About to buy an Ingram MAC 10/9, done some research, but want a little encouragement

LoneStarWings · August 19, 2009, 10:14 PM

Hi, this is my first NFA purchase so I have some basic first time questions.

I've reserached Mac's for some time now. I'm well aware of their shortcomings but would just like a fun gun that shoots 9mm. I need to know if anyone has experience with this dealer: http://www.dndguns.com/m109.htm and if this deal looks like it's on the up & up. Please don't buy them all

I've downloaded quicken willmaker and made an revocable living trust. I plan on getting it notarized next week. Aside from from paying them, getting the weapon shipped to a dealer in my state, paying the tax, and filling out the form 4, is there really anything else to it?

Thanks!

jmorris · August 19, 2009, 10:53 PM

an m10 45 can shoot 9mm with a conversion but an m10 9 can't go 45.

LoneStarWings · August 19, 2009, 11:07 PM

That's all right, I don't have any .45's and don't really plan too.....plus thinking of the cost dumping a mag of .45 ACP is somewhat disturbing. I know that sounds rediculous in the context of spending $3500+ on a weapon, but still.....

I'm also thinking of putting a max 10 upper and some decent optics on it possibly.

armsmaster270 · August 20, 2009, 01:25 AM

I had one of the Semi autoM-10 9mm's played with it for awhile and the sear broke and it went full auto. used it in the full auto mode for awhile then took a sawsall to the upper and lower threw it in the garbage 4 different weeks to ge rid of the parts. Strickly a spray and pray gun wouldn't have another glad it only cost $399.00 at the time.

jmorris · August 20, 2009, 09:23 AM

Just now went to your link, as you may know from your research, Texas Mac’s are the least desirable Mac’s there are. I picked up a NIB powder springs M10/9 to celebrate our new president last year for $2800 off of the classifieds at subguns.com.

FWIW The powder springs come with a much better adjustable front sight.

LoneStarWings · August 20, 2009, 01:29 PM

No, I didn't know that texas ones were the worst, thinks for the heads up though. I think I'd like to put one of the MAX 10 uppers on it, although I realize the wait time on those is months.

With that said, does it make a difference that these were just Texas recievers that SWD purchased and welded? It sounds as if that increases their quality somewhat, if true.

In any event thanks for the replies, and I appreciate all the info!

Mike703 · August 20, 2009, 02:16 PM

five years ago. He held it until my dealer (different state) contacted him them transferred it quickly. No problems. When it arrived it looked just like it did in the pictures.

jmorris · August 21, 2009, 09:18 AM

It will be welded better but won’t use the same magazines that the powder springs, RPB or early SWD M10/9’s used. They were all double feed design and the SWD “over stamp” Texas Mac’s used single feed mags. There are other differences between them, the PS Mac’s have an internal latch for the take down pin and the bolt is milled much lighter thus increasing the rate of fire (for better or worse).

Joat · August 21, 2009, 11:32 AM

LSW - Be careful of using Quicken to make your RLT. In some instances ATF has denied transfer based on an invalid trust. Please have your RLT reviewed by a competent legal adviser who is familiar with NFA regulations and using a trust to acquire NFA items.

It costs between $300 and $650 (in Texas) to get a NFA Trust drawn up that is valid here in the Lone Star State by an attorney familiar with the requirements. IMO this is a small, one time, price to pay to get it right the first time. Especially with the other costs involved.
This blog is by a NFA attorney and it points out several of the issues with the Quicken and Legal Zoom trusts. Also google David Goldman, who also blogs about NFA trusts and is referenced in Prince Law's blog several times.

Joat
YMMV and I am not trying to start the; lawyers are money grubbing, rat bastards ..."why should I pay them to do something that I can do with a $30 program?" debate.

If you are interested, I have contact information for a TX attorney that does NFA Trusts. IM or e-mail me for contact information.

jmorris · August 22, 2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

LSW - Be careful of using Quicken to make your RLT. In some instances ATF has denied transfer based on an invalid trust. Please have your RLT reviewed by a competent legal adviser who is familiar with NFA regulations and using a trust to acquire NFA items.

I did the will maker trust then had it looked over (by two in the family on the TX bar) no changes made. I wouldn't pay $300-650 for one, as pointed out the NFA will put a hold on the transfer and tell you what needs to be fixed if it's not right, adding a week or two to your already 3-4 month wait. I have never heard of anyone being denied because paper work needed to be fixed.

PTK · August 22, 2009, 11:10 AM

I still have yet to find any cases where anyone has been inconvenienced in any way other than a slight delay due to a faulty trust.

At all.

LoneStarWings · August 22, 2009, 09:22 PM

Could anyone go into a little more detail on the advantages of the double feed bolt on a MAC? Do the double feed bolts use "double stack" mags similair to a pistol, or is does it mean something else?

PTK · August 22, 2009, 10:31 PM

That's exactly what it means. Double-stack mags are easier to load, more reliable, and much easier to load. Also easier to load.

jmorris · August 23, 2009, 09:49 AM

delete:I uploaded a photo

jmorris · August 23, 2009, 10:09 AM

All of the magazines are “double stack” double feed is different. A Glock (or most any other pistol that stagers the rounds in two columns) uses a double stack single feed magazine. An AR-15 on the other hand uses a double stack double feed magazine. You can tell the difference when you load them push straight down or push down and slide in and in the case of the M10-9 when you go to buy more of them.

The two on the left are double feed one with an even number of rounds the other odd. The one on the right is single feed.

PTK · August 23, 2009, 11:01 AM

I had a moment, there.

I meant double-feed, not double-stack.

