Hazard Fee when shipping powder?

mardanlin · January 30, 2014, 12:28 AM

I bought a fairly large amount of powder from PowderValley and I noticed they charged me a hazard shipping fee, it was like $25 or something. I went to buy a single 1lb bottle of some new powder to try it out and saw I had to pay the same $25 fee, essentially doubling the price of my powder.

Is there a distributor that doesn't charge this fee or is it pretty standard? If so I guess I'll just wait until I need a bigger order.

tangolima · January 30, 2014, 12:34 AM

They used to waive the fee when you buy 32 lb of powder or more. They may not have that any more.

Group buy is the way to lessen the cost of shipping and hazard fee. It is getting difficult to do even that lately, as their choice of in-stock powder is very limited.

-TL

A pause for the COZ · January 30, 2014, 01:01 AM

You have to pay the juice. The shipping companies dont really need to charge this fee.
Since they all do, They keep collecting it. Free money is free money.

When you order on line you have to do the math.
PV is usually cheaper than local, No tax up front. And your time and gas.
Just order and it shows up.
Order enough so that after the shipping and Hazmat its still cheaper than local.

If I want to try a pound or two, I ususally add that to my Primer orders.
Pretty sure they only charge you one hazmat per box sent.

howlnmad · January 30, 2014, 08:47 AM

Yup, one fee for up to 48# I think. Mix and match powder and primers.

k4swb · January 30, 2014, 09:44 AM

Quote:

I bought a fairly large amount of powder from PowderValley and I noticed they charged me a hazard shipping fee, it was like $25 or something. I went to buy a single 1lb bottle of some new powder to try it out and saw I had to pay the same $25 fee, essentially doubling the price of my powder.

Is there a distributor that doesn't charge this fee or is it pretty standard? If so I guess I'll just wait until I need a bigger order.

Powder Valley has to pay this fee to whichever shipper it uses because the shipper charges them.

Stupid shipping rule!

You can't expect PV to lose $25.00 on the sale through no fault of their own.

If you feel like complaining, complain to UPS/Fedex.

mardanlin · January 30, 2014, 12:07 PM

K4swb, I definitely ain't complaining, I was just curious if everyone charged this fee. I don't know anyone who doesn't save $25 if they can, especially if they only need a single 1lb bottle of powder. As I said, I can always just wait until I need a larger order. I'm not sure what caused to you believe I was fussing, but there you have it.

AllenJ · January 30, 2014, 12:23 PM

Everybody I know of charges the Hazmat fee on powder and primers.

Roughedge · January 30, 2014, 05:43 PM

When did you buy a large amount from PV? every time I check they are out of almost everything. I've been waiting for Unique and Varget for months and I would like to try the CFE pistol but thier never in stock.

Swampman1 · January 30, 2014, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Everybody I know of charges the Hazmat fee on powder and primers

Well....sort of. My LGS sells powder and primers, "seemingly" without a HM fee. What I can only assume they do is average out the hazmat fee of a particular shipment, over the entire shipment. That way each person doesn't see the $27.50 fee attached to a purchase of 1K primers for example. Only a small part of the HM fee is included. So this way, I don't have to buy 5K primers and 8 lbs of powder online to justify the fee. If I recall, the IMR 4198 that I use for .223 sells for about $27 per 1 lb container + tax.

floydster · January 30, 2014, 08:21 PM

Since when has Powder Valley had powder??

A pause for the COZ · January 30, 2014, 08:31 PM

Yea I checked today. The powder issue sure is getting bad.
When the scare hit I jumped on Primers hard. Thinking they would be the last to come back.
Ooops I was wrong. Can get primers its the powder thats hard to get.

