building a ar pistol - Page 2

Theohazard · December 10, 2016, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rep1954

By the way we aren't talking about Federal law you are.

No, this whole thread is about federal law and ATF regulations. You came in and posted this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by rep1954

You can constuct a registered pistol into a rifle configuration but it is still a pistol.

That is wrong, the ATF would consider it a rifle.

When you posted that comment, the discussion was about ATF regulations. You presented that comment with no mention of it applying to Michigan only. My guess is you didn't realize it was Michigan law when you posted it. Well, now that you know it's only Michigan law, you should also know that it's entirely irrelevant to this conversation.

rep1954 · December 10, 2016, 11:43 PM

Well we will just let you go fishing by yourself. By the way don't eat the blow fish. Wait second thought, oh never mind.

FrankenMauser · December 11, 2016, 06:11 AM

rep1954, you are not being helpful here.

weblance · December 11, 2016, 11:50 AM

OK... I have a relevant question... maybe not to the OPs question, and Im sorry about that, but since were on this subject, and there are several here who know the correct answer...

I just purchased a complete AR lower. I wasn't paying attention when the paperwork was being processed. I assume from what you guys are saying that it was listed as OTHER. I can go back and find out from the dealer. IF this lower is listed as OTHER, then I can assemble it as a pistol...?

Theohazard · December 11, 2016, 11:56 AM

You can assemble it as either a pistol or a rifle. Keep in mind that if you assemble it as a rifle first then it can never be made into a pistol, but if you assemble it as a pistol first then it can always go back and forth between being a rifle and a pistol.

Your dealer should have marked "other" on the 4473, if he marked "handgun" or "long gun" he was wrong.

weblance · December 11, 2016, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theohazard

You can assemble it as either a pistol or a rifle. Keep in mind that if you assemble it as a rifle first then it can never be made into a pistol

...and who is going to know what upper was installed on it first? Did I miss something somewhere?

mavracer · December 11, 2016, 12:26 PM

Quote:

I live in the state of Michigan and have purchased 4 stripped AR15 lowers and each time they were registered as pistols. If I sell one of the lowers in the state of Michigan no matter what configuration it is in at the time I am selling a registered pistol lower. No matter how I configure the lower legal or illegal the lower is still a pistol lower. If I build with a barrel less than 16" and put stock on the buffer tube it is not a SBR it is a illegally configured pistol.

While the lower is still registered as a pistol, while the gun is in rifle configuration, EVEN THE STATE OF MISCHIGAN considers it a rifle for legal purpose as you can not carry said pistol lower concealed while it has a 16" barrel and a stock

AK103K · December 11, 2016, 12:45 PM

Quote:

...and who is going to know what upper was installed on it first? Did I miss something somewhere?

No, you didnt miss anything, and therein lies the rub. How can they ever prove anything? How can you really ever prove anything?

If they were really worried about it, I would think they would want you to register it as you intend to use it, and then it is what it is.

But you know how they like it.....confusing as hell and interpreted as they want, when they see fit, or until they change it again, with a dash more confusion and vagueness.

I think the immortal words of Alan Greenspan sum things up nicely.... "I know you think you understand what you thought I said but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant"

Theohazard · December 11, 2016, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by weblance

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theohazard

You can assemble it as either a pistol or a rifle. Keep in mind that if you assemble it as a rifle first then it can never be made into a pistol

...and who is going to know what upper was installed on it first?

Probably nobody, not unless you tell them. It's a pretty hard thing to enforce, that's for sure.

On a side note, it's not about the upper or the barrel length; the length of the barrel doesn't make it into a pistol; its all about whether there's a stock on it or not. If it's assembled with a stock, then it's either a regular rifle or a short barrel rifle, depending on the barre length. But if you first assemble it without a stock, then it's a pistol regardless of barrel length (as long as there's no vertical foregrip installed).

AK103K · December 11, 2016, 01:27 PM

Stock or not, its not a rifle or a pistol without the upper.

A stocked lower isnt a rifle, nor is a lower with a pistol tube on it a pistol either.

Theohazard · December 11, 2016, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AK103K

Stock or not, its not a rifle or a pistol without the upper.

A stocked lower isnt a rifle, nor is a lower with a pistol tube on it a pistol either.

Correct. Sorry, I was apparently unclear in my previous post; I meant it doesn't matter what kind of upper you install on it when you're making a pistol. But yes, you do need some kind of upper and barrel, otherwise it's just a receiver.

Ibmikey · January 9, 2017, 09:10 PM

This is such a simple issue if one will bother to read the regs, i completed a 4473 on a bare lower, it was listed under the "other" classification. I then stamped the interior with "Pistol" which is not required by any regulatory agency. The upper was stamped with the last four of the S/N on the tang, if a question ever arose as to the origin of the weapon i can point to the stampings and attest to the fact that the receiver was first ( and maybe only) used as a pistol.
I sure am glad ATF has so many rules and opinions to keep us good guys good.

December 11, 2016, 06:11 AM	#28
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	rep1954, you are not being helpful here. __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

December 11, 2016, 11:56 AM	#30
Theohazard Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2012 Location: Western PA Posts: 3,829	You can assemble it as either a pistol or a rifle. Keep in mind that if you assemble it as a rifle first then it can never be made into a pistol, but if you assemble it as a pistol first then it can always go back and forth between being a rifle and a pistol. Your dealer should have marked "other" on the 4473, if he marked "handgun" or "long gun" he was wrong. __________________ 0331: "Accuracy by volume."

December 10, 2016, 11:43 PM	#27
rep1954 Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Location: Mid Western Michigan Posts: 1,187	Well we will just let you go fishing by yourself. By the way don't eat the blow fish. Wait second thought, oh never mind.

December 11, 2016, 11:50 AM	#29
weblance Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2012 Posts: 1,229	OK... I have a relevant question... maybe not to the OPs question, and Im sorry about that, but since were on this subject, and there are several here who know the correct answer... I just purchased a complete AR lower. I wasn't paying attention when the paperwork was being processed. I assume from what you guys are saying that it was listed as OTHER. I can go back and find out from the dealer. IF this lower is listed as OTHER, then I can assemble it as a pistol...?

December 11, 2016, 01:27 PM	#35
AK103K Senior Member Join Date: May 1, 2001 Posts: 10,223	Stock or not, its not a rifle or a pistol without the upper. A stocked lower isnt a rifle, nor is a lower with a pistol tube on it a pistol either.

January 9, 2017, 09:10 PM	#37
Ibmikey Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2013 Location: Now relocated to Texas Posts: 2,943	This is such a simple issue if one will bother to read the regs, i completed a 4473 on a bare lower, it was listed under the "other" classification. I then stamped the interior with "Pistol" which is not required by any regulatory agency. The upper was stamped with the last four of the S/N on the tang, if a question ever arose as to the origin of the weapon i can point to the stampings and attest to the fact that the receiver was first ( and maybe only) used as a pistol. I sure am glad ATF has so many rules and opinions to keep us good guys good.