. Also I recall having to smoke the mold?

July 14, 2007, 07:59 AM	#6
Gunfixr Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2007 Location: East Coast, USA Posts: 360	Definately rythm over speed. It may take a little bit, but you will find the rythm that works for your mold and pot. Don't be afraid to adjust the temp of the pot, wide open is usually too hot. I have a Production pot IV and love it. I opened up the pour hole a small amount so I could pour big bullets. With a 2-hole .45 LC 250 gr mold, I'm getting a litle over 100 an hour, once I reach my rythm. This is a steel Lyman mould and it holds heat well. When I stop to add lead or flux to the pot, it's still hot enough to continue. With my 650 gr. .58 cal bullets, I only get about 30 an hour. It's a single cavity Lee aluminum mold. Those are monster bullets. When I stop to add lead (often), I need to get the mold back up to temp. Play with the pot temp and you'll find a setting that works smoother than the others. Be left alone by others. Since I'm out in the shed, I usually cast in the winter months, so I don't cook myself. Enjoy. __________________ NRA Life, Glock Advanced Armorer Gunsmith for Unique Armament Creations, 07/SOT

July 14, 2007, 07:46 PM	#9
Evil Dog Member Join Date: April 30, 2007 Location: So Cal Desert Posts: 88	I use the RCBS bottom pouring pot. My usual rhythm is 2 casts per minute... once everything is heated up that seems to work well without a lot of lead buildup between the bottom of the sprue plate and top face of the mold. I generally prefer a 4 cavity mold and always steel blocks... don't have much use for the aluminum variety. __________________ Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote. - Benjamin Franklin (1759)

July 14, 2007, 11:29 PM	#11
Evil Dog Member Join Date: April 30, 2007 Location: So Cal Desert Posts: 88	Tourist... What is the purpose of dropping the bullet either into a bucket of water or ice? I will presume that it is to quickly cool the hot bullet. Does this cause it to become harder? Curious. __________________ Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote. - Benjamin Franklin (1759)

July 15, 2007, 09:05 AM	#13
Evil Dog Member Join Date: April 30, 2007 Location: So Cal Desert Posts: 88	For what I do, I've found that culling really isn't necessary. I prefer Lyman 4 cavity molds and once everything is up to temp I have a 100% keep rate. The only calibers I currently cast are 38 Spl and 45 Colt. Both are loaded to moderate levels and almost always fired double action at PPC style events. Pinpoint accuracy isn't a concern. All are round nose designs as they seem easier to function using speedloaders. I use straight wheelweight and haven't noted any leading problem. At the end of any shooting session I normally fire a dozen or so jacketed rounds with the thought it might blow any built up lead out of the bore.... in reality though it probably compresses a micro-layer in. __________________ Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well-armed lamb contesting that vote. - Benjamin Franklin (1759)

July 13, 2007, 08:58 PM	#2
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	I try to maintain a 3 bullet per minute average with a single cavity mould and the ladle. I figured out that by using the pour spout I spent more time between throws waiting for the sprue to harden. The sprue hardens as soon as the ladle comes away, and I get more bullets per hour with the ladle. AND all of them come out great as long as I maintain my rythm. Using a 2 cav. mould basically doubles the rate, but I seem to get more defective ones unless I pay great attention to the mouth of the ladle to be sure there is no metal hanging on the opening. I'm not out to set any record, I try to get the highest # of good bullets per hour. Any defective ones are a lost cast, and go back in the pot. All you can do is get your rythm down and have someone bring you a cold drink now and then. Enjoy. CB

July 13, 2007, 10:56 PM	#3
Rimrod Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Behind enemy lines Posts: 1,309	I started out with a Lee Production Pot IV and had nothing but trouble with it. It kept clogging up and I couldn't use a ladle with it because of the design. I like their precision melter although it does have a small capacity and runs dry pretty fast. I see they have a Magnum melter which I might have to give a try. Anyway, to use two moulds you would use one until it starts to get too hot and trade it off for the other one. Or you could just trade them off at a regular interval, this would keep them from getting too hot and not allow the other one to cool off too much. Lee moulds can be set on the melter as it is heating up and can also be dipped into the lead to heat it. Smoking the mould helps prevent the bullets from sticking in the mould. If you are not using their tumble lube mould you may want a sizer and luber if didn't already order one. Lee has a clearance page on their web site and once in awhile you can find a real bargain there. http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/cata...g/surplus.html

July 13, 2007, 11:33 PM	#4
shepherddogs Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Posts: 1,007	Thanks for the info. I did order the tumble lube mold and a .452 sizer with lube included. Is it neccessary or preferable to size bullets with this mold? When I was a kid I had some kind of sizer lubricator that somehow forced lube into the grooves as it sized the bullet. Do they still make these? Have they become unneccessary? Thanks for any and all info.

July 14, 2007, 01:54 AM	#5
The Tourist Junior member Join Date: June 20, 2005 Posts: 2,348	Don't do 'speed,' do rhythm. I have a number of different molds. Most are doubles, I have one Hensley and Gibbs (sp?) .401 mold that is a four-ganger. Sometimes one mold will work with the sprue-cutter a bit from the bottom nozzle, others like lots of heat and need the nozzle to touch. The H&G mold has never thrown a bad bullet, ever. I fill the pot, let it simmer, add a little solder and go open a new Mountain Dew. I might flux, I might not. I get some fresh ice. I throw a few bullets for tests. Then I find a good radio station for the mood I'm in. I pour, tap the sprue onto the towel on the table and drop the bullet into the ice/ice water. Now and then I take a sip of Dew. Before long, 2/3 of the pot is empty, the table is full of sprues and the ice is gone. Then I cull, and re-smelt the sprues along with the rejects. You continue this for about 30 years. Then if you notice your fingerprints are gone or shiny, you'll have the rhythm down pretty good...

