The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 24, 2007, 11:59 AM   #1
Spade Cooley
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2007
Posts: 296
Leos making vehicle stops.

I'm a retired Leo and survived 25 years on the streets of a major city. I've made stops of vehicles that are too numerous to count. When I see all the reality shows on TV where policemen are being shot when they appraoch the driver of the vehicle, I cringe at the stupidity of this tactic.

I worked major highways as well as city streets and nearly always approached from the passenger side of the vehilce. You have a much better view and can see the hands of the driver and what he/she is doing. You are out of the moving lane of traffic. I once had a buddy picked off from a drunk driver while standing next to the drivers side of the car on a freeway.

Best of all the driver of the car you stop is off balance and is taken by surprised by this approach. The driver is now at a disadvantage. Because of using this tactic I am fat dumb and happy and enjoying my retirement for the last seventeen years.
Spade Cooley is offline  
Old June 24, 2007, 12:22 PM   #2
Hard Ball
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 1999
Location: California
Posts: 3,925
Tris is very good advice.
__________________
"I swear to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemeis domestic or foreign WHOMSOEVER."
Hard Ball is offline  
Old June 24, 2007, 12:57 PM   #3
armedandsafe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 9, 2005
Location: Moses Lake WA
Posts: 1,001
Quote:
I am fat dumb and happy
Two out of three ain't bad. You, sir, are NOT dumb.

Pops
__________________
Armed and Safe: Not just a theory

If it time to bury them, it is time to dig them up.
Remember, "Behind every blade of grass."
armedandsafe is offline  
Old June 24, 2007, 01:03 PM   #4
RevolverLover
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 22, 2004
Posts: 1,682
What if the vehicle has more than just the driver in it? Did you have the driver hand his DL and insurance to the passenger to give to you?
__________________
All I ever seem to read on this Internet is a bunch of "I heard..." or "I read..." sort of stuff.

"One test = 1,000 expert opinions." -Art Eatman
RevolverLover is offline  
Old June 24, 2007, 01:19 PM   #5
mlandman
Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2007
Location: S. Fla
Posts: 58
...and you can lose weight if you like!
__________________
A refugee from THR
PM9, USPc9, M&P9, M&Pc9...do we see a pattern?
mlandman is offline  
Old June 24, 2007, 02:57 PM   #6
VUPDblue
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 18, 2005
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 1,981
The approach you describe is becoming more and more common. It is being taught especially to the troopers who work the highways around here. I am a big fan of that approach for exactly the reasons you mentioned. I don't really give a rodent's behind if it is uncomfortable for the driver to have to either reach or pass to give me his license and info. Safety is paramount and if there is a way to approach a vehicle that promotes safety, then by all means, DO IT !
__________________
Silencers have NEVER been illegal !
VUPDblue is offline  
Old June 24, 2007, 03:34 PM   #7
RedneckFur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 14, 2007
Location: Central NC
Posts: 1,424
If he wants DL and registration from me, he's still going to have to walk around to the drivers side. No part of a cops body (including his hand) will enter my car until I've seen the warrant.
RedneckFur is offline  
Old June 24, 2007, 03:58 PM   #8
stephen426
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2005
Posts: 3,655
Not to throw a monkey wrench into that tactic, what if the driver pulls over onto the left and median? Do you still approach from the passenger side where you are exposed to traffic?
__________________
The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!
stephen426 is offline  
Old June 24, 2007, 04:12 PM   #9
Spade Cooley
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2007
Posts: 296
The driver pulling to the wrong side can be instructed to move his/her vehicle. If that is not possible, I would rather be exposed to traffic and still approach from the passenger side for better visibility of the driver. I would not, however hang my ass out into moving traffic.

Passing the license across a passenger is no big deal, a distance of about three feet.

