Gunsmithing vs Johnsmithing

[SIGSHR]

Curious to know how our resident experts define the difference between
gunsmithing-what those who know what they are doing do-and johnsmithing-what those of us who think we know what we're doing do-and what operations they think the hobbyist should NEVER attempt.

[Wildalaska]

Hobbyists should not use power tools.

Around here we have a line item"Unauthorized use of Power tools"...$50

If I even pick up a Dremel, the gunsmiths start shooting

WildimtotallyaboobsterAlaska ™

[Eghad]

Even if the parts say drop in.... I usually let the gunsmith do it and check it.

[James K]

Things can get blurry. There are some things some gunsmiths won't even try, while some talented amateurs do them. IMHO, most "johnsmiths" don't get into trouble trying to fix guns, they get into trouble taking them apart just for the he!! of it. Then they lose or break parts trying to reassemble the gun.

Among the things I have seen most often messed up by "johnsmiths": Drilling and tapping for a scope, bolt bending, trying to drive out a barrel obstruction (often a boresnake) and making things a lot worse, trying to shoot out a bore obstruction with a live round, trying to pound out a shotgun barrel bulge, trying to crown a barrel, cutting through case hardening doing a "trigger job", failing to understand the need for sear reset when doing same on a rifle, beating on a slide to "tighten it", installing a buttplate or recoil pad.

Oh, and I almost forgot the destruction caused by folks who believe the ads saying, "All you have to do is polish the gun and use our cold blue." I have seen guns worth hundreds or thousands made into guns worth $20 by that method.

Jim

[Scorch]

Rules gunsmiths live by:
1- Put your hammers and big files in a drawer and lock it. You probably won't need them.
2- If you have to force it, you're doing it wrong.
3- If the customer disassembled it then brought it in, it should be charged by the hour.
4- Cold blue is not bluing.
5- Cleaning guns must be very difficult, because a lot of people bring the job to a pro.
6- Household chemicals and guns often do not mix.
7- WD40 and guns do not mix.
8- Drop in parts don't.
9- Parts with no fitting required will require fitting.
10- Customers who perform their own trigger jobs keep gunsmiths and lawyers in business.
11- Hot reloads ruin more guns than mild reloads.
12- Fixing customer repairs usually costs more than the original repair would have.

and so on.

[James K]

I do take exception to some ideas expressed here.

First, there is nothing wrong with a Dremel tool. It is a fine tool for those who have taken the trouble to learn to use it, and it can save hours of work. The idea expressed by one self-acclaimed gunsmith that he would shoot anyone he saw using a Dremel on a gun is not the view of a craftsman, it is the view of a fool.

Second, there is nothing wrong with files, stones, hammers, etc. They are tools. While big files and large hammers are not used often, they are used and when they are needed there is often no substitute.

In brief, tools are fine; some tool users are idiots. Like guns themselves, the trouble arises not from the object but from some of the people who use it.


Jim

[ZeroJunk]

This really is a good question. I have used at least a dozen gunsmiths over the years. Some were much more capable than others. Even now, I may go to one for a trigger job, another for a reblue, another for a rebarrel or build.
Unfortunately, I have had some sloppy work done and had to learn from experience. I'm not sure how I could have found out beforehand since they were all recommended by somebody.

I think you should feel free to work on your own stuff as long as you can't cause an accidental discharge or some catastrophic failure. If you don't know what can cause those, leave it alone.

[Wapiti]

errr,,What exactly is wrong with the WD40 I've been using for 38 years?

[Bill DeShivs]

Nothing is wrong with WD40.

[10-96]

WD40? It turns into that brown varnish/laquer looking stuff.

[Wildalaska]

Like guns themselves, the trouble arises not from the object but from some of the people who use it.

And blow torches! You ought to see me with a torch...as soon as I grab one the Fire Department waits outside.

Or the old saying, if a little Loctite is good, a lot is better!!!!

WildgimmeacutoffwheeelAlaska TM

[Bill DeShivs]

"WD40? It turns into that brown varnish/laquer looking stuff."
No, that is all the old oil that WD 40 dissolves and breaks loose. The WD 40 evaporates, leaving behind the crud it dissolved. If you thoroughly flush with WD 40, and wipe it off you won't have any problems.