August 19, 2009, 10:14 PM	#1
LoneStarWings Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2009 Location: TX Posts: 213	About to buy an Ingram MAC 10/9, done some research, but want a little encouragement Hi, this is my first NFA purchase so I have some basic first time questions. I've reserached Mac's for some time now. I'm well aware of their shortcomings but would just like a fun gun that shoots 9mm. I need to know if anyone has experience with this dealer: http://www.dndguns.com/m109.htm and if this deal looks like it's on the up & up. Please don't buy them all I've downloaded quicken willmaker and made an revocable living trust. I plan on getting it notarized next week. Aside from from paying them, getting the weapon shipped to a dealer in my state, paying the tax, and filling out the form 4, is there really anything else to it? Thanks!

August 20, 2009, 01:25 AM	#4
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	I had one of the Semi autoM-10 9mm's played with it for awhile and the sear broke and it went full auto. used it in the full auto mode for awhile then took a sawsall to the upper and lower threw it in the garbage 4 different weeks to ge rid of the parts. Strickly a spray and pray gun wouldn't have another glad it only cost $399.00 at the time. __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.

August 20, 2009, 02:16 PM	#7
Mike703 Junior Member Join Date: December 21, 2006 Posts: 14	Yup, bought an M16 from D&D guns about ... five years ago. He held it until my dealer (different state) contacted him them transferred it quickly. No problems. When it arrived it looked just like it did in the pictures.

August 21, 2009, 11:32 AM	#9
Joat Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2008 Location: Dayton, TX Posts: 383	LSW - Be careful of using Quicken to make your RLT. In some instances ATF has denied transfer based on an invalid trust. Please have your RLT reviewed by a competent legal adviser who is familiar with NFA regulations and using a trust to acquire NFA items. It costs between $300 and $650 (in Texas) to get a NFA Trust drawn up that is valid here in the Lone Star State by an attorney familiar with the requirements. IMO this is a small, one time, price to pay to get it right the first time. Especially with the other costs involved. This blog is by a NFA attorney and it points out several of the issues with the Quicken and Legal Zoom trusts. Also google David Goldman, who also blogs about NFA trusts and is referenced in Prince Law's blog several times. Joat YMMV and I am not trying to start the; lawyers are money grubbing, rat bastards ..."why should I pay them to do something that I can do with a $30 program?" debate. If you are interested, I have contact information for a TX attorney that does NFA Trusts. IM or e-mail me for contact information. __________________ All things being equal, fat people use more soap. (I know I am one.) High speed, low drag does not even come close to describing ME.

August 23, 2009, 09:49 AM	#14
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,077	delete:I uploaded a photo Last edited by jmorris; August 23, 2009 at 10:12 AM.

August 19, 2009, 10:53 PM	#2
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,077	an m10 45 can shoot 9mm with a conversion but an m10 9 can't go 45.

August 19, 2009, 11:07 PM	#3
LoneStarWings Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2009 Location: TX Posts: 213	That's all right, I don't have any .45's and don't really plan too.....plus thinking of the cost dumping a mag of .45 ACP is somewhat disturbing. I know that sounds rediculous in the context of spending $3500+ on a weapon, but still..... I'm also thinking of putting a max 10 upper and some decent optics on it possibly.

August 20, 2009, 09:23 AM	#5
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,077	Just now went to your link, as you may know from your research, Texas Mac’s are the least desirable Mac’s there are. I picked up a NIB powder springs M10/9 to celebrate our new president last year for $2800 off of the classifieds at subguns.com. FWIW The powder springs come with a much better adjustable front sight.

August 20, 2009, 01:29 PM	#6
LoneStarWings Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2009 Location: TX Posts: 213	No, I didn't know that texas ones were the worst, thinks for the heads up though. I think I'd like to put one of the MAX 10 uppers on it, although I realize the wait time on those is months. With that said, does it make a difference that these were just Texas recievers that SWD purchased and welded? It sounds as if that increases their quality somewhat, if true. In any event thanks for the replies, and I appreciate all the info!

August 21, 2009, 09:18 AM	#8
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,077	It will be welded better but won’t use the same magazines that the powder springs, RPB or early SWD M10/9’s used. They were all double feed design and the SWD “over stamp” Texas Mac’s used single feed mags. There are other differences between them, the PS Mac’s have an internal latch for the take down pin and the bolt is milled much lighter thus increasing the rate of fire (for better or worse).

August 22, 2009, 11:10 AM	#11
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 442	I still have yet to find any cases where anyone has been inconvenienced in any way other than a slight delay due to a faulty trust. At all.

August 22, 2009, 09:22 PM	#12
LoneStarWings Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2009 Location: TX Posts: 213	Could anyone go into a little more detail on the advantages of the double feed bolt on a MAC? Do the double feed bolts use "double stack" mags similair to a pistol, or is does it mean something else?

August 22, 2009, 10:31 PM	#13
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 442	That's exactly what it means. Double-stack mags are easier to load, more reliable, and much easier to load. Also easier to load.

August 23, 2009, 10:09 AM	#15
jmorris Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2006 Posts: 3,077	All of the magazines are “double stack” double feed is different. A Glock (or most any other pistol that stagers the rounds in two columns) uses a double stack single feed magazine. An AR-15 on the other hand uses a double stack double feed magazine. You can tell the difference when you load them push straight down or push down and slide in and in the case of the M10-9 when you go to buy more of them. The two on the left are double feed one with an even number of rounds the other odd. The one on the right is single feed.

August 23, 2009, 11:01 AM	#16
PTK Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Posts: 442	I had a moment, there. I meant double-feed, not double-stack.