Whats got me grabbing my wallet is no Surplus powder.
Man I shoot lots and lots of WC844. I have not seen even a kernel of that stuff available for at least two years. I am down to the last 1/2 of my last 8 pound jug.
I am going to cry 1st because I will have to buy H335 at retail. Then I will cry again because most likely there wont even be that available.

schill32 · January 30, 2014, 08:45 PM

yep the call it a hazmat charge from just buying primers or powder or combined up to 50#

reynolds357 · January 30, 2014, 09:57 PM

You sure you can combine powder and primers? Every company I have ever dealt with will charge the fee for each.

jag2 · January 30, 2014, 10:51 PM

PV is the only place I have bought both primers and powder, and you can fill up the box with anything you want. (up to weight restriction) I know Midway catches a lot of flak because their powder ships from someplace else and you will get stuck with 2 hazmat fees. Don't know about any others.
A couple of years ago there was a thread that discussed that the hazmat fee was set to expire in 2014 but I haven't seen anything about it since. If Unclenick sees this maybe he will remember it, I know he contributed to it. Seems like it was fairly well documented but I don't think the fee was ever a law, maybe required by the DOT. Unless one of the major shippers put some effort into stopping it I doubt anything will happen.

found the thread here http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ght=hazmat+fee

mardanlin · January 30, 2014, 11:17 PM

Yes as others have said, you can get powder and primers in one shipment and only pay the fee once, that's how it worked for me. And I ordered my supplies around mid November. They were out of Varget then as well so I got some H335 instead. They were also out of H1000 but other than that they had all my IMR and some other ones. They also only had large rifle magnum primers.

David Bachelder · January 31, 2014, 09:13 AM

HazMat fees are not required by DOT or any other government organization.

The carriers charge the HazMat fees due to added shipping costs. More expensive boxes, more warning stickers, more paper work ..... it all equals more time and time is money.

If you want to complain call FedEx and UPS. That's whose getting the money.

jag2 · January 31, 2014, 10:56 AM

David, check the link I posted and then read the link in Unclenicks post. It is a letter from a director at the DOT and seems to cover the subject, I think. It's in government english which isn't always the same english I speak.

thallub · January 31, 2014, 03:16 PM

QUOTE]HazMat fees are not required by DOT or any other government organization.[/QUOTE]

Bingo!!!

Quote:

David, check the link I posted and then read the link in Unclenicks post. It is a letter from a director at the DOT and seems to cover the subject, I think.

Yep, the letter from Mr. Edward T. Mazzullo, DOT, has this:

Quote:

Q: May UPS set additional conditions or assess a hazmat fee for shipments of "Smokeless powder for small arms, 4.1, NA3 178, I?"

As a common carrier, UPS may set its own conditions or requirements for transporting hazardous materials, so long as those conditions or requirements do not prevent compliance with the HMR, and it may assess a fee for the transportation of hazardous materials. These fees are neither mandated nor regulated by PHMSA.

BTW: Mr. Sanborn of MDM Industries, who asked the questions of DOT, got into hot water after his Black Mag3 plant blew up and killed a few folks. The company is no more.

k4swb · January 31, 2014, 04:19 PM

Quote:

K4swb, I definitely ain't complaining, I was just curious if everyone charged this fee. I don't know anyone who doesn't save $25 if they can, especially if they only need a single 1lb bottle of powder. As I said, I can always just wait until I need a larger order. I'm not sure what caused to you believe I was fussing, but there you have it.

I was just trying to make sure the blame went where it was deserved and not with Powder Valley and other merchants.

David Bachelder · January 31, 2014, 04:50 PM

jag2

I'm not so good with the lingo now days. I used to understand it because I am in the business of explosives. I used to have HazMat training annually, and I did a little HazMat shipping myself, I always hated it because it was a pain in thee *##. I thank the man above that I don't have to do that anymore.

I read but I'm not sure I understood. Is the letter saying DOT requires the HazMat fee and not just the carrier? I know the carrier can charge for the extra work involved in HazMat but I was always under the impression DOT did not actually require it and further they did not profit from the fee collected.

I guess there is where I get confused. At one time I had to have a product of mine evaluated by and independent lab and submitted to DOT for Classification. DOT did not charge me for this service, however the independent lab charged me plenty. I had the opportunity to speak with DOT several times during this process. I was told they can not charge for their services .... ever. DOT is supported by our tax dollars alone.

This was my understanding.