[Bill DeShivs]

Or "Bubbasmithing"-
I got me one o' them there bluing kits at Walmart, and some 150 grit emory paper from my cuzin the plummer. I sanded all that old blue offa my gun and put that cold blue on. Man, it looks brand new! Now I'm gonna borry my nayber's belt sander and refinish my stock. Got 3 cans of that polly yer ethane to spray on it. It oughta be real shiny and worth a fortune when I git threw!

[JohnKSa]

The most common difference is that a gunsmith knows when to stop before he gets out of his depth while an amateur usually has to find out the hard way.

[BillCA]

You know he's not a gunsmith when....

- He says it'll just take a minute to unscrew your shotgun barrel.
- Then he says, "where's that dang pipe wrench anyhow?"
- He uses a drill to remove front sight pins.
- You see him using a 12" screwdriver on sideplate screws
- He tells you that 11-degree vertical and 18-degree lateral face on the muzzle is his special "minute of angle" crown job... on your snubby.
- If he ever says "Now don't you worry..."
- His frontstrap stipling tool is a meat tenderizer.
- He thinks it's pronounced milly-meters
- If he refers to a Beretta as one of them Eye-talyan jobs.

[10-96]

Bill, I'm gonna take your word on the WD40 thing, but that don't mean there won't be that little itchy wonderment back there in the right/rear brain lobe- just above and behind my right ear. I apprenticed a number of years with a gunsmith and specifically remember a couple (3) old far... er, elderly gents who brought in, at different times, 2 old shotguns and a 219 Zipper levergun that had the varnish looking stuff and they swore they never used anything BUT WD40. I guess it was my assumption that it was the WD40 what done it.

As for the original post. I KNOW I'm not a Gunsmith- I don't have certification, but I do have enough sense to look one up for something out of my ability. Kind of like saying- I weld real well with a number of different methods and materials... but I'm not a Welder.

[James K]

Hay, bill da shives,

I no who yur taking abot and i thing ur bean nastie, besides that there gun wasnt no good no how befour i restort it, it had sum marks on it that wuz all wrong dam fools dint even no how to spel, everyun nos patterson is spelt wit too tees.

Bubba

[ZeroJunk]

I'm confused now. The most talented gunsmith I ever used talked just like that.

[Alleykat]

I'd never do any machining, but can fit a 1911 bushing; have fit a couple of 1911 barrels to slides. No gunsmithing required to adjust many rifle triggers, such as the Remmy 700. However, I'd have to opine that many of us whodontwritelikethis are competent to use a Dremel for polishing, etc.

alleynotagunstoreclerkcat

[Bill DeShivs]

Mr. Keen'un
"Em Pattersons was good Colts. 'Specially them ones with the partridge sights!

[Wildalaska]

However, I'd have to opine that many of us whodontwritelikethis are competent to use a Dremel for polishing, etc.

My point is now made. Folks dont know their limitations.

Polish away, we are here to fixy for you not if, but when, ya screw up

WildeveryoneisanexpertAlaska ™

[ZeroJunk]

While I'm thinking about it. If you need to remove a broken screw a Dremel tool with a diamond burr is a good way to get a center for your bit.

[Harry Bonar]

Sirs:
Yesterday I couldn't spell "gunsmith" - today I are one!

[grymster2007]

I spent 25 years as a machinist and know how to make all kinds of stuff using anything from a jewelers lathe, up to massive CNC horizontal boring mills and everything in between…. well, almost everything. So while I know how to use power tools, I’m not a gunsmith; not by a long shot!

Understanding the subtle interactions of the internal mechanisms for a wide variety guns, is in my mind at least as important as being able to remove exactly 2 microns of material from a trigger sear or some such. I hold good gunsmiths in very high regard indeed.

I plan to play around with some guns when I retire and while I might know machining pretty well, I’ll probably have to settle for being a bubbasmith.

[Wildalaska]

If you need to remove a broken screw a Dremel tool with a diamond burr is a good way to get a center for your bit.

Especially if you hold the dremel in one hand and the gun in the other

WildyikesAlaska ™