And Red Neck has the right idea. Always resist to the max and give the cop a chance to test his tazer gun, mace and the baton on your windows. When it's all over you will have a ticket for everything imaginable and have a few knots on your head to prove your were stopped. If he can't handle you, he will just call for help. You will also be paying to get your car our of impound to the tune of about $300 and be paying a bail bondsman to get you out of jail for resisting arrest. I would say cooperate to the Max but do not give anyone permission to search your car unless they have a warrant. You are compelled by law to hand over your papers. Any hope of getting out of a ticket is lost when you become beligerent.
Spade Cooley is offline  
Old June 24, 2007, 04:17 PM   #10
VUPDblue
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 18, 2005
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 1,981
+1 to Spade. And as for Redneck, if the officer asks you for your license and registration and you don not comply, you could face arrest. Don't ever let an officer search without a warrant even if he asks for your permission and you have nothing to hide, just don't do it. Non compliance as you describe it is not a good idea.
__________________
Silencers have NEVER been illegal !
VUPDblue is offline  
Old June 24, 2007, 04:50 PM   #11
WSM MAGNUM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 30, 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 750
Last month I got stopped for speeding on interstate 68 in Maryland. The state trooper walked up to the passenger side of my truck. As I was looking down getting my license out, I looked back up into my side mirror to see him walking up. But I saw no sign of him. I had my passenger window halfway open and I hear the officer say, may I see your drivers license and registration please. I was startled that he was over there and he caught me off guard. Witch is good for his tactics. I said, sorry if I did not pull over far enough for you to come up to my side. He said, no, this is the side I approach vehicles when I make stops on the interstae.
Looks like he will be fat and happy when he retires too Spade Cooley.

P.S. I had cased shotguns in the back seat of my truck and a case of shotgun shells in the back of the truck bed in plain veiw. I`m surprised he did not ask about the shells back there. Maybe he did not read on the box that they were shotgun shells. Not that I thought I was breaking the law, but in Maryland police would always pursue firearm matters.
__________________
Henry - Life NRA Member, USCCA Shield Member

If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?
WSM MAGNUM is offline  
Old June 24, 2007, 05:45 PM   #12
CyberSEAL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 21, 2005
Posts: 161
Quote:
Any hope of getting out of a ticket is lost when you become beligerent.
While Red Neck seems to be well within his rights, you're right, his approach will not help to get a warning...
CyberSEAL is offline  
Old June 24, 2007, 08:14 PM   #13
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 22,798
Quote:
While Red Neck seems to be well within his rights...
When a police officer asks you for identification, your response is not really optional. I.e. you're not within your rights to say. "You're not getting it until you comply with my instructions, Mr. Police Officer."

If you're handicapped and can't reach the passenger window then you might have a case, otherwise you're just making a lot of trouble for yourself (and a little trouble for the officer).
__________________
Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old June 24, 2007, 08:47 PM   #14
JSandi
Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2004
Location: Nashijuana, TN
Posts: 71
Quote:
No part of a cops body (including his hand) will enter my car until I've seen the warrant.
What are you advocating attacking the cop? Remember stupidity will get you killed.

__________________
You can go over there and give peace a chance, I'll stay here and cover you in case it doesn't work out.
JSandi is offline  
Old June 24, 2007, 09:05 PM   #15
Deaf Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2000
Location: Texican!
Posts: 4,453
RedNeck,

If your car matches the description of a wanted car, he don't need a warrent.

If he sees something in 'plain view' that is illegal, he don't need a warrent.

What is more, since SCOTUS rulled any traffic infraction can be treated as a crime and thus the cops can arrest the person right there, no ticket needed, he can just simply arrest you and then search the car to 'inventory' items or to make sure nothing can harm him.

And that's the law, like it or not.
__________________
“To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides
Deaf Smith is offline  
Old June 24, 2007, 09:09 PM   #16
natjohnb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 18, 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 508
+1 to approaching on the passenger side.

Here in Michigan they passed a law a couple of years ago forcing traffic to slow down and get over a lane if possible when police or emergency vehicles are stopped on the side of the road. This was passed in response to numerous LEO's struck during traffic stops. And while I agree with the law, it doesn't do a whole lot of good due to the fact that more than half of all the people are complete idiots, driving with heads fimly inserted up their a$$.

I drove a wrecker for several years (and I play in traffic now, working for the state) and I cannot count the number of times I have been nearly killed because of some moron.

LEO's watch your back and stay SAFE!
natjohnb is offline  
Old June 25, 2007, 12:44 AM   #17
RedneckFur
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 14, 2007
Location: Central NC
Posts: 1,424
I cant speak for all cops, but I've got my reasons for my actions. In my experience, police tend to be former high school bullies on power trips, or people with some strange notion that they deserve admiration and respect from everone else. A few cops I know personally joined the force just because it put them in a position of power over others.

