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July 7, 2010, 11:55 AM | #1 |
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Newbie reloader - brass question!
What is the difference between military brass and regular commercial brass? Also, is "match" brass any better than other brass except for price?
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July 7, 2010, 11:58 AM | #2 |
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Depends on what caliber. 7.62 mil brass has lower internal capacity whereas 5.56 brass has a slightly larger internal capacity.
Mil will have a primer crimp to deal with, but most of the commercial brass is coming this way now for whatever reason. |
July 7, 2010, 12:53 PM | #3 |
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As a new reloader, the only difference you will see immediately is that you cannot just punch out primers from military brass and seat new ones.
Military brass has the primer "crimped" in. While you can punch it out past the crimp, you cannot seat a new primer until the crimp has been removed. There are many tools available to remove the military crimp, perhaps the simplest of which (other than a pocket knife) is the case mouth deburring tool which you need for finishing the case mouth after trimming back to the recommended OAL when the case gets too long. Check out the many threads on this forum and the THR forum for much discussion re removing the military crimp. Other than that, there are minor differences among thickness, capacities, etc. of military versus commercial brass, but as long as you follow the reloading manuals and start with suggested "start" loads and work up carefully, you don't have to worry about the small differences. |
July 7, 2010, 01:36 PM | #4 |
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as far as the "match" thing... to me, match cases should all weigh the same, have the same measured capacity, have uniform & deburred primer flash holes...
if you have the time, you can do all this even with military brass ( my father in law before he died, had more time than money ) & sorted 1000's of military 223 cases by head stamp, case weight, case capacity, etc... he did this, not because he shot in matches, but because he so enjoyed shooting prairie dogs... he would often go out for a whole week, & on a good week, used to shoot over 1000 rounds
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July 7, 2010, 01:54 PM | #5 |
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some "military brass" is bedan primed as well ....and you cannot reload that brass.
Bedan primed brass has 2 small flash holes in the base of the brass ...and a conventional depriming die ( with one punch) will not be able to deprime that brass... there are ways to reload "military brass" but usually its not worth the trouble ... |
July 7, 2010, 02:44 PM | #6 |
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BigJimP makes a great point that all of our above replies do not mention.
Tell us what you are planning to reload -- what cartridge you are talking about. All of the replies above BigJimP are assuming you are wanting to reload a cartridge that has a Boxer primer. If you are wanting to reload a cartridge that normally has a Berdan primer, all bets are off as to our advice. |
July 7, 2010, 02:57 PM | #7 |
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1. All Military brass has a crimp around the primer. You need a special punch to remove the primer the first time as they are in there so tight the casings will break primer punches during normal resizing. Once the primer has been removed, you need to cut out the crimp. There are several tools available to do that.
2. Cartridge cases have thicker walls, therefore less case capacity, so loads need to be reduced a bit to avoid excessive chamber pressures. Since the casings are once fired in large chambers, they require Full Length resizing the first time. 3. Much foreign ammo uses/used corrosive primers. US ammo prior to 1952 also used corrosive primers.
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July 7, 2010, 03:06 PM | #8 |
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.308 is the caliber
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July 7, 2010, 03:46 PM | #9 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
Any regular reloading size/decap die will punch out military Boxer primers. A special punch is not needed. If Kevin has broken a punch, he was trying to punch out Berdan primers. If you have questions as to the type of primer, take flashlight and look down the neck of the case so you can see the inside of the base. If there are two small holes in the case head (base) as seen from the inside, that is a Berdan primer and cannot be reloaded. It will break your punch. If there is only one hole, it is Boxer primed and a regular reloading size/decap Die will punch the primer out. Yes, Lee and others make a special die or manual punch to knock out Boxer primers, but in 50 years of reloading, I have never found a plain vanilla reloading die that will not punch out a primer on a military crimped Boxer primed case. Kevin is generally correct re US non-corrosive dates. If you want the exact dates you can Goggle for exact dates as to which cartridge and which arsenal changed over as far at the month/year. In the case of foreign ammo, most of the ammo made since 1990 or so in any foreign country is non-corrosive. Any "corrosive" ammo is safe to shoot as long as you clean within 24 hours with a solution of 1/3 Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2), 1/3 Alcohol (any version), and 1/3 Murphy's Oil Soap. Mix the three, wet patch, and scrub three times. Repeat, and the wipe with clean patch and then use any regular cleaning product (Hoppe's, Break Free, etc.) to finish. |
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July 7, 2010, 04:34 PM | #10 |
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Ditto what mkl said. Talking handgun ammo only, I've never had a problem punching out miitary primers with a standard RCBS die. And, I've never had a problem priming military brass using a Lee Autoprime hand primer tool. And I only have 22 years experience reloading. Don't understand all the sturm und drang over primers. I use the cheapest ones I can find. They go in just fine and they always go bang in all my guns.
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July 7, 2010, 05:05 PM | #11 |
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The OP is talking about reloading .308 .... after his last post ..../and I don't load .308 for rifles - so I'll let others advise him...( and get into case trimming, etc )
but in general, even on handgun cases .... In 9mm - lately, I have run into FC NT (non toxic primers) brass ( where the primer cup is tapered ) ...and some surplus czech military brass cases ( that someone was shooting at my indoor range) that are bedan primed. The NT (non toxic) cases / you would have to ream out the primer pocket to get a primer to seat without it being mangled ....and the Bedan primed military cases have 2 small flash holes in the base ... The 9mm NT cases were a surprise to me ...I had not seen any of them around before ....not to mention where the old czech military junk came from ... I just toss them both out - rather than deal with either one of them. |
July 7, 2010, 06:46 PM | #12 |
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Yep, NT cases are generally not reloadable. Berdan cases are also generally not relaodable. There used to be an importer of Berdan primers but I don't think they've been imported in over 10 years.
I would suggest if you want to deprime USGI military cases you consider getting the RCBS Universal Depriming die for 30 caliber. It has a heavier pin and in my opinion works better, faster, and lasts longer. I actually prefer USGI cases as I think I get more reloads and it's a lot less expensive than new brass. I don't understand why some guys complain that the GI cases are too hard to reload. I suppose they had some kind of bad experience along the line, probably with Berdan primed brass. But deprime and swage the pocket once and you're ready to go. |
July 7, 2010, 06:49 PM | #13 | |
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Quote:
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