David Bachelder · January 31, 2014, 04:52 PM

jag2

An excellent read, and thanks for the post. I'm going to read it several times and see if I can digest it all.

jag2 · January 31, 2014, 11:37 PM

Yeah, I think I see something new every time I reread it. I THINK what I am reading from thallubs quote is that there are minimum standards that the shippers must meet (which seem to be what we have now) but they are allowed to be even more restrictive if they want.

January 30, 2014, 12:28 AM	#1
mardanlin Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2013 Posts: 208	Hazard Fee when shipping powder? I bought a fairly large amount of powder from PowderValley and I noticed they charged me a hazard shipping fee, it was like $25 or something. I went to buy a single 1lb bottle of some new powder to try it out and saw I had to pay the same $25 fee, essentially doubling the price of my powder. Is there a distributor that doesn't charge this fee or is it pretty standard? If so I guess I'll just wait until I need a bigger order.

January 30, 2014, 12:34 AM	#2
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,816	They used to waive the fee when you buy 32 lb of powder or more. They may not have that any more. Group buy is the way to lessen the cost of shipping and hazard fee. It is getting difficult to do even that lately, as their choice of in-stock powder is very limited. -TL Last edited by tangolima; January 30, 2014 at 10:44 AM.

January 30, 2014, 05:43 PM	#8
Roughedge Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Location: Monroe,NC Posts: 669	When did you buy a large amount from PV? every time I check they are out of almost everything. I've been waiting for Unique and Varget for months and I would like to try the CFE pistol but thier never in stock. __________________ The man that die's with the most stuff win's!

January 30, 2014, 08:45 PM	#12
schill32 Member Join Date: December 5, 2012 Posts: 36	extra charge yep the call it a hazmat charge from just buying primers or powder or combined up to 50# Last edited by schill32; January 30, 2014 at 08:57 PM. Reason: add to

January 30, 2014, 10:51 PM	#14
jag2 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2009 Location: dallas Posts: 773	PV is the only place I have bought both primers and powder, and you can fill up the box with anything you want. (up to weight restriction) I know Midway catches a lot of flak because their powder ships from someplace else and you will get stuck with 2 hazmat fees. Don't know about any others. A couple of years ago there was a thread that discussed that the hazmat fee was set to expire in 2014 but I haven't seen anything about it since. If Unclenick sees this maybe he will remember it, I know he contributed to it. Seems like it was fairly well documented but I don't think the fee was ever a law, maybe required by the DOT. Unless one of the major shippers put some effort into stopping it I doubt anything will happen. found the thread here http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...ght=hazmat+fee Last edited by jag2; January 30, 2014 at 10:56 PM. Reason: found link

January 30, 2014, 01:01 AM	#3
A pause for the COZ Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2012 Location: Braham, Minnesota Posts: 1,314	You have to pay the juice. The shipping companies dont really need to charge this fee. Since they all do, They keep collecting it. Free money is free money. When you order on line you have to do the math. PV is usually cheaper than local, No tax up front. And your time and gas. Just order and it shows up. Order enough so that after the shipping and Hazmat its still cheaper than local. If I want to try a pound or two, I ususally add that to my Primer orders. Pretty sure they only charge you one hazmat per box sent.

January 30, 2014, 08:47 AM	#4
howlnmad Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2009 Location: Harriman Tn Posts: 424	Yup, one fee for up to 48# I think. Mix and match powder and primers.

January 30, 2014, 12:07 PM	#6
mardanlin Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2013 Posts: 208	K4swb, I definitely ain't complaining, I was just curious if everyone charged this fee. I don't know anyone who doesn't save $25 if they can, especially if they only need a single 1lb bottle of powder. As I said, I can always just wait until I need a larger order. I'm not sure what caused to you believe I was fussing, but there you have it.

January 30, 2014, 12:23 PM	#7
AllenJ Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2009 Location: Northern California Posts: 1,766	Everybody I know of charges the Hazmat fee on powder and primers.

January 30, 2014, 08:21 PM	#10
floydster Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2008 Posts: 472	Since when has Powder Valley had powder??

January 30, 2014, 08:31 PM	#11
A pause for the COZ Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2012 Location: Braham, Minnesota Posts: 1,314	Yea I checked today. The powder issue sure is getting bad. When the scare hit I jumped on Primers hard. Thinking they would be the last to come back. Ooops I was wrong. Can get primers its the powder thats hard to get. Whats got me grabbing my wallet is no Surplus powder. Man I shoot lots and lots of WC844. I have not seen even a kernel of that stuff available for at least two years. I am down to the last 1/2 of my last 8 pound jug. I am going to cry 1st because I will have to buy H335 at retail. Then I will cry again because most likely there wont even be that available.

January 30, 2014, 09:57 PM	#13
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	You sure you can combine powder and primers? Every company I have ever dealt with will charge the fee for each.

January 30, 2014, 11:17 PM	#15
mardanlin Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2013 Posts: 208	Yes as others have said, you can get powder and primers in one shipment and only pay the fee once, that's how it worked for me. And I ordered my supplies around mid November. They were out of Varget then as well so I got some H335 instead. They were also out of H1000 but other than that they had all my IMR and some other ones. They also only had large rifle magnum primers.

January 31, 2014, 09:13 AM	#16
David Bachelder Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2011 Location: Trinity, Texas Posts: 636	HazMat fees are not required by DOT or any other government organization. The carriers charge the HazMat fees due to added shipping costs. More expensive boxes, more warning stickers, more paper work ..... it all equals more time and time is money. If you want to complain call FedEx and UPS. That's whose getting the money. __________________ David Bachelder Trinity, Texas I load, 9mm Luger, 38 and 40 S&W, 38 Special, 357Magnum, 45ACP, 45 Colt, 223, 300 AAC, 243 and 30-06

January 31, 2014, 10:56 AM	#17
jag2 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2009 Location: dallas Posts: 773	David, check the link I posted and then read the link in Unclenicks post. It is a letter from a director at the DOT and seems to cover the subject, I think. It's in government english which isn't always the same english I speak.

January 31, 2014, 04:50 PM	#20
David Bachelder Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2011 Location: Trinity, Texas Posts: 636	jag2 I'm not so good with the lingo now days. I used to understand it because I am in the business of explosives. I used to have HazMat training annually, and I did a little HazMat shipping myself, I always hated it because it was a pain in thee ##. I thank the man above that I don't have to do that anymore. I read but I'm not sure I understood. Is the letter saying DOT requires the HazMat fee and not just the carrier? I know the carrier can charge for the extra work involved in HazMat but I was always under the impression DOT did not actually require it and further they did not profit from the fee collected. I guess there is where I get confused. At one time I had to have a product of mine evaluated by and independent lab and submitted to DOT for Classification. DOT did not charge me for this service, however the independent lab charged me plenty. I had the opportunity to speak with DOT several times during this process. I was told they can not charge for their services .... ever. DOT is supported by our tax dollars alone. This was my understanding. __________________ David Bachelder Trinity, Texas I load, 9mm Luger, 38 and 40 S&W, 38 Special, 357Magnum, 45ACP, 45 Colt, 223, 300 AAC, 243 and 30-06 Last edited by David Bachelder; January 31, 2014 at 05:10 PM.*

January 31, 2014, 04:52 PM	#21
David Bachelder Senior Member Join Date: August 23, 2011 Location: Trinity, Texas Posts: 636	jag2 An excellent read, and thanks for the post. I'm going to read it several times and see if I can digest it all. __________________ David Bachelder Trinity, Texas I load, 9mm Luger, 38 and 40 S&W, 38 Special, 357Magnum, 45ACP, 45 Colt, 223, 300 AAC, 243 and 30-06

January 31, 2014, 11:37 PM	#22
jag2 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2009 Location: dallas Posts: 773	Yeah, I think I see something new every time I reread it. I THINK what I am reading from thallubs quote is that there are minimum standards that the shippers must meet (which seem to be what we have now) but they are allowed to be even more restrictive if they want.