I've got freinds with criminal records and probation just because a cop bullied a search and scared the guy.

A college friend of mine was arested with 13oz. of pot. ( I do not condone its use, however).. when he went to court, and it was presented for evidence, there was only 7oz. After doing a few weeks in the county jail, my freind told me that the cop winked at him as he was led out of the courtroom. I wonder where those drugs went?... I think I know...

When I was a teen, on several ocasions while driving home from work, I was pulled over by officers who had no real reason to pull me (I always drive the speed limit).. other than I was a young man driving at night. Nearly every time, I was subjected to threats of searches, arrest, etc... And after the cop let off some steam, he'd let me go, never telling why I was pulled.

All in all, I dont trust the guys in blue. And as long as they keep guys on the force more intrested in personal vendetta than protecting and serving, I'm not going to trust them. Note to the cops: Thin the jerks out of your ranks and people would think much better of you.

I know my rights. I've got some of the best lawyers in my area on speed dial. Some I know personally, outside of work. One thing I cant stand is abuse of authority. If some LEO has to prove he's King [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color] of Crap Mountain by breaking my window, roughing me up or tasering me because I politely and respectfully hand him my DL and registration out of the drivers window, and its caught on his camera.....

Well, any Attorney worth his Porshe will see to it that the next badge that cop wears is plastic and says "Mall Security".
RedneckFur is offline  
Old June 25, 2007, 02:05 AM   #18
Hosses
Member
 
Join Date: December 14, 2005
Posts: 35
^^Hey, look, another **** da police hater. Itee-ut. Just because your small town cops didn't like you doesn't mean all cops have the same personae (sorry if that's a big word for you).


Quote:
The driver pulling to the wrong side can be instructed to move his/her vehicle. If that is not possible, I would rather be exposed to traffic and still approach from the passenger side for better visibility of the driver. I would not, however hang my ass out into moving traffic.
The only reason that I have seen officers approaching from the passenger side is for their safety from the traffic coming from behind. Your points are valid, though.
Hosses is offline  
Old June 25, 2007, 02:40 AM   #19
Powderman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 7, 2001
Location: Washington State
Posts: 2,166
Quote:
If he wants DL and registration from me, he's still going to have to walk around to the drivers side.
Uh huh. OK.

Quote:
I know my rights. I've got some of the best lawyers in my area on speed dial.
Sure you do. I hope your retainer is paid up.

If you were in my neck of the woods, I'll tell you now how it would go...

Me, at the passenger window: "Good morning/evening, sir. I'm Officer xxxxx, and I stopped you because I have you locked on radar, exceeding the posted speed limit by 20 mph. I need to see your license, registration and proof of insurance, please."

You: Saying nothing, holding the documents out of the driver's window.

Me: "Sir, would you please hand the documents over here? Thank you."

You: Still saying nothing, holding the documents out the driver's side window.

Me (by this time on radio, asking for backup) "Sir, turn your engine off, hold the documents in your hand, and step from the vehicle."

At this point it's up to you.

If you step from the vehicle, I will immediately place you in handcuffs, inform you that you are being detained and that at this point you are not free to leave. I will then read you the Miranda v. Arizona admonishment, and ask you if you are willing to answer my questions.

If you are cooperative, and tell me that you wanted me to come to the driver's side, I will probably tell you that I did the passenger side approach for my safety. I will then take a look at the lunge area inside your vehicle (see: Chimel v. California) in your zone of control, and if I find nothing, you get the cite for 20 over and you're out of there.

If you are NOT cooperative, then I will tell you that at that point I can articulate reasonable suspicion (see Terry v. Ohio) as well as probable cause, and place you under arrest for the original offense, in addition to obstruction of a public servant. I will search your person, but I won't touch your car--at least until I get K9 there, AND a search warrant.

Now, do you REALLY want to be a jerk, and give me the reasonable suspicion I need for an investigative detention?

Or, just hand me the stupid license, registration, proof of insurance, and probably get a stern 30 second lecture about slowing down, and be on your way?

Your choice, hero. See, I don't have any reason or desire to manufacture a reason to make you miserable. You do it yourself, quite nicely.
__________________
Hiding in plain sight...
Powderman is offline  
Old June 25, 2007, 03:01 AM   #20
BillCA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2004
Location: Silicon Valley, Ca
Posts: 7,117
Before I comment on the passenger-side approach...