July 14, 2007, 06:07 PM	#8
The Tourist Junior member Join Date: June 20, 2005 Posts: 2,348	"fluxing and stirring impurities float to the top" I don't flux a lot, I do skim. I've noticed that surface dross is grey, blue or black in the morning and yellow and very thin in the afternoon. Obviously the constant heat is smelting more imprities out as the day progresses. The reason I don't flux more is that I never drain the pot--for two reasons. One, it seems that ingot lead/linotype melts down faster if some material is left molten. Two, I have a bottom pur pot and surface impurities will never sink to the bottom third.

July 14, 2007, 08:51 PM	#10
shepherddogs Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Posts: 1,007	Thanks for the info guys. And Rimrod keep your head down. Friend of mines boy is in a place called Ramadi. He's a fifty cal gunner in Marine Corp. He said its a nasty place.

July 15, 2007, 01:53 AM	#12
The Tourist Junior member Join Date: June 20, 2005 Posts: 2,348	"Does this cause it to become harder?" This is the great debate of our time. Here are the thoughts. Yes, it will raise the Brinell hardness. No, not always. If the hardness is to be affected, then certain elements and procedures must be present. I was taught that unless smelted lead contains enough arsenic, antimony and tin (enough to qualify as linotype) then true hardening is not possible. Others believe that a quick chill will, in fact, harden hot cast lead bullets. According to Ross Seyfried, even if a bullet undergoes the benefit of an improved Brinell ranking, the effect will only last six to nine months. I look at it this way. Ice is cheap. I like to cull while the pot is smelting a new batch. My fingers have been burned quite enough, thank you. I have little if any leading in my 629-5 or my Colt Enhanced. I've had numerous 10mm Autos and they didn't lead much either. Whether that is because I kept my bores clean, I sized properly with quality lube, created the perfect jail-house lino or just had dumb luck is the fodder for even more debate. I will tell you this. I have several coffee cans of cast bullets in my gunroom. Some of the real-deal 429421 bullets are just as silvery as when I cast them +7 years ago. I believe in the process.

July 15, 2007, 10:40 AM	#14
Rimrod Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Behind enemy lines Posts: 1,309	Antimony is a good ingredient for heat treating the bullets and most wheel weights have it in them. The water doesn't have to be ice water either. I did an experiment once and cast bullets from the same pot of lead, half were dropped into a bucket of water and the other half were not. I then put one from each variety and put them nose to nose, they were wadcutters, and put them in a vise. The non water one wrapped around the water cooled one. The one that had been dropped in the water didn't even show any deformation from the vise jaws. shepherddogs, if your referring to my location, it's Ohio. Different war that is long over, for most people.

July 15, 2007, 11:04 AM	#15
dutchy Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2005 Location: Holland Posts: 199	Okay, Here are my 2 cents. Started out casting .38/357 way back in 1980 using a worn out Lee SWC 2 cavity Aluminum mould, with a worn out Lee smelter, using a ladle. Unfortunately the mould wore out too much and I got a bargain on a RCBS SWC 2 cavity STEEL mould. Am still using it awaiting the day that I'll achieve the Lee's quality bullets. I use talcum powder every so many bullets to ease extration from the mould. Once everything is heated up, I put lead ingot on top of the smelters rim to preheat, I easily get 1200 bullets in a days work, including all preparation. I still long for my Lee mould but have acceoted the RCBS quality. The handels are much better in RCBS. Meantime I bought a new smelter (Lee) which serves me just fine, as long as I keep a screwdriver at hand to immediately correct a stuck pouring valve, which happens once a day. I use wheelweights only, stopped fluxing, and everything is A Okay. BTW, The Lee had very shallow greasegrooves. And I seated mine not in the seating groove, but in the top grease groove. Took some fiddlin' for sizing and lubing, but gave supreme accuracy in my 586. Keep on casting....... Dutchy

July 15, 2007, 08:44 PM	#16
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	I just spent the day working with a new Lyman 452490 2 cavity mould from HE! It took almost a 3# coffee can full to get the cavities to fill out completely, I had to run the Mag 20 on "9", had to firmly hold the ladle (FORGET the pour spout) tight to the sprue plate, wait for the cavity to fill (the sprue plate had to be as hot as the lead) and FINALLY got the dam* thing to cast good bullets! WHAT A CHORE! I was so enervated that I skipped lunch, didn't smoke a cigar, and cast about 500 stinking slugs. Man! If I was a drinking man you'd have to buy me a Blue Ribbon! I'm going to heat that progeny of unwed motherhood up again tomorrow just to spite it!

July 15, 2007, 09:28 PM	#17
shepherddogs Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Posts: 1,007	Rimrod, there was a guy supposedly in Samarra Iraq? For some reason I was thinking that was you!

July 16, 2007, 01:38 PM	#18
Rimrod Senior Member Join Date: October 19, 2005 Location: Behind enemy lines Posts: 1,309	shepherddogs, I wish, of course I'd have to be 20 years younger.