Quote:
...because I politely and respectfully hand him my DL and registration out of the drivers window, and its caught on his camera.....
Note to Redneck - cops with dash-cams wear an FM mic to record their activities. What's likely to be seen on the dash-cam tape is the officer on the right asking for papers and you holding 'em out the left side as traffic flashes past. After telling you it's for everyone's safety to hand them to the right and your insistence on him going to the traffic side, a judge is likely to ask you why you insisted on putting the officer in danger instead of cooperating.

We are all adults (well most of us) so when you get pulled over, about 95% of the time you know why. If you start out with the attitude of what crap is this bullnecked pimple-brained bully and ex-jock loser going to pull on me? then you're likely to have a bad encounter if you're hostile or uncooperative.

Re: Passenger-side approach. There are potential pitfalls to this approach too. Last time it was a CHP officer on a freeway in mid-twilight. I pulled over onto the unpaved shoulder area near bushes with my stock 4x4 truck. I lowered the right window and gathered my paperwork. Just after he peered in over the doorsill, I said "I've been expecting you, here's my stuff." while reaching to hand it to him. He took a step forward and.... disappeared! [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]?

Turns out that section of freeway is slightly elevated. Where I stopped is level except for a drainage channel that leads about 8 feet to the right and down the embankment to the streets below. The officer didn't see it, stepped into the channel (about 2' wide by 10" deep) lost his balance and rolled partway down the embankment. After abut 20 seconds, I got out of the truck and found him trying to get up the roadside and gave him a hand. Twisted his ankle pretty good too. I dug out an instant-cold pack and he ended up letting me go so he could go to the hospital to be checked out.
__________________
BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)
BillCA is offline  
Old June 25, 2007, 05:32 AM   #21
vostracker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 416
Traffic stops

Man o man, in the 25years of working the streets, I loved people like Redneck. They added spice to the job.

Powderman: Your right on money.
vostracker is offline  
Old June 25, 2007, 06:07 AM   #22
Gbro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,082
How do you ascertain the vehicle has power windows and locks? My pickup doesn't and i have a difficult time reaching over to roll down the window.
TBS, I know many that couldn't reach the crank.

I was pulled over going through S Dakota on the way hunting, Trooper asked me where i was going and what for and all kinds of none of his business Q's. all of which i answered willingly, Still got the invitation to court for 8 over.
Makes me feel like @%&% for willingly answering questions that were none of his business. Now i have contempt for all Leo's.
So moral is "On a traffic stop, there could be a peckker head on either side of the window"
__________________
Gbro
CGVS
For the message of the Cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, But to us who are being saved, It Is The Power Of God. 1Corinthians 1-18
Gbro is offline  
Old June 25, 2007, 07:25 AM   #23
VUPDblue
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 18, 2005
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 1,981
Quote:
So moral is "On a traffic stop, there could be a peckker head on either side of the window"
That one works from the other side too...
__________________
Silencers have NEVER been illegal !
VUPDblue is offline  
Old June 25, 2007, 08:46 AM   #24
Spade Cooley
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2007
Posts: 296
Granted,
Every Police Dept. has a pecker head or two. But when two pecker heads get together, the one with the badge usually wins. Put the odds in your favor and cooperate. If you have a problem with the way the stop went down, talk to a supervisor. But don't waste any of their time by saying you didn't like the Officers body language or his attitude. Have something specific to say that you thought was improper conduct. Once you have started to jack the officer around, you have issued a challange to him to make a counter move. In the end, you lose.

You could end up going to jail for "No gloves in the glove compartment" or "Carrying a concealed rape tool". Me, I like doing it the easy way and cooperating. If the ticket is C S, go to court and fight it.
Spade Cooley is offline  
Old June 25, 2007, 08:51 AM   #25
Manedwolf
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 28, 2007
Posts: 3,266
Somehow, I get the feeling that Redneck's wakeup call to how reality works is going to come in the form of a closeup examination of asphalt or a cruiser's hood when he tries to "express himself" like that.
Quote:
I've got some of the best lawyers in my area on speed dial.
Ooooo. You can get their answering service and leave a message in the bottom of the box! Not the same thing as retainer, there...
Manedwolf is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2018 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11987 seconds with